Saturday at Aintree

[Bob notacob]

I am 67 and way past the age when any sane mortal would look at those fences and yet I WOULD TAKE THEM ON IN A HEART BEAT . I would probably die . I can honestly say that I have never rode a race that put my horse in any thing but the most unforeseeable jeopardy. I am proud of this.

 

[Boulty]

I am rightly or wrongly of the opinion that generally in order to effect change and be considered successful (or to at least ignite discussion) protest has to be disruptive in some way and to cause inconvenience otherwise it's very easy to give the people doing it a pat on the head for their worthy, peaceful protesting but to actually ignore the issue they're trying to raise & allow life to carry on as normal. Do I agree with the absolute end goal of most animal rights groups? (usually an end to domestication of animals, although this does vary a little from group to group) No! But I do support their right to raise these issues in a way that is not causing direct & deliberate harm. (I know this last point could be debated in this case but given some of the descriptions on here of the handling of the delay & the eventual start of the race it does not sound like there was a robust contingency plan in place despite it being pretty widely known that there would be an attempt at a large scale protest which I feel should at least partly be the responsibility of the race organisers... hindsight is a wonderful thing but it seems like there were mistakes / things not thought through on both sides here)

There are many things about racing that are not how I would like to keep my own horse / that I do not think are ideal from a horse welfare POV but I do not feel that I would like to see it banned, rather a really honest review with input from those inside and outside the sport of life both on and off the racetrack. (I would love to see it become compulsory to offer some form of turnout every day to every horse even if just a few hours in a surfaced pen, I would also like to see if become compulsory for every horse to have the opportunity for appropriate social contact with other horses ideally through being turned out with them but if not then the ability to groom over a fence / over a stable wall (obviously this last option would not suit horses that like to guard their stable). I know there are some yards already offering this where they can & that is hopefully a really positive step. Would also love to not see them pushed hard so young & for more exploration of what early shoeing does to their feet / the potential benefits of delaying shoeing until older & having breaks from shoes (dare I even say the exploration of the idea of barefoot racing & what kinds of ground conditions & surfaces this might suit and be possible on). Having owned a horse whose absolute favourite activity that he truly came alive doing was hunting I can well understand how horses might enjoy many of the elements involved in racing (& how in many ways they might be happier in their job than a horse who has to perform their job on their own not as part of a herd) & I don't think the act of asking them to race is in itself cruel.

I think that high level (well tbh all levels of) equestrian sport is always going to have an element of risk for both horse and rider, I guess it's about doing what we can to reduce that risk to a level we can live with as being acceptable and making things as fair and pleasant for the horse as possible (Will admit that I don't agree with 24/7 stabling for none medical reasons for any horse even if they're being ridden several times a day & so I don't agree with the regimes at competition yards where this is the norm in any discipline)

 

[GSD Woman]

As for welfare, training methods and horse management practices...if 'living like a king' means being clapped up for 23 hours a day, denied freedom of movement and natural patterns of behaviour, animal wastage and the breaking and racing of 2 year olds, I'm glad none of my horses are kings....

I certainly agree with all of that. I do think racing on grass is better for the horses than on dirt. I wish that racing would at least wait until the horses are 3 to race.

 

[toppedoff]

2yo racing is what I dislike. I also think the BHA needs to put in requirements for suitable yards I.e turnout But that's too much money to loose. In the BHA trainers license and rules, they require you to live on site I'm pretty sure! Alot of Newmarket yards are concrete yards like Pond House that's up for sale right now. I know a few who do turnout like Amy Murphy.

Actually, I am curious to see how Harley Dunne does, he lost his yard and is currently renting out a field and is training from there. He is a p2p trainer, I see more T/O for jumpers than flat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648324560591175680

 

[Rowreach]

Scottish Grand National day, the presenters were talking earlier about the review into the GN after last week, and the feeling seems to be that more change will happen ...

In the meantime, RIP Oscar Elite, you beautiful horse, pts after breaking a leg at Ayr this afternoon.

 

[GSD Woman]

I saw a brief clip of the GN yesterday. WTF with one of the jockeys whaling on his mount with the whip? I thought that many hits was banned in the UK.

 

[humblepie]

They’ve just said some demonstrators at the Scottish National have been swiftly cleared. Three fallers at one fence all looked fine. Think the only fallers. So pleased for Christian Williams to have the winner.

Really sad about Oscar Elite and all involved with him.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Oscar Elite was so stunning looking

 

[Snow Falcon]

What a great win for Kittys Light. I hope that gives the Williams family something to enjoy.

 

[toppedoff]

Protestors made it to Ayr

 

[Rowreach]

They’ve just said some demonstrators at the Scottish National have been swiftly cleared. Three fallers at one fence all looked fine. Think the only fallers. So pleased for Christian Williams to have the winner.

Really sad about Oscar Elite and all involved with him.

Probably just as well so many were withdrawn because of the going.

Happy for Christian Williams, although I think they could have been less obtrusive with their post race questioning.

 

[humblepie]

Probably just as well so many were withdrawn because of the going.

Happy for Christian Williams, although I think they could have been less obtrusive with their post race questioning.

Yes I agree

 

[Gallop_Away]

Massive congratulations to Christian Williams and Jack Tudor. Kittys Light you amazing little horse!! Absolutely thrilled for you all

 

[Clodagh]

Oscar’s Elite must have fractured his leg at the fence he hit? Surely it shouldn’t have gone when he misstepped on the crossing?
He was beautiful, so very sad.

 

[minesadouble]

I've just heard that Mighty Thunder was lost to a heart attack while walking back to the stables. Just awful.
Condolences to all connections.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Gosh that's awful as I saw him running loose after the fall

Wonder if there's some sort of tech that could be developed that could pick up changes in heart rhythms that then alerts jockeys so they can pull up - not sure how quickly it goes from normal to deadly however
Just thinking I've seen a comment on the football forum I'm on about how someone's smart watch told them their heart was doing something odd because of their excitement at the game - if human smart watches can pick up changes in rythm could we do the same for horses?

 

[tristar]

Gosh that's awful as I saw him running loose after the fall

Wonder if there's some sort of tech that could be developed that could pick up changes in heart rhythms that then alerts jockeys so they can pull up - not sure how quickly it goes from normal to deadly however
Just thinking I've seen a comment on the football forum I'm on about how someone's smart watch told them their heart was doing something odd because of their excitement at the game - if human smart watches can pick up changes in rythm could we do the same for horses?

good notion

 

[TheMule]

What annoyed me about Oscar Elite's pointless death was he had made a bad mistake and clearly wasn’t travelling. He's a top class horse so that should signal to the jockey that it wasn’t his day and to pull up. He had several more fences to make that judgement call, the horse didn’t pick back up.

 

[Clodagh]

What annoyed me about Oscar Elite's pointless death was he had made a bad mistake and clearly wasn’t travelling. He's a top class horse so that should signal to the jockey that it wasn’t his day and to pull up. He had several more fences to make that judgement call, the horse didn’t pick back up.

I always think HC is a really good, sympathetic jockey but I agree. I still suspect the damage was already done though.

 

[Clodagh]

Indeed. Our experienced HHOer who was shown on the telly leading up a winner at Aintree the day before the GN gets not much over the minimum wage.

I’m not sure that publicising individual people’s earnings is very ethical.

 

[fankino04]

What annoyed me about Oscar Elite's pointless death was he had made a bad mistake and clearly wasn’t travelling. He's a top class horse so that should signal to the jockey that it wasn’t his day and to pull up. He had several more fences to make that judgement call, the horse didn’t pick back up.

And that's where I worry that money ( both betting and prize and cost of ownership) will always influence decisions more than welfare. How many jockeys on well fancied horses will feel empowered to pull them up saying they just didn't think the horse was "feeling it that day", too many people ready to accuse them of race fixing I fear, too many owners or trainers willing to drop them for not trying, too much chance of a ban for not trying etc.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Exactly, they keep making them go on occasions it would be better to save them for another day. I'd rather one pulled up to prevent risk of injury, and be kept safe than keep going with potentially fatal consequences - I don't like SJ but sometimes people retire after having a pole down as it's not their day and it's not worth continuing

Even MT didn't look to be travelling from the off, but I think he is known for racing lazily and had got back with the pack so I don't know

It really annoyed me seeing tailed off horses continue in the Topham and GN - they clearly weren't placing yet kept going - maybe someone needs to be out there flagging them to pull up and the jockeys receive a ban due to having to be told to pull up rather than doing it themselves

OE was such a stunning horse, it makes it worse his death could have been avoided by pulling him up

 

[Clodagh]

OE was such a stunning horse, it makes it worse his death could have been avoided by pulling him up

Even plain brown ones should be pulled up if they are struggling. Which I thinkhope you meant!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’m not sure that publicising individual people’s earnings is very ethical.

She's posted freely about it on here before.

 

[palo1]

good notion

Ride-on heart rate monitors are in quite common use in some equestrian sports but I imagine that there would be issues using them in racing and the reality of race riding may well make them dangerous or very difficult to use during a race. Heart attacks happen sadly, in all sorts of situations. I am really sad that there were more deaths in racing this weekend; not good at all.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Even plain brown ones should be pulled up if they are struggling. Which I thinkhope you meant!

Yes obviously, hence why I was annoyed by them continuing in the GN when tailed off

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Its very sad to lose Mighty. He has been a great horse for the yard and wasn't far off retiring to go home with his lass. Unseating his jockey had nothing to do with how he died. He was merrily running loose and came back with the others to be caught and brought but sadly he never made it back to his stable. He has always had a tendency to drop himself out the back then run on past horses.

Heart monitors on when racing isn't really viable as they will always beep up with a problem the second the horses Heart gets put under pressure at the end of a race or if the horse takes a misstep, goes too long or chips in short it could easily flag up with a blip. Jockeys wouldn't be able to keep an eye on it on a watch whilst racing. The cars following wouldn't be able to flag down the horses as the jockeys wouldn't be able to hear them at speed. Same for ground staff. If you flagged them down for every blip you would never have another race finish. If the horse is having a Heart attack then at that stage nothing will stop it from happening and nothing will prevent the end result.

 

[splashgirl45]

So sorry Elf, I was hoping it wasn’t true , such a shame for the yard and for his lass.

 

[tristar]

Ride-on heart rate monitors are in quite common use in some equestrian sports but I imagine that there would be issues using them in racing and the reality of race riding may well make them dangerous or very difficult to use during a race. Heart attacks happen sadly, in all sorts of situations. I am really sad that there were more deaths in racing this weekend; not good at all.

that is why i said good notion, and not that it would be likely to be practicable.

i saw another die, broken neck or back at fairyhouse in bad, deep going

too many, tragic, i agree

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

that is why i said good notion, and not that it would be likely to be practicable.

i saw another die, broken neck or back at fairyhouse in bad, deep going

too many, tragic, i agree

There are so many legs snapping on the flat as well I don't recall it being that frequent in previous years, definitely seems more a thing the last couple of years