Saturday at Aintree

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I'm not entirely sure the delay contributed, more the fact the field could do with going down to 30, they always charge the first, but if they had more space, would they do that? I don't recall them really charging like that in any other races, bar big field ones to get a position? I'd say the charging is only really noticeable in nationals, with the bigger fields?

I'd keep the new core but make the fences bigger, make them sit back and jump "up" rather than long and flat and make them back off a bit

 

[sakura]

I have worked in racing my whole life. There are lots of aspects about it to love. There are lots of aspects about it to hate. I would never try to persuade anyone to think differently to what they believe.

Life is all about balancing the scales in your own world. It's a scale that gets tipped side to side in my world all the time. Yes I am delighted we won the national but I am also absolutely gutted that Josh is going home with an empty box to an empty stable. In an ideal world every horse would go home to its stable every day. But the world is not ideal and all we can do is limit the damage we, as humans, do every single day.

I value your response, thank you. I definitely agree with your last sentence in particular.

 

[AmyMay]

May I say, Elf, how immensely gracious you are. What a classy post.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Sandstone1]

I watched for the first time since dark ivy died, the older ones on here will know the name, he was a beautiful grey horse and seeing that stopped me watching live… I wish I hadn’t seen the beginning of the race today and won’t now ever watch it live again . I still think it’s too many runners and there needs to be a way of making them go slower at the beginning, maybe the fences need to be bigger at the beginning so the jockeys and the horses respect them a bit more … I would think the delay didn’t help either

I remember Dark Ivy. That was the last time I ever bet on the Grand national. I was a teenager and all of us in the family used to bet on the national. Dark Ivy was beautiful and I had my each way bet on him. Sadly he was killed and that put me off the National and racing in general really.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Where will be the best place to find an update on the 2 injured?

 

[toppedoff]

Where will be the best place to find an update on the 2 injured?

Twitter is where I go

 

[meandmyself]

I've just watched it, amateur footage taken from by the jump. It looks like they rushed to cover the horse up with rug/tarpaulin? Would you do that if you were giving it time or is that what you'd do if it was instant and you wanted to cover it up so people don't keep taking pictures. .

I'm not anti racing but can't watch the national anymore. I looked it up hoping to hear they'd all come back safe.

The horse was dead as soon as he hit the ground imo. Absolutely terrible.

 

[Sandstone1]

It comes down to the massive question of do we have the right to use animals in sport and entertainment? I do ride but I honestly do question more and more if its right we do so. Maybe its a age thing but I really do question how we use and abuse animals.

 

[meandmyself]

Sorry for swearing, have reported my post.

 

[nagblagger]

Can't you go in and edit post yourself?

 

[meandmyself]

Can't you go in and edit post yourself?

Thanks - I've been on another forum where you can't edit!

 

[teapot]

Point out where I said cruelty, neglect and barbaric treatment *only* happens in racing? I'll wait...

It was the inference that it only happens in racing because of the money involved allowing it to happen that annoyed me. Appreciate you didn't specifically say it only happens in racing, but sometimes people bang on about how bad racing is, while never ever looking at he bigger picture and that annoys me somewhat.

As @Elf On A Shelf says, it's a balancing act of some every decreasing in sixel scales.

Personally I can perhaps accept injuries or worse on a racecourse more because I know those horses will receive excellent treatment within minutes of it happening and that reduces the suffering involved. Unlike your every day horse who may have to wait 30mins, an hour for a vet to arrive...

 

[splashgirl45]

I remember Dark Ivy. That was the last time I ever bet on the Grand national. I was a teenager and all of us in the family used to bet on the national. Dark Ivy was beautiful and I had my each way bet on him. Sadly he was killed and that put me off the National and racing in general really.

I didn’t bet on him but chose him as my winner, just looked it up it was 1987. It didn’t put me off racing in general , just the national ,

 

[TPO]

It was the inference that it only happens in racing because of the money involved allows it to happen

Where did I infere it "only" happens in racing?

I said racing was allowed to continue because of money. That is totally different from what you are trying to insinuate that I posted.

 

[Sandstone1]

Horses are killed at many race meetings. The national just seems more brutal. I really think some of the comments made by the Itv commentators should be addressed. The focus on how well the horses are looked after and accidents happen in other sports were ridiculous.

 

[RachelFerd]

Yes, because every other aspect of the horse industry has horses being kept in pristine conditions, with their physical and mental welfare attended to 100% correctly 100% of the time. I've seen everything and more than what @RachelFerd describes in some riding schools, but no one ever seems to say 'ban riding schools' do they? Perspective, it goes a long way.

I'm not suggesting those things don't happen elsewhere - but riding schools don't tend to go around boasting about their horses receiving "6 star treatment" as justifications for their working lives. It's constant disconnect between saying that they're treated like kings, and then (I suppose literally treating them like kings) by making them live socially isolated and restrictive lives in stables full of fluffy shavings but not much in the way of freedom.

 

[toppedoff]

Protestors are now sitting on the M57
Same ones from the GN

 

[Mrs B]

May I say, Elf, how immensely gracious you are. What a classy post.

Agree.
Classy, realistic and balanced.

 

[sakura]

The only fair comparison of racing with other sports are to other animal sports. You cannot really compare the morals of human sports with animal sports.

It’s also not appropriate. Human deaths in F1 were also unacceptable when they were frequent.

 

[SantaVera]

It comes down to the massive question of do we have the right to use animals in sport and entertainment? I do ride but I honestly do question more and more if its right we do so. Maybe its a age thing but I really do question how we use and abuse animals.

This. Rip all the poor dead horses. Hoping the injured will be ok. I feel it's so wrong what we do to animals in the name of sport.

 

[teapot]

I'm not suggesting those things don't happen elsewhere - but riding schools don't tend to go around boasting about their horses receiving "6 star treatment" as justifications for their working lives. It's constant disconnect between saying that they're treated like kings, and then (I suppose literally treating them like kings) by making them live socially isolated and restrictive lives in stables full of fluffy shavings but not much in the way of freedom.

That I do get One person's treated like a king could be very different to someone else's too. Do race yards have the luxury to treat horses as individuals? They should do, but space, facilities, time etc all factor into that, and perhaps could be changed for the better, who knows. (There are RSs who talk the talk but don't walk the walk too, but maybe don't use the words treated like kings)

@Elf On A Shelf's update on Apple on Facebook this morning shows it can be done!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Horses are killed at many race meetings. The national just seems more brutal. I really think some of the comments made by the Itv commentators should be addressed. The focus on how well the horses are looked after and accidents happen in other sports were ridiculous.

I think they really didn't help themselves at all. Yes they can die in the fields, but surely there is statistically higher risk doing activities such as this. When I had a horse, the activities were banded according to risk level, things like eventing were in one of the higher categories - I know one died xc recently.

Also the comparisons to F1 and marathon running in particular were ridiculous. I agree F1 has made considerable safety changes, and 10 years ago Grosjean wasn't surviving that crash, BUT it's easier to make a car safer in which a person goes. Also the humans CHOOSE to be an F1 driver/ marathon runner and are aware of the risks involved. If drivers were still dying, would F1 be right under the spotlight or even still going? I'm not sure. Also marathon running?! I know people collapse and can die but do they sustain fatal injuries during them?

I do watch racing, but I think the analogies used by the ITV team were poor. Also, yes I know they get the best care, but in part of this is it because they need to be in the best condition to run? Same as all sports people. You have that photo of GE taking his call on the dead horse.

I really don't know the answer, and do watch racing so it's hard.

OH asked me during the protests if I think it will be banned. I think not any time soon, but yes was my answer. Especially with the technology nowadays, a lot of people enjoyed the virtual GN. It doesn't matter if the pixel horses fall, it was even funny watching them refuse. People can bet on that.

I am not saying there aren't other welfare issues, I think other things should be done with all these poorly bred gypsy cobs than them clogging up rescue centres so I'm by no means a fluffy bunny, but it's a separate issue, the discussion here is about the GN etc.

I also thought ITVs coverage was generally poor. Not enough of the horses or visits to their stables. No past winners parade or the ROR parade showing them trained for different sports including how versatile are - Elf's photos were brilliant, but why weren't they given air time? If the parades were before you came on air, Just record them and incorporate it into the footage. But no we saw very little of the horses, yet they kept on about welfare.... Show a mock up of the new core of the fences Vs the old ones. Show the post race care of the horses. Yet we just saw lots of social stable... There was something they said where they really contradicted themselves but I can't remember what.

 

[pistolpete]

I agree that racing is more about money than good welfare. However the people at the coal face like Elf know and care for the individual animals to the best of their ability. They are treated better than many many domestic horses. I like the phrase Els used. Balance. A very tricky thing to achieve. RIP beautiful animals.

 

[toppedoff]

Elf, you're a brilliant ambassador to the sport. Your response is really well put and like it very much. LR + team is amazing, what a lovely trainer to be with

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Agree Elf's yard is great for social media and one of the few I follow. Jim Boyle is another that springs to mind as having a page dedicated to their ex racehorses, I think David Pipe and the Skelton's usually do well by their retirees too.

It's the little things too, you see Elf's yard always instantly getting nosebands undone, water on the horse etc, same with the Skelton's, unfortunately others are always somewhat lax!

 

[toppedoff]

Cape Gentleman

 

[Wyatt1928]

Sorry for the uninformed question, but what is the procedure for loose horses - I noticed there were three? at the front of the field at one point?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Cape Gentleman

Hopefully something treatable, but concerning he needs hospital, hopefully something fixable

Looking for an update on Recite a Prayer, I thought he was ok as he was one of those running loose on the inside, although one did get knocked over when they crashed through the rail. I saw some outriders on the other side of the course, but it's not the first occasion some have got into the inside by the vehicles, perhaps something needs to be in place to corrall those getting onto the inside - not sure if catching pens would be the answer as would they encourage run outs as there needs to be a funnel for them to run into. I did see a lady try to herd them off but quite wisely got out the way as they weren't for stopping.

I'm surprised they haven't looked at reducing the field size, it's the one thing they haven't tried.

I think yards should need to update more around horses who are injured in falls - hopefully Shark will update following CG hospital visit - it shouldn't be hidden what an outcome is.

 

[scats]

I haven’t watched the last couple of years. I used to enjoy watching the National but I think my views are changing about it. Maybe I’m getting soft in my old age, I don’t know. My mums family lived in Aintree (still do) so the National is something we’ve always watched as it’s kind of our ‘local’ course and we regularly drive down Melling Road. In fact, I was there two weeks ago watching as they prepared the course, but I remember a horse flapping about on the floor a few years ago, think it had broken its neck. I couldn’t get that image out of my head for weeks.
My brother was working the National, as always. Aintree is a massive site and there are loads of places to access the course away from the main areas so it doesn’t surprise me that protestors got on.

 

[RachelFerd]

That I do get One person's treated like a king could be very different to someone else's too. Do race yards have the luxury to treat horses as individuals? They should do, but space, facilities, time etc all factor into that, and perhaps could be changed for the better, who knows. (There are RSs who talk the talk but don't walk the walk too, but maybe don't use the words treated like kings)

@Elf On A Shelf's update on Apple on Facebook this morning shows it can be done!

My background was working Epsom and Newmarket, so more flat than jumps. Flat would be more likely to treat them like a factory production line, but the variance between yards would be huge - with every version of good and bad out there. There are probably more jumps trainers out there doing a good job of treating them like individuals - but I find the falls situation to be just too dangerous to be able to stomach it. But equally, can't stand the 2yo racing on the flat side. I think there's still a space for horse racing in the modern world - but it seriously needs to sort it's act out (and is so reluctant to).