Saturday at Aintree

[Gamebird]

Hi all, I can confirm that Recite A Prayer has gone to hospital to receive further treatment for an injury (not a leg injury). He will stay over here until he's fixed. I'm afraid the yard don't really do social media.

I haven't heard any more about Johnny Burke, but I hope he is ok, he's the nicest lad.

I have some thoughts about how the delay impacted the messy start, and as someone leading a horse up I believe it did, but will leave them for tomorrow as have just got in from Aintree now and the priority is sleep!

It was a worthy winner, congratulations to all involved. If the trophy couldn't go back with us then I wanted it to go to Scotland!

 

[GTRJazz]

I would like to see breeding changed to give race horses more bone. it would slow them down a bit but they could withstand a fall

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

On Twitter, so not sure how true - apparently there was an "incredibly serious" incident as they came back over the Melling road involving the loose horses which the TV cameras didn't pick up?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Hi all, I can confirm that Recite A Prayer has gone to hospital to receive further treatment for an injury (not a leg injury). He will stay over here until he's fixed. I'm afraid the yard don't really do social media.

I haven't heard any more about Johnny Burke, but I hope he is ok, he's the nicest lad.

I have some thoughts about how the delay impacted the messy start, and as someone leading a horse up I believe it did, but will leave them for tomorrow as have just got in from Aintree now and the priority is sleep!

It was a worthy winner, congratulations to all involved. If the trophy couldn't go back with us then I wanted it to go to Scotland!

Thank you for letting us know, please could you keep us updated as to whether he's ok, hoping it's something that's fixable

 

[Jellymoon]

It comes down to the massive question of do we have the right to use animals in sport and entertainment? I do ride but I honestly do question more and more if its right we do so. Maybe its an age thing but I really do question how we use and abuse animals.

I am starting to do this too.

 

[Miss_Millie]

It's been said before but death is not the worst fate for a horse by a long way.

If we could do just one thing for horse welfare the thing that would have by far the biggest impact would be to ban keeping leisure horses.
But you won't see many arguing for that.

Or maybe there needs to be deep systemic change about how we view and treat horses as a whole, regardless as to whether or not they are used for 'leisure' or sport.

Horse sport is almost always exploitative by nature - the human ego, desire to win and money aspect will always trump welfare. Horses cannot consent to participate.

There are undoubtedly many ignorant leisure horse owners, but there are also thousands of us who are committed to providing our horses the best possible life, endeavouring to provide them with an enriching species-appropriate lifestyle first and foremost, before our own aspirations and desires even come into the mix.

Surely 'professional' horse people who work in the industry all started off as leisure owners/riders, and novice horse people learn from these industry professionals. In which case, you should divert your criticism to the people who are setting a bad example by treating their horses like disposable sports equipment.

 

[Jellymoon]

Horses by and large are a domesticated animal, if they are not used for sport or leisure then the vast majority enter the food chain.

Obviously no one wants horses to die in the pursuit of sport and it is awful when it does happen but personally I’d rather that horses remain part of our sport and leisure with its risk than becoming solely used within the food chain.

I’m not really sure I understand this argument. If they weren’t used for sport or leisure, there simply wouldn’t be as many bred. We wouldn’t just start eating them.

 

[Nicnac]

I know I'm very late to cop on but didn't see full results as turned off TV so as not to have to watch the rerun, but just looked at full results and only 17 horses/39 finished.

That's 22 DNF or just 43% of the field that did finish. It really wasn't pretty to put it mildly. Less runners and move first fence back out.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I think they certainly need to reduce the field size to 30. Keep the new entry requirements and have only the best of the best get in.

I'd be very interested to know stats for:

1) if the field were to be cut to 30, how many of the winners wouldn't have lined up?

2) of the fatalities that have occurred, how many have been on circuit one (where there's more horses) Vs circuit 2 where they've thinned out?

I can remember someone saying in the old days you'd hunt the first circuit and hope to survive, I think Ruby eluded to it in his analysis before the race - now they go faster from the off.

I agree with suggestions to move the start back a bit, maybe having them come round a bend to steady them a bit. I don't think having them come in to line up then go back then come in again helps and probably adds to them being wound up - but can't think of a solution for this bar stalls like on the flat but that would surely be impractical. It would stop all the false starts too.

 

[teapot]

I know I'm very late to cop on but didn't see full results as turned off TV so as not to have to watch the rerun, but just looked at full results and only 17 horses/39 finished.

That's 22 DNF or just 43% of the field that did finish. It really wasn't pretty to put it mildly. Less runners and move first fence back out.

Of those 39 starters:

Four fell (including Hill Sixteen)
11 unseated riders
7 pulled up

 

[criso]

The biggest difference between racing and any other equine event no matter how high the level is the TV coverage. Racing is free for everyone in Britain to watch every Saturday on TV. Very few other Equestrian sports are shown on free to view TV. If they are it's once or twice a year and usually slimmed right down, not often live and then they show the high lights not every nitty, gritty bit.

Also sheer numbers. If you look at it on a percentage, the number of horse deaths will be greater. That means statistics can be published saying X horses died last year in racing that would be higher than other equestrian sports.

 

[Kadastorm]

Hi all, I can confirm that Recite A Prayer has gone to hospital to receive further treatment for an injury (not a leg injury). He will stay over here until he's fixed. I'm afraid the yard don't really do social media.

I haven't heard any more about Johnny Burke, but I hope he is ok, he's the nicest lad.

I have some thoughts about how the delay impacted the messy start, and as someone leading a horse up I believe it did, but will leave them for tomorrow as have just got in from Aintree now and the priority is sleep!

It was a worthy winner, congratulations to all involved. If the trophy couldn't go back with us then I wanted it to go to Scotland!

Thank you for the update. Really hope Jonathan is ok get some sleep and it will be good to read your thoughts tomorrow.

 

[bluehorse]

I hate the Grand National with a passion. I dislike racing as a whole and am starting to feel that way about all top equine sport unfortunately, and the way it filters down to everyday owners and how they ride and keep their horses. I include myself in that statement. Our relationship with horses saddens me deeply in lots of ways, I’m not sure if I’ll have another once mine is gone.

What I really struggle with is the counter arguments that come up time and time again that just try to deflect the criticisms. It’s better than Appleby, riding schools, leisure horses, all of those have been mentioned in this thread. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Offsetting one form of abuse against another doesn’t make it all ok. And I’m not just talking about racing here, I’m talking about all equestrian disciplines. If you criticise anything you get shot down and told your argument is invalid because there are worse things happening elsewhere. Oh that makes it ok then? I doubt if many of those protesters today were even aware Appleby exists, but that’s actually fine, they were protesting about racing. At a race. The biggest race of the year. Seems pretty appropriate to me. They’re already being blamed for the death at the first. Sorry but the only people responsible for that are the ones that put it on the track.

We all have to take a very long hard look at ourselves. Social license is a hot topic and it’s not going away. I think that’s a good thing.

I’m glad there was a protest today. Let’s all stop covering up what we do to these animals and start facing up to it. I don’t know what the answers are, and I’m guilty of a lot of things myself when I look back at my life with horses. I’m not the best rider and owner in the world. We all need to do better for these horses.

 

[Clodagh]

I don't want to make this conversation even more difficult but is the GN or racing 'worse' than shooting a load of beautiful birds out of the sky for fun/income? Where do we find the balance in our relationship with animals - is deliberately killing something better or worse than incidentally killing something in the pursuit of other goals? (racing/eventing/breeding/farming/construction/travel) Does it matter what our intention is, or is the outcome the defining factor? Does the life of the animal under our care have any significance in relation to the risk of death? (eg as in high welfare vs intensive/low welfare farming systems, racing etc).

Whatever we do with and to animals needs to be done as professionally and properly as possible. Yesterday was not. Horses die racing every day but most races are not just a manic stampede with an enormous amount of horses.
The GN was better when it was slower. Elf was saying the fences at Newcastle are much tougher, the Eider doesn’t have the number of fatalities of the GN.
As humans we are always going to exploit other animals for our own ends. But we need to do it properly.

I do see the long delay and the mad scurry to get them started was really bad. I don’t remember the last few years being visually so awful.

 

[scats]

I think, at the very least, they need to reduce the field to 30.
That first couple of fences is often carnage until you lose some horses and it starts to thin out.
Reducing the number of starters would at least show something is being done to reduce the number of falls/possible fatalities, and also keep it safer for the jockeys.

 

[Sanversera]

I really dislike the grand national, I think it's cruel and should be banned infact I think all horse racing needs a serious rethink, the use of whips, running horses until they are covered in sweat,how can that be right? Hate it,poor poor horses.

 

[fankino04]

What gets me about racing ( and I'm really conflicted about it as I love it but also really hate some parts), is that the simple changes that could be made to help horses welfare just won't because of human greed. I say this thinking mostly about how young flat horses are started, it would be much better for them if the classics were for 5 year olds so then there's no reason to be breaking in yearlings to race them at 2, but when someone has spent so much on a foal they don't want to wait to get that money or fun back from them, heaven forbid they would risk expensive 2 year old colts out in a field where they could be injured instead of on a track earning money and getting set for a very lucrative stud life.

 

[ycbm]

To go back to one one my often repeated and favourite comparisons. If there were as many on-course deaths per 100 starters in eventing as there are in jump racing, there would be at least one horse death for every event with two days of ODE competition. Multiple event horses dying every summer weekend. I for one don't believe eventing would continue to exist if that was the case. The danger for NH horses is completely disproportionate to any other horse sport.
.

 

[ycbm]

Derek gave him a brilliant ride and the total care he gave Corach after finishing was brilliant to see. Calling for bucket after bucket of water showed he had Corach's welfare at heart

This quote is from the congratulations thread. Congratulations which are, in the whole context of the achievement, well deserved.

But this way of convincing itself that racing has that it has the best interests of the horse at heart doesn't stand up, I'm afraid. Anyone who truly had the horse's best interests at heart wouldn't put it in the situation where it needed gallon after gallon of water thrown over it to make sure it didn't die of heat stroke.
.

 

[Clodagh]

This quote is from the congratulations thread. Congratulations which are, in the whole context of the achievement, well deserved.

But this way of convincing itself that racing has that it has the best interests of the horse at heart doesn't stand up, I'm afraid. Anyone who truly had the horse's best interests at heart wouldn't put it in the situation where it needed gallon after gallon of water thrown over it to make sure it didn't die of heat stroke.
.

I think most horses are cooled down with plenty of water after exertion. I used to do mine even after a hack. I did wish they didn’t tip it over his ears though.
And visually tucking the noseband in would have looked nicer as having water in his ears was certainly contributing to him throwing his head.

 

[bonny]

The throwing around of numerous water buckets as soon as the horses pull up is a PR excerise not something called for by the jockey. I actually thought poor horse as he went straight from galloping to having water poured on his head.

 

[Clodagh]

The throwing around of numerous water buckets as soon as the horses pull up is a PR excerise not something called for by the jockey. I actually thought poor horse as he went straight from galloping to having water poured on his head.

DR looked keen to use the water. I think pouring it on them is a good thing, just not straight over their heads.

 

[Sanversera]

I hate the Grand National with a passion. I dislike racing as a whole and am starting to feel that way about all top equine sport unfortunately, and the way it filters down to everyday owners and how they ride and keep their horses. I include myself in that statement. Our relationship with horses saddens me deeply in lots of ways, I’m not sure if I’ll have another once mine is gone.

What I really struggle with is the counter arguments that come up time and time again that just try to deflect the criticisms. It’s better than Appleby, riding schools, leisure horses, all of those have been mentioned in this thread. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Offsetting one form of abuse against another doesn’t make it all ok. And I’m not just talking about racing here, I’m talking about all equestrian disciplines. If you criticise anything you get shot down and told your argument is invalid because there are worse things happening elsewhere. Oh that makes it ok then? I doubt if many of those protesters today were even aware Appleby exists, but that’s actually fine, they were protesting about racing. At a race. The biggest race of the year. Seems pretty appropriate to me. They’re already being blamed for the death at the first. Sorry but the only people responsible for that are the ones that put it on the track.

We all have to take a very long hard look at ourselves. Social license is a hot topic and it’s not going away. I think that’s a good thing.

I’m glad there was a protest today. Let’s all stop covering up what we do to these animals and start facing up to it. I don’t know what the answers are, and I’m guilty of a lot of things myself when I look back at my life with horses. I’m not the best rider and owner in the world. We all need to do better for these horses.

Great post and I agree 100% wholeheartedly.

 

[ycbm]

I think most horses are cooled down with plenty of water after exertion. I used to do mine even after a hack. I did with they didn’t tip it over his ears though.
And visually tucking the noseband in would have looked nicer as having water in his ears was certainly contributing to him throwing his head.

I wasn't questioning the use of water. I was questioning describing that as evidence of how much anyone cares for a horse.
.

 

[Supertrooper]

I hate the Grand National with a passion. I dislike racing as a whole and am starting to feel that way about all top equine sport unfortunately, and the way it filters down to everyday owners and how they ride and keep their horses. I include myself in that statement. Our relationship with horses saddens me deeply in lots of ways, I’m not sure if I’ll have another once mine is gone.

What I really struggle with is the counter arguments that come up time and time again that just try to deflect the criticisms. It’s better than Appleby, riding schools, leisure horses, all of those have been mentioned in this thread. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Offsetting one form of abuse against another doesn’t make it all ok. And I’m not just talking about racing here, I’m talking about all equestrian disciplines. If you criticise anything you get shot down and told your argument is invalid because there are worse things happening elsewhere. Oh that makes it ok then? I doubt if many of those protesters today were even aware Appleby exists, but that’s actually fine, they were protesting about racing. At a race. The biggest race of the year. Seems pretty appropriate to me. They’re already being blamed for the death at the first. Sorry but the only people responsible for that are the ones that put it on the track.

We all have to take a very long hard look at ourselves. Social license is a hot topic and it’s not going away. I think that’s a good thing.

I’m glad there was a protest today. Let’s all stop covering up what we do to these animals and start facing up to it. I don’t know what the answers are, and I’m guilty of a lot of things myself when I look back at my life with horses. I’m not the best rider and owner in the world. We all need to do better for these horses.

Very well written response

I’ve never liked the GN and never really understood how you could put your horse into it knowing realistically there was a good chance it may not come back

Synchronised was the horse that totally finished me off, that horse didn’t ‘owe’ anybody anything and yet it was put in the GN and then what proceeded to happen upset me hugely, especially because he’d unseated rider before start and still was made to continue

I’m finding more and more that I struggle to watch horse sport including my absolute love which is eventing. Badminton last year was such a hard watch and NW fall so awful that I just now don’t think I could go or watch

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

The biggest difference between racing and any other equine event no matter how high the level is the TV coverage. Racing is free for everyone in Britain to watch every Saturday on TV. Very few other Equestrian sports are shown on free to view TV. If they are it's once or twice a year and usually slimmed right down, not often live and then they show the high lights not every nitty, gritty bit.

That's an interesting point considering what happened to Modern Pentathlon when it enjoyed a large audience through being an Olympic sport.

 

[Rowreach]

Chucking water into fine, non fluffy TB ears is adding extreme discomfort for a horse that's already experiencing multiple physiological sensations. Rapid cooling shouldn't involve additional stress.

The carnage of the GN is a numbers and hype thing. Other races are run over the National fences but the fields are smaller so the early fallers are fewer, and the races are shorter so there's less likelihood of falls and injuries caused by tiredness. But hey, the spectacle isn't as great and the bloodlust not so mighty

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I know I'm very late to cop on but didn't see full results as turned off TV so as not to have to watch the rerun, but just looked at full results and only 17 horses/39 finished.

That's 22 DNF or just 43% of the field that did finish. It really wasn't pretty to put it mildly. Less runners and move first fence back out.

I don't think you can use attrition in this race. Far too many jockeys will see they have 10 good horses in front of them, a number of fences to go and decide it isn't in anyone's interest to finish.

This race isn't used to prepare for another so there's no value in finishing down the order with an exhausted horse.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Derek didn't intentionally pour water into Corach's ears. It wasn't even ment to go over his head, it was go up the top of his neck and flow back down in. Corach just moved his head at the wrong time. We would never, ever do anything to his ears as he has aural plaque and doesn't like them being touched at the best of times.b

 

[Rowreach]

I wasn't questioning the use of water. I was questioning describing that as evidence of how much anyone cares for a horse.
.

I distinctly remember that when they started chucking water at horses in and on the way to the winner's enclosure, instead of sponging them off and sticking a string vest on them, it was publicly hailed by commentators as a way of showing the viewers (critics) that horse welfare was a thing