Saturday at Aintree

[toppedoff]

Hopefully something treatable, but concerning he needs hospital, hopefully something fixable

Looking for an update on Recite a Prayer, I thought he was ok as he was one of those running loose on the inside, although one did get knocked over when they crashed through the rail. I saw some outriders on the other side of the course, but it's not the first occasion some have got into the inside by the vehicles, perhaps something needs to be in place to corrall those getting onto the inside - not sure if catching pens would be the answer as would they encourage run outs as there needs to be a funnel for them to run into. I did see a lady try to herd them off but quite wisely got out the way as they weren't for stopping.

I'm surprised they haven't looked at reducing the field size, it's the one thing they haven't tried.

I think yards should need to update more around horses who are injured in falls - hopefully Shark will update following CG hospital visit - it shouldn't be hidden what an outcome is.

Hope we got an answer soon. Concerns for Jockey, Johnny Burke are also on the rise

 

[toppedoff]

My background was working Epsom and Newmarket, so more flat than jumps. Flat would be more likely to treat them like a factory production line, but the variance between yards would be huge - with every version of good and bad out there. There are probably more jumps trainers out there doing a good job of treating them like individuals - but I find the falls situation to be just too dangerous to be able to stomach it. But equally, can't stand the 2yo racing on the flat side. I think there's still a space for horse racing in the modern world - but it seriously needs to sort it's act out (and is so reluctant to).

I feel people in racing just don't like change? People were absolutely mad when the Jockey Club announced their dress code changes saying that was a vital part of the experience as it was proper. I'm not keen on 2yo racing at all or keen on 30 horses racing at the same time in the national. I feel racing needs to change to be more accommodating to modern welfare or it won't last very long

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I feel people in racing just don't like change? People were absolutely mad when the Jockey Club announced their dress code changes saying that was a vital part of the experience as it was proper. I'm not keen on 2yo racing at all or keen on 30 horses racing at the same time in the national. I feel racing needs to change to be more accommodating to modern welfare or it won't last very long

Same with the whip rules and all the jockeys and trainers moaning about it

 

[Miss_Millie]

I think it's very telling when 'come back safe' is plastered all over the comment section of every racing yard with a horse entering the Grand National.

If the risk of *not* coming home safe is really so high, how can it be justified to put those horses in this position at all?

Very disgusted by some of the comments wishing harm upon the protestors who were ultimately trying to prevent these deaths from happening.

RIP to the three horses who had no choice but to run.

 

[toppedoff]

Same with the whip rules and all the jockeys and trainers moaning about it

Racing is a sport that hasn't really changed at all, also racing has generations who continue on their racing interest whether they are owners, jockeys or employees of the sport. I wonder if when it's the young folks now take over will be more happy for a change of push more for a change?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I remember Native Rivers owners would never let him run in the GN, even though he could well have won, because they didn't like the race

 

[nagblagger]

A favour - as i am not on facebook, twitter etc please could any updates keep being posted on here about the horses and jockeys alike..
many thanks.

 

[Maddie Moo]

Sorry for the uninformed question, but what is the procedure for loose horses - I noticed there were three? at the front of the field at one point?

There are pens around the course that the horses can run into and they are then penned in there until the outriders collect them and return them to their grooms. Unfortunately not all the horses get the memo! Also the fences can be bypassed by the loose horses if they choose not to jump them. They all get caught eventually, the ones that run with the field will be rounded up at the end of the race.

Here is Eva’s Oskar being brought back in.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1647305739537469444

 

[toppedoff]

A favour - as i am not on facebook, twitter etc please could any updates keep being posted on here about the horses and jockeys alike..
many thanks.

Again, I am just having twitter but this is the most recent in terms of Recite

 

[toppedoff]

Sorry for being all up in the thread, I've been quiet on twitter as I just don't want to be involved with those lot - it isn't like here on HHO where you can have a healthy debate or share an opinion. I'll keep checking twitter though to find updates, usually where trainers first post for updates

 

[Honeylight]

My thoughts about today's race:
I am one of the older members, I remember Arkle running and I remember the Duchess of Westminster refused to run his at Aintree.
I can't help thinking that the the delay could have added to the death of Hill Sixteen, who looked to have a heart attack.
It looked a messy race and was not good to watch. Some really horrific falls. The ITV coverage was poor, Ed Chamberlain was talking rubbish as usual. They should have considered the possibility of a demonstration and delay, it had been on news channels and prepared for it.
I think it was been another own goal of racing.

 

[Kunoichi73]

I haven’t watched the last couple of years. I used to enjoy watching the National but I think my views are changing about it. Maybe I’m getting soft in my old age, I don’t know. My mums family lived in Aintree (still do) so the National is something we’ve always watched as it’s kind of our ‘local’ course and we regularly drive down Melling Road. In fact, I was there two weeks ago watching as they prepared the course, but I remember a horse flapping about on the floor a few years ago, think it had broken its neck. I couldn’t get that image out of my head for weeks.
My brother was working the National, as always. Aintree is a massive site and there are loads of places to access the course away from the main areas so it doesn’t surprise me that protestors got on.

The National was a yearly institution in our house! It's such a massive thing in Liverpool. My Gran and Grandpa, mum and dad, sister and I would all sit around the tv and watch in. My dad would have popped out and put a bet on for everyone. Everything stopped for the duration of the race. I was horse mad, I loved watching anything with horses. I always use to justify it too myself with the argument that the horses wouldn't run if they didn't enjoy it. I haven't watched it for years though. I was going to watch today, but had to go out just as they started. It looked chaotic from my glances at the tv. I don't know whether or not the actions of the protesters contributed to this, but in some circles that will be how it will be explained.

I'm all for peaceful protest, but once they started trying to disrupt it, there was always the chance the outcome wouldn't be what they wanted and in some cases works against them because it just gets people's backs up.

I'm torn, because the GN meet is such a big thing round here. It brings in money for the city, worldwide publicity, I get to wander round town on Ladies' Day on the way home from work, wrapped up in layers of fleece and feel smug watching the race goers coming back with various stages of pre-hypothermia!

However, something needs to change. I don't know what. Perhaps fewer runners. Making the fences smaller doesn't seem to have worked all that well. I am another one who, as I get older, is getting concerned about the ethics of using animals, that can't give informed consent, for human entertainment - whether that is horse racing, RS horses, Twitter videos or anything else. I think the bits of the commentating I saw were dreadful. No clue about the impact or context of what they were saying.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Hill Sixteens trainer is blaming the protest for his death and saying how worked up he was - if he was that worked up should he have been allowed to run? I always remember the year poor synchronised got loose, was caught then still had to take part. Not sure how true it is but seen a comment on a racing forum that Galvin was very distressed prior - should he have been able to run?

They say about the protests, but the start itself was very messy, which would probably have wound them up more than walking round a paddock a few more times - having them circle then think they're starting, only to circle back and come in again would have wound them up The speed they went down to the first was so quick, anything unsighted is in trouble hence why the field should be reduced imo. Just watched a clip of the start of one of Red Rums GNs and they definitely look slower.

'They haven't got a bloody clue' - Sandy Thomson blames 'ignorant' protesters for Grand National horse death

Hill Sixteen suffered a fatal injury after falling at the first fence in Saturday's Randox Grand National, an incident trainer Sandy Thomson blamed... Read More

www.racingpost.com

Interesting, despite the chaos, "only" 4 were actually falls - most were unseats.

 

[Fred66]

Horses by and large are a domesticated animal, if they are not used for sport or leisure then the vast majority enter the food chain.

Obviously no one wants horses to die in the pursuit of sport and it is awful when it does happen but personally I’d rather that horses remain part of our sport and leisure with its risk than becoming solely used within the food chain.

 

[Fred66]

They say about the protests, but the start itself was very messy, which would probably have wound them up more than walking round a paddock a few more times - having them circle then think they're starting, only to circle back and come in again would have wound them up The speed they went down to the first was so quick, anything unsighted is in trouble hence why the field should be reduced imo. Just watched a clip of the start of one of Red Rums GNs and they definitely look slower.

And you don’t think there might be any correlation between the start being delayed and the start being messy ?

 

[fetlock]

Hill Sixteens trainer is blaming the protest for his death and saying how worked up he was - if he was that worked up should he have been allowed to run? I always remember the year poor synchronised got loose, was caught then still had to take part. Not sure how true it is but seen a comment on a racing forum that Galvin was very distressed prior - should he have been able to run?

They say about the protests, but the start itself was very messy, which would probably have wound them up more than walking round a paddock a few more times - having them circle then think they're starting, only to circle back and come in again would have wound them up The speed they went down to the first was so quick, anything unsighted is in trouble hence why the field should be reduced imo. Just watched a clip of the start of one of Red Rums GNs and they definitely look slower.

'They haven't got a bloody clue' - Sandy Thomson blames 'ignorant' protesters for Grand National horse death

Hill Sixteen suffered a fatal injury after falling at the first fence in Saturday's Randox Grand National, an incident trainer Sandy Thomson blamed... Read More

www.racingpost.com

Interesting, despite the chaos, "only" 4 were actually falls - most were unseats.

The first fence I think comes much quicker since they shortened the course. It surely gives them all (in a field of 39) very little time to get into a good position and I wonder how much that contributes to the messiness in the early stages.

Re the commentary, not sure what else they could say. They’ll have had their orders to keep stressing what a good life the horses have and how well looked after and difficult to say much really when there’s a likelihood of at least one fatality in the race and a full on protest on this basis was also underway. I’m surprised they showed so much (or any) footage of the protesters and didn’t instead try to play it down/sweep it under the carpet - which I feel they did re Hill Sixteen, as after seeing the video later, he looked to be dead as soon as he was on the ground. Horrible.

 

[Rowreach]

The first fence I think comes much quicker since they shortened the course. It surely gives them all (in a field of 39) very little time to get into a good position and I wonder how much that contributes to the messiness in the early stages.

Re the commentary, not sure what else they could say. They’ll have had their orders to keep stressing what a good life the horses have and how well looked after and difficult to say much really when there’s a likelihood of at least one fatality in the race and a full on protest on this basis was also underway. I’m surprised they showed so much (or any) footage of the protesters and didn’t instead try to play it down/sweep it under the carpet - which I feel they did re Hill Sixteen, as after seeing the video later, he looked to be dead as soon as he was on the ground. Horrible.

Re the commentary, it was what they did say, which a lot of people have commented on upthread, which has caused more than just raised eyebrows and fundamentally missed the point that the protestors, and anyone else with a glimmer of a conscience about jumps racing, are aware of and highlighting.

In terms of jump racing itself, there is a profound difference in a race which may result in a fall or fallers, may result in a fatality, and the GN which is absolutely guaranteed to have multiple fallers, and almost guaranteed to have at least one fatality. And that is in spite of all the changes over the past couple of decades.

Watching the first 30 seconds of the race I could not imagine being the owner of a chaser and ever considering running it in the National, where the risks are so so great. Money, status, greed, they're the only reasons for doing so. Oh, and a grand day out with your mates.

 

[Clodagh]

I’ve been at work so very late to the party but much as I love racing , NH in particular, today was hideous. I don’t like the GN anyway and today was just absolute slaughter. It was like watching the Palio. Is it still really necessary to kill that many horses for ‘fun’ and money.
The ITV team were a joke. Appalling.
Sometimes I hate people and what we do to beautiful animals.
Well done Corach Rambler, he was amazing.

 

[mariew]

Horses by and large are a domesticated animal, if they are not used for sport or leisure then the vast majority enter the food chain.

Obviously no one wants horses to die in the pursuit of sport and it is awful when it does happen but personally I’d rather that horses remain part of our sport and leisure with its risk than becoming solely used within the food chain.

I hope so too, otherwise I suspect horses would end up a rarity and lots of endangered breeds, a bit like the Suffolk punches are now, due to heavy horses no longer being actively used in farming.

I don't really know what would work for less fatalities. Maybe less horses is a good suggestion.

 

[sakura]

If a sporting event becomes unsafe, for whatever reason, it is up to the organisers to keep athletes safe. If the horses were dangerously wound up, to the point of causing a fatal injury, it should not have gone ahead as and when it did.

It’s also not the first time a horse has died at this specific race, is it?

 

[sakura]

“Without racing there would be no domestic horses” is a bit of a straw man argument. Horses should not be dying the way they are during the Grand National. We can, and should, do better.

 

[palo1]

I’ve been at work so very late to the party but much as I love racing , NH in particular, today was hideous. I don’t like the GN anyway and today was just absolute slaughter. It was like watching the Palio. Is it still really necessary to kill that many horses for ‘fun’ and money.
The ITV team were a joke. Appalling.
Sometimes I hate people and what we do to beautiful animals.
Well done Corach Rambler, he was amazing.

I don't want to make this conversation even more difficult but is the GN or racing 'worse' than shooting a load of beautiful birds out of the sky for fun/income? Where do we find the balance in our relationship with animals - is deliberately killing something better or worse than incidentally killing something in the pursuit of other goals? (racing/eventing/breeding/farming/construction/travel) Does it matter what our intention is, or is the outcome the defining factor? Does the life of the animal under our care have any significance in relation to the risk of death? (eg as in high welfare vs intensive/low welfare farming systems, racing etc).

 

[Mynstrel]

Hill Sixteens trainer is blaming the protest for his death and saying how worked up he was - if he was that worked up should he have been allowed to run? I always remember the year poor synchronised got loose, was caught then still had to take part. Not sure how true it is but seen a comment on a racing forum that Galvin was very distressed prior - should he have been able to run?

They say about the protests, but the start itself was very messy, which would probably have wound them up more than walking round a paddock a few more times - having them circle then think they're starting, only to circle back and come in again would have wound them up The speed they went down to the first was so quick, anything unsighted is in trouble hence why the field should be reduced imo. Just watched a clip of the start of one of Red Rums GNs and they definitely look slower.

'They haven't got a bloody clue' - Sandy Thomson blames 'ignorant' protesters for Grand National horse death

Hill Sixteen suffered a fatal injury after falling at the first fence in Saturday's Randox Grand National, an incident trainer Sandy Thomson blamed... Read More

www.racingpost.com

Interesting, despite the chaos, "only" 4 were actually falls - most were unseats.

Not slower, they just had another ¼ mile to run before they got to it so all of them had more chance to find space.

 

[4Hoofed]

I am very 50/50 on the national. Today did racing and equestrian interests few favours. I do think that a lot of the safety updates have increased the lethality of the race. Personally I think from my limited knowledge and understanding that lager fences and the longer distance seemed to allow them to space out and sort the wheat from the chaff in the way of retirements and refusals allowing the field to thin out with less carnage?? But maybe that’s looking with rose tinted glasses.

But then I think all of us with Equestrian interests need to really take a long hard look at how we show ourselves to the public and how our sports are perceived. Fatalities are fairly regular in eventing, show jumping and dressage imho it’s now pretty common place that horses are a product produced in a factory, especially on the continent, how many don’t make the cut, or are physically or mentally damaged beyond repair and never even make it to the public eye. Not to mention widely officials turning blind eyes to cruelty in warm up rings, professional and amateur yards, lorry parks and competition arenas right the way from local to international level. So I don’t think racing is in any more hot water then the rest of us.

Though the national today was a festival of errors, incident and tragedy.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I am very 50/50 on the national. Today did racing and equestrian interests few favours. I do think that a lot of the safety updates have increased the lethality of the race. Personally I think from my limited knowledge and understanding that lager fences and the longer distance seemed to allow them to space out and sort the wheat from the chaff in the way of retirements and refusals allowing the field to thin out with less carnage?? But maybe that’s looking with rose tinted glasses.

But then I think all of us with Equestrian interests need to really take a long hard look at how we show ourselves to the public and how our sports are perceived. Fatalities are fairly regular in eventing, show jumping and dressage imho it’s now pretty common place that horses are a product produced in a factory, especially on the continent, how many don’t make the cut, or are physically or mentally damaged beyond repair and never even make it to the public eye. Not to mention widely officials turning blind eyes to cruelty in warm up rings, professional and amateur yards, lorry parks and competition arenas right the way from local to international level. So I don’t think racing is in any more hot water then the rest of us.

Though the national today was a festival of errors, incident and tragedy.

The biggest difference between racing and any other equine event no matter how high the level is the TV coverage. Racing is free for everyone in Britain to watch every Saturday on TV. Very few other Equestrian sports are shown on free to view TV. If they are it's once or twice a year and usually slimmed right down, not often live and then they show the high lights not every nitty, gritty bit.

 

[fankino04]

I just can't understand why it seems like we have been suggesting reducing the field size for years and years yet it never looks like happening, instead they have lowered the fences which I guess on the surface looks to the protesters that they are looking for solutions but in fact has not made any difference, as stated on here it has maybe even made the problem worse. What's so difficult about reducing the numbers? The gold cup doesn't need to have 40 runners in it to be a top race. I think less horses, a more challenging course to have only better horses running and probably shorten it a bit more as it mostly seems to be run in a bog these days so horses will tire quicker.

 

[4Hoofed]

The biggest difference between racing and any other equine event no matter how high the level is the TV coverage. Racing is free for everyone in Britain to watch every Saturday on TV. Very few other Equestrian sports are shown on free to view TV. If they are it's once or twice a year and usually slimmed right down, not often live and then they show the high lights not every nitty, gritty bit.

Yeah, I agree with that as well. I honestly don’t think it will be long before we are justifying equine involvement in sport at all, let alone racing if we don’t help ourselves. I think running the national with 40 runners has had its day, let’s market it as a prestige best of the best race and vastly cut the numbers. Qualifying races maybe? That could be the general public allure maybe? I don’t know, I watch every year but this year makes me think something has to change. And I like horse racing! (Well certain elements I don’t, but same in most sports!)

I watched on sky so didn’t hear the itv commentary but I’ve seen it brought up in a lot of conversations!

Though more personally congratulations! You must be chuffed sounds like you’ve had a great week! (and thank you for taking the time with your eloquent and insightful replies!)

 

[minesadouble]

It's been said before but death is not the worst fate for a horse by a long way.

“Without racing there would be no domestic horses” is a bit of a straw man argument. Horses should not be dying the way they are during the Grand National. We can, and should, do better.

If we could do just one thing for horse welfare the thing that would have by far the biggest impact would be to ban keeping leisure horses.
But you won't see many arguing for that.

 

[bonny]

Yeah, I agree with that as well. I honestly don’t think it will be long before we are justifying equine involvement in sport at all, let alone racing if we don’t help ourselves. I think running the national with 40 runners has had its day, let’s market it as a prestige best of the best race and vastly cut the numbers. Qualifying races maybe? That could be the general public allure maybe? I don’t know, I watch every year but this year makes me think something has to change. And I like horse racing! (Well certain elements I don’t, but same in most sports!)

I watched on sky so didn’t hear the itv commentary but I’ve seen it brought up in a lot of conversations!

Though more personally congratulations! You must be chuffed sounds like you’ve had a great week! (and thank you for taking the time with your eloquent and insightful replies!)

It’s not a best of the best race though, its a staying handicap and what makes it a famous race is the different fences, the length of the course and it’s history. By tampering anymore with it what would make it any different to all the other staying handicap races ?

 

[Sandstone1]

Hill Sixteens trainer is blaming the protest for his death and saying how worked up he was - if he was that worked up should he have been allowed to run? I always remember the year poor synchronised got loose, was caught then still had to take part. Not sure how true it is but seen a comment on a racing forum that Galvin was very distressed prior - should he have been able to run?

They say about the protests, but the start itself was very messy, which would probably have wound them up more than walking round a paddock a few more times - having them circle then think they're starting, only to circle back and come in again would have wound them up The speed they went down to the first was so quick, anything unsighted is in trouble hence why the field should be reduced imo. Just watched a clip of the start of one of Red Rums GNs and they definitely look slower.

'They haven't got a bloody clue' - Sandy Thomson blames 'ignorant' protesters for Grand National horse death

Hill Sixteen suffered a fatal injury after falling at the first fence in Saturday's Randox Grand National, an incident trainer Sandy Thomson blamed... Read More

www.racingpost.com

Interesting, despite the chaos, "only" 4 were actually falls - most were unseats.

As predicted, thing is though most years at least one horse will die in the national if not more when there are no protesters and its not unusual to have fatalities at any meeting on any day of the year. Blaming the protesters just wont wash.