Shocked at H+H advice not to wear too much hi-viz

[ester]

My second, unhelpful, contribution to this thread is a complaint about the difficulty of acquiring mesh hi vis quarter sheets, especially in orange (since when you're wearing mesh, the rape is yellow and yellow is useless!).

we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952

 

[ozpoz]

I'm also going to buck the trend here - I've read the article now, and there is a lot of sense there.
I feel many people are missing the point completely ( sorry) which is that gadgets and gimmicks marketed at riders have overtaken our desire to use common sense, develop our own horse sense, knowledge and skills, and maybe then we are able to make choices about how to prepare our horses and ourselves before riding.
I don't ride on roads any more - I fail to see how a reflective anything is going to keep me safe from idiots who do 60mph round a blind corner on the narrow roads near me.I did wear a tabard when I used to ride on roads.

whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!

so shoot me now

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm sure that orange mesh quarter sheets would sell well, especially if they were as good as the old V-bandz ones that they don't make anymore.

 

[undertheweather]

I encourage you all to sign this petition, regarding high visibility clothing for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and horse riders.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/34110

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I feel many people are missing the point completely ( sorry) which is that gadgets and gimmicks marketed at riders have overtaken our desire to use common sense, develop our own horse sense, knowledge and skills, and maybe then we are able to make choices about how to prepare our horses and ourselves before riding.

I think that you have missed the point. No-one has rubbished the whole article, just the Bertie Basset comment. Surely it is common sense to put Hi-viz on both yourself and the horse if you are going out onto the busy roads or indeed off-road (easier for RAF to spot you, easier to be found by air ambulance if something awful does happen)?

 

[benson21]

whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!

so shoot me now

But preferably dont shoot her out in the woods on a hack, cos the air ambulance wouldnt be able to find you!!!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

But preferably dont shoot her out in the woods on a hack, cos the air ambulance wouldnt be able to find you!!!

 

[BBP]

I haven't read all the replies, but if me wearing too much hi-viz is molly-coddling my pony, then I am proud to do so. If I have an accident on the road i don't want it to be because someone couldn't see me, that would be totally unfair on both my horse and the driver involved. No, it won't save me from idiot drivers who don't care, but it might give the ones who do care an extra second to react to seeing us. What would you see in these pictures if it wasn't for the high viz?

He had all this on just to cross the road to the arena on a gloomy winter morning.

 

[flyingfeet]

whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!

so shoot me now

Actually that is an issue - you could get accidentally shot, wearing hi viz reduces the chances of accidents. Americans wear hi viz when stalking to avoid being shot by other hunters, then again Americans do have a rep of shooting anything that moves.

I will admit I don't always wear hi viz, but I would never criticize anyone who did, as drivers tend to go faster (and far too fast on country lanes), anything than can give more reaction time, can never be a bad thing

As H&H deem my sport un-newsworthy (GB medals and first SLR lady winner at Royal Windsor), they will never get another sub from me and frankly I can flick through it in under 1 minute in Tesco for all the "content" now in there

You've got to wonder if they've hired a bunch of Chelsea twits in London and hence why they have reporters that can spout something so stupid, and editors that don't bother reading content or don't care

RIP H&H at this rate - hope IPC media have a "redundancy review" in light of declining sales.

 

[quirky]

Golly gosh!!!! A whole 26 yrs!!!! *swoons in utter admiration*

I'll bet there are plenty of people who rode their entire life without wearing any reflectve gear and never had even a near miss, and lived to a ripe old age, this does not make them special, clever or wise, and it does not mean they did the best they could with regards to safety.

Right, for the stupid amongst us, I will say it one more time.
I do wear a hi viz tabbard and have been for at least the last 15 years.
I choose not to put hi viz on my horse.

Why change what isn't broken

 

[ozpoz]

I think that you have missed the point. No-one has rubbished the whole article, just the Bertie Basset comment. Surely it is common sense to put Hi-viz on both yourself and the horse if you are going out onto the busy roads or indeed off-road (easier for RAF to spot you, easier to be found by air ambulance if something awful does happen)?

I haven't missed the point of the article, my sense of humour is still intact.

I live in quite a remote, by some standards, part of the country. The geography is such that my friends , neighbours or whippet would find me before any airborne search and rescue would be launched, and, at my age, I'm not so sure I'm worth the fuel! (or the embarrassment)

 

[benson21]

Right, for the stupid amongst us, I will say it one more time.
I do wear a hi viz tabbard and have been for at least the last 15 years.
I choose not to put hi viz on my horse.

Why change what isn't broken

I get it now.
So, if you fall off on the road, the drivers will be able to see you on the ground, but not your horse which is loose on the road.

 

[armchair_rider]

I think it's a shame that such a stupid comment found it's way into an otherwise sensible article (and yes I have read it)

Just because you can buy 30 different rugs for your horse doesn't mean you need to
He probably doesn't need 20 different supplements either

However... Whilst covering yourself and your horse in hi-vis might not be necessary unlike over-rugging and over-feeding it isn't going to do any harm. There's certainly a case for questioning whether it's effective to coat yourself in hi vis of one colour but it's downright stupid to suggest there's no need for hi vis at all/ that a tabard alone is adequate.

 

[quirky]

Well, personally, I think the above comment is ridiculing those whose chose to wear plenty of hi viz.

Nope, not ridicule. I say it as I see it.

I pass one rider who wears an orange hi viz coat, with added yellow armbands. She has the same orange cover on her hat with a yellow band.

She has rein things and leg straps on the horse.

When driving towards her, her face looks like a rabbit caught in headlights .

A girl on our yard is similarly togged up (not so much on her, more on the horse) and she admits to being scared witless of hacking out.
They are the only 2 riders I pass who are done up 'like Christmas trees' .

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway

 

[pip6]

Daft comment but I'm not unduly surprised. Without wishing to slate a sector, it is a hunting orientated magazine (clue in the title), & I get driven to distraction where I live (Cornwall - Devon border) but hunt members hacking to meets or exercising their horses all wearing neutral colours. I neally ran into one this spring, it was a sunny day, straight road, chestnut horse, I didn't see her until the very last second because she blended into the shadows / sun so well. It's just not the 'done thing' for the hunters around here to wear any hi-viz whatsoever. Do they think they live in a magic bubble protecting them from vehicular traffic? Do they think so little of their lives & their horses that they wouldn't be seen dead in hi-viz (no, actually they'll be seen dead in browns & tweeds). So I'm actually more shocked a hunting magazine suggested wearing any hi-viz at all.

Bertie Basset, in coat, hat band & exercise rug.

p.s., horse has 2 rugs, no supplpements & does endurance so defiately no excess blubber.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Quirky, you are naughty - stirring in such a way!

 

[quirky]

I get it now.
So, if you fall off on the road, the drivers will be able to see you on the ground, but not your horse which is loose on the road.

Yes, they will see her, unless they are blind, in which case they shouldn't be driving.

As Amymay said, I don't think any amount of hi viz will prevent her getting hit if the worst was to happen.

Look how many cyclists die on the road each year and how much hi viz they wear.

I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times

 

[Shantara]

I can see why over the top molly-coddling would be bad (Over rugging, over feeding etc..) but if someone wants to dress their horse up and the horse doesn't care, Who else should?!
I have put a heart on Ned's browband, a heart tag (his ID), tassels on his bit and sometimes I put flowers and feathers in his hair (and rhythm beads!)
Ned couldn't care less. So why should anyone esle?

I dress him up in as much hi-viz as I can find and as I posted before, am on the lookout for a lighter mesh sheet.

Also on the subject of molly-coddling, does baby talk count? I often cuddle him around the neck and say stuff like "Oooh, who's my little squidgy-woo? Who's getting huggles? Neddy-noo is!" and other such rubbish, but he gets a loud, firm voice if he's naughty.

So long as the horse doesn't suffer for it, molly-coddling is fine and dandy if you ask me!

 

[quirky]

Quirky, you are naughty - stirring in such a way!

But, but, but .....

 

[Ruth_Cymru]

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway

and you are entirely entitled to your opinion, but just to reasure you, there are people out there who like their luminous and at the same time are confident with hacking their horses out and being able to control them (I'm one of them)

 

[ester]

well yes it is all about minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself the best chance, not preventing one.

The girl you say uses the orange and yellow seems like she is following the suggestion earlier on that an orange and yellow combination works very well with regards to visibility. What you describe certainly doesn't seem ott to me anyway (well apart fro the rabbit in headlights look .. maybe she always looks like that!)

 

[AshTay]

Nope, not ridicule. I say it as I see it.

I pass one rider who wears an orange hi viz coat, with added yellow armbands. She has the same orange cover on her hat with a yellow band.

She has rein things and leg straps on the horse.

When driving towards her, her face looks like a rabbit caught in headlights .

A girl on our yard is similarly togged up (not so much on her, more on the horse) and she admits to being scared witless of hacking out.
They are the only 2 riders I pass who are done up 'like Christmas trees' .

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway

This post actually says a lot more about you than it does about riders in general who wear lots of hi viz.

My view is that the degree of hi viziness (?) appears to negatively correlate better with arrogance than it does with experience/ability. I base this on a pitifully small number of encounters with riders of varying degrees of viziness and draw this conclusion based on how many smile and wave (if I'm riding past) or say thank you (if I'm driving past) and how many don't. In my experience as a rider, car driver and motorcyclist, riders with more hi viz are more likely to be courteous back to drivers thus promoting rider-driver mutual respect.
Although arrogance and ability might also be correlated therefore confounding the association of viziness and ability.

 

[Molasses]

This thread is wonderful!
I applaud all the Bertie on here and I doubly applaud your pride in seeking to protect you and your horses. Not that long ago most of us didn’t own a stitch of high-viz. If nothing else it’s wonderful to read peoples strong opinions on this topic. For yourself, your horse and other other road users it’s so nice to hear responsible folk being vocal about such an important issue.

Come on H&H - read between the lines! We all get the mollycoddling message but we are offended at one particular line that appears to endorse an out of date, backward and unhelpful opinion.

 

[ozpoz]

Actually that is an issue - you could get accidentally shot, wearing hi viz reduces the chances of accidents. Americans wear hi viz when stalking to avoid being shot by other hunters, then again Americans do have a rep of shooting anything that moves.

I will admit I don't always wear hi viz, but I would never criticize anyone who did, as drivers tend to go faster (and far too fast on country lanes), anything than can give more reaction time, can never be a bad thing

As H&H deem my sport un-newsworthy (GB medals and first SLR lady winner at Royal Windsor), they will never get another sub from me and frankly I can flick through it in under 1 minute in Tesco for all the "content" now in there

You've got to wonder if they've hired a bunch of Chelsea twits in London and hence why they have reporters that can spout something so stupid, and editors that don't bother reading content or don't care

RIP H&H at this rate - hope IPC media have a "redundancy review" in light of declining sales.

Jencots - I get a list of shooting days from the gamekeepers every year so I can avoid disruption to them,as I live to live in harmony with my neighbours. I don't ride out on /near roads.
I read the article in H+H. I enjoyed the tongue in cheek style which I find is often missing/ deemed inapropriate nowadays.

 

[benson21]

well yes it is all about minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself the best chance, not preventing one.

QUOTE]

absolutely, but surely its about 'minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself and anything in your charge, i.e your horse,the best chance.

 

[AshTay]

I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times

To risk assess you would consider what the risks are (being hit by a driver) and what you could do to minimise said risks. It's indisputable that wearing hi viz means drivers see you sooner. If a driver sees you sooner and is able to break/take evasive action sooner then it decreases the risk they will hit you. Simple. No, hi viz will not prevent all accidents but it can prevent some. You've stated that you wear hi viz so you clearly believe this so why would it only apply if the rider were mounted - do the same rules not apply to a loose horse? Or is just not possible that a horse and rider (including yourself) could become separated out on a hack.

I'm sat here laughing at myself because I frequently forget to put anything on my horse (I always put my tabard on because it's over my bridle so I don't forget) and yet I'm spouting all this!

I don't see the *point* in wearing EVERY conceivable item of hi viz all at the same time as I think you reach saturation point after so much but it's totally not on to ridicule people who choose to wear more (as it does no harm to anyone so no one has the right to make them feel bad or stupid for it). And it's also not acceptable to undermine the use of hi viz at all or suggest that it should be kept to a minimum. That's my gripe with the article in question.

 

[Flame_]

I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times

So which is it? Are riders wearing loads of hi viz nervous wusses like "rabbits caught in headlights" or are they cocky, over confident delusionals who think they are wearing a force field?

I really do not think you can stereotype. I guess I'm deluded because I'm sure hi viz prevents some accidents. Never mind.

Quirky, hasn't anything on this thread made you think, "yeah I suppose a bit more hi vis might just make us a little safer?"

Stuff on this forum has done that for me and I'm very grateful for it.

 

[Laafet]

I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.

I tend to agree with this. The article does mention about the change in riders over the years. Wearing lots of Hi-Viz will alert people to your presence but should not be used to basically inform everyone that you are terrified of traffic and expect everyone else to stop while you scowl at them. FWIW I always wear my Polite notice hat band and tabard, horse wears reflective wraps all round. I only ever use an exercise sheet in winter time and that is a Witney stripe blanket. And for those still wearing the 'horse in training/young horse' type of tabards are by admission admitting liability and can be confusing to non horsey people who have no idea what these phrases mean.
Not having a go, just everyone has jumped one small, silly remark when the rest of article was actually very truthful.

 

[quirky]

In my experience as a rider, car driver and motorcyclist, riders with more hi viz are more likely to be courteous back to drivers thus promoting rider-driver mutual respect.

, the first person in my post does not thank traffic ... ever!! She may give a nod but it is indiscernable ... the only time she takes her hands off the reins is when she hangs her bridle back up .
The second person is most courteous.

Me? I thank everybody, even those that don't bother slowing down .

Quirky, hasn't anything on this thread made you think, "yeah I suppose a bit more hi vis might just make us a little safer?"

No, it hasn't .

 

[TheSylv007]

d before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times

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