Shocked at H+H advice not to wear too much hi-viz

quirky said:
Of course I can risk assess ;).
I drive to the yard, so can assess as I am going what the visibility is like for a driver. Any doubt, I don't go out :)
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Yes, but what about when you set out in brilliant sunshine and twenty minutes later the sky has darkened and hail comes pelting down. This happened to me. Fortunately we were all in high-viz.
 
I am shocked by HH Admin's reply to this. YES I had spent money on your magazine and bought a copy before I posted.

I thought it was a very negative 'half sentence' as you refer to it. I never commented on the rest of the article or magazine and I haven't seen anyone else do do.

My interest is in the safety of the horse and rider and anything that discourages people from wearing more than the minimum hi vis is appalling, the riders make their own decisions that is personal choice, but if anyone feels embarrassed or ashamed to look like 'Bertie Bassett' because of your article that is wrong.
 
Does anyone else think that this thread has gone ever so slightly OTT?

It was only a comment in half a sentence, as already stated.

No wonder this country has gone Health and Safety mad when there is a backlash like this over one comment. She didn't even say 'don't wear hi-viz at all' - it was just a comment about overdoing it, which I took to be quite tongue in cheek ;)

I find Pip6's comments about 'hunting people in tweed not caring if their horses die' FAR more offensive.

Quirky I agree with you. Each to their own.

I don't ride in a back protector either FWIW - and you could apply many of the arguments on this thread to that!

I just think that this is a massive overreaction to one comment, which has not even advised against wearing hi-viz!

Plus to the person who commented about not being able to see the horse once you've been tipped off it - if there are any motorists who would miss half a ton of wild beast galloping about with it's reins trailing, they'd probably miss you whatever you were wearing ;)
 
I think the wording in that part of the article was derrogatory and in poor taste and kind of overshadows the rest of the article that was good.

However (and ducks for cover) I kind of see where they were coming from and hold similar personal impressions as Quirky about those that do go out decked as Christmas trees (I'm wrong, I know, but I can't help it!!!)

High Viz is good. It should be mandatory IMO (in limited form rather than completely decked out!!!). I always wear a high viz tabbard to hack out, and am considering perhaps some high viz brushing boots might be a sensible investment. But I so cannot be @rsed with covering every piece of leather, my body or my horses body with high viz!!!!
 
I am truly shocked by the official response from H&H. No one has been questioning the rest of the article, simply the assertion made by the author that people who wear more than a tabard are pansys or "bertie bassetts", both of which are being used in the article as derogatory name-calling to "bully" ( at worst) or mock and belittle (at best) a whole sector of the horse community who chooses to wear mulitple items if hi-viz to better protect themselves and their horse from the many dangers we face on the roads, and also to protect other road-users whom we may encounter whilst out riding.

Not only was the comment by the author ill-thought out and incorrect (hi-viz and wearing multiple colours and applying to varying heights / moving parts, is widely advised to make yourself better seen and therefore safer) but of equal importance I also found the comments offensive and derogatory, belittleing and, in what otherwise would have been a valid article highlighting the dangers of over-ruggibg and over-feeding the message has been lost but one flippant arrogant comment.
 
I can only assume the lady who wrote the article does not drive!

I was encouraged early on as a teenager to wear hi viz, by other eventers on our yard, who evented at intermediate level (please note definately not novice riders) and this was in the days when hi viz was still frowned upon on the whole. Then when I started driving I realised that a hat band was a good idea with the hedges and banks round here. When I moved to the Surrey Hills you have single track lanes with steep sided banks and dappled light from the trees, it was only when I almost ran into a horse and rider from the yard that I realised how important the leg bands are. The one in front was wearing them and it was the movement with the reflective pink (yes pink!) leg bands that showed up. The rider behind has a tabbard on a black horse and with the bank and corner I just didn't see her. Thankfully I am a cautious driver and avoided and accident, and said livery now goes out, as I do, with a tabbard, hat band and leg wraps.

It's not silly, outrageous or for novice riders, it is common sense, which sadly seems to be lacking an awful lot in today's society!
 
ester said:
we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952
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http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/high-visibility-mesh-fabric.html
If only my sewing machine worked I have so many ideas about high viz creations :p

Especially after I nearly missed someone on a lovely sunny but leafy road when driving and girl at my last yards poor pony got a wing mirror up his bump (thankfully no one was severely hurt) despite wearing a tabard and waving at the driving to slow down.

From what I understand about risk assessments mine would include wearing maximum high viz as that would mean I had considered all risks like being parted from my horse, all weather and terrain (it is very changeable here particularly if you are going from roads to forest to increasing height. The places I ride the conditions can vary massively within a hack I got could in snow the other day from what was a perfectly sunny clear day!) I once came across camouflaged cadets in the woods once quite glad I didn't get shot ;)
 
I have a hard enough time convincing the children and students that I teach that hiviz is cool enough to wear without the idea that others (including H&H mag) consider them "frightened" Bertie Bassetts for wearing it :(

I read the whole article yesterday and I did, as it happens, comment earlier on the whole thing. Some of the points raised are very valid indeed, and I would heartily endorse H&H running some sensible, informative articles on such subjects as over rugging and over feeding.

I am not sure that an article taking the p*ss out of horse owners who don't happen to come from a certain sector of hereditary horse owning society is the way to do educate anyone.

I have looked at a few other articles by Ms Mackaness, and it does seem to be the way she writes.
 
I don't understand the arrogance that goes with non (or minimal) hi viz wearers. Is their belief in their own superiour abilities enough to protect themselves AND THEIR HORSE from other peoples mistakes?! Same as not wearing a hat.

I am NOT a nervous rider. On the roads or in the school. I'll ride anything and regularly take young horses onto to the road for experience. I hack everywhere and anywhere and an that person seen blasting round stubble fields or scrabbling up sides of hills. However I still tog up in as much hi viz as poss TO KEEP MY HORSE SAFE. He deserves it.

It IS effective. Loads of riders round here wear lots of hi viz and our surrounds means you can LITERALLY see them a mile off. The other day I saw a friend over a mile down the hill, her horse in a flourescent exercise sheet. That's a whole mile a car drive could have planned in. You wouldn't have seen a hat band, leg bands or even a tabard at that distance. On the other hand I nearly hit another rider out on a dark bay (dark clothing too) in bright sunlight under some trees. Bloody fool. I know her and she's def one of those 'too cool' to wear reflective. Shame, because her horse is a nice animal and doesn't deserve to be hit.

How many times have you had a 'near miss' with a cyclist because you 'didn't see them'? I bet they weren't in lots of flourescent stuff. The same applies to horses.
 
ihatework said:
However (and ducks for cover) I kind of see where they were coming from and hold similar personal impressions as Quirky about those that do go out decked as Christmas trees (I'm wrong, I know, but I can't help it!!!)

High Viz is good. It should be mandatory IMO (in limited form rather than completely decked out!!!). I always wear a high viz tabbard to hack out, and am considering perhaps some high viz brushing boots might be a sensible investment. But I so cannot be @rsed with covering every piece of leather, my body or my horses body with high viz!!!!
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I agree that there's little to be gained by total submersion in hi viz! And we're all entitled to our opinions which we can air on here (because, let's face it, even for the most prolific posters, views expressed on here are not really that far-reaching!)

But H+H is a magazine that is read by a lot of people, including younger people, and is very well known and, in general respected, and so they have a responsibility to ensure that what they print does not have negative consequences on the riders who read it. They don't need to go about actively promoting hi viz but they certainly should not be casting it in any sort of negative light.
 
Maybe we should start trying to change the attitude to Hi Viz. At the moment it sadly seems to for ' nervous novice happy hackers'.

A better attitude would : if you don't wear lots you clearly don't give a damn about your horses safety :(
 
I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.
 
JFTD said:
My second, unhelpful, contribution to this thread is a complaint about the difficulty of acquiring mesh hi vis quarter sheets, especially in orange (since when you're wearing mesh, the rape is yellow and yellow is useless!).
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Have you had a look at the Parsons Rump option?

HHO admin said:
Dear forum members

<snip>
Regards, Lucy Higginson
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Can't help but feel that's a somewhat dismissive contribution which perhaps explains why the "A tabard is quite sufficient" atititude and somewhat insulting "Bertie Basset" terminology made it past the editors... Bit of a shame an otherwise interesting article was derailed in such a foreseeable way...

I'm sure though that everyone who hasn't read the article, but holds an opinion on the use of reflective safety wear, will hot foot it out to buy the magazine as suggested...

Laafet said:
And for those still wearing the 'horse in training/young horse' type of tabards are by admission admitting liability and can be confusing to non horsey people who have no idea what these phrases mean.
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I'm very simple minded...:D The reflective top I wear when walking young horse out has a whopping big, red, L front and back... He gets to wear an L plate too... :D

In all seriousness, I've had some very positive feedback... Even kids in cars who lean out with the "ahhh, he's a learner" get the idea... I figured if anyone can read the ones you refer to they might be a bit closer than I'd like anyway... :)
 
I had L-plates for mine when he was very young. I tied one to his tail and the other hung from the neckstrap.
Certainly raised a smile with most drivers.
 
patterdale said:
I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.
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If you're referring to me, you missed my point. Quirky can't assume that riders who wear lots of hi viz are numpty's based on the observation of 2 numpties who also happen to wear lots of hi viz. Likewise, i can't assume that people who don't wear hi viz are arrogant based on my limited number of observations that people in hi viz always appear to be more friendly to other road-users. My tongue was clearly not into my cheek enough. :D
 
I hear the jokes from the non horsy maternity ( the neighbours. When my friends go by top to toe in Barbie pink) and they don't come or get started from/by me!
 
patterdale said:
I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.
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But you not wearing a back protector only affects you if you fall off.
Not wearing sufficient hi-viz could also affect your horse if you part company and the motorist who didn't see you until too late.
 
HHO admin said:
Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com

Regards, Lucy Higginson
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Gosh...I know it's getting harder to encourage people to part with their cash and .. well, there's nothing as good as bad publicity for hiking up the sales is there?
Excellent marketing ploy - I must try and rub some of my customers up the wrong way :rolleyes::p
 
lannerch said:
I hear the jokes from the non horsy maternity ( the neighbours. When my friends go by top to toe in Barbie pink) and they don't come or get started from/by me!
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Do your friends, or you, care what other people think/say?

I honestly can't see the relevance... I've had one guy tell me I looked ridiculously like an opal fruit on horse back... This is the same fella who rides with no hat; parks his horse in the loading bay and ties it to the lamp post out side the co-op, on the main (only) road through the village so he can nip in for a few odds n' sods whilst he's out hacking... His and everyone else's opinion is of no interest to me... :)
 
ester said:
we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952
Click to expand...

Apparently dafthoss is on the case. I don't think I trust myself making such things but I will happily bribe other people! :D

Ladydragon said:
Have you had a look at the Parsons Rump option?
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Interesting solution to the problem - if I can't bully dh into making me a mesh sheet I may consider it.
 
Duckling: that's the point about wearing hi viz. The decision to wear it (or not) affects MORE THAN JUST YOU. It keeps your horse safe. It protects drivers. To not wear it means you couldn't give a damn about those two.

It IS possible to excessive with hiviz: you can get past the stage where having more makes little difference. But just tabard is not enough.

To cover all bases you need tabard, hat band and gloves for you. For the horse, something from the front (bridle and breastplate), something from behind (tail guard or rug) and something on their legs (moving). That IS quite a lot, but not excessive nor over lapping purpose.
 
Double_choc_lab said:
Be interesting to know who wrote the article and whether they have thousands of acres of private land over which to ride. Oh but don't fall off and require an air ambulance coz they wont spot you or the horse:eek:
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Even if you are hacking on a private estate off road you should still be in high viz, if you were to fall it's the only way the air ambulance would see you.
 
I wear hi-viz, my ponies wear hi-viz..... its not just for other road users benefit, but also for the myriad of different folks we meet out hacking - people walking dogs, kids on bikes, folks shooting etc etc. The RAF train around us in chinooks, as do police helicopters - frankly, I want to be hi-viz from every angle so that it gives all these good folks chance to see me and take appropriate action - as they aren't always wearing it so I might not have seen them!
And I'm with JFTD on the lack of mesh exercise sheets - did look at parsons rump, but a bit worried about branches getting caught in the straps? We go thru quite a few woods.....
 
Thank you Lucy Higginson, you've just lost yourself another ready with that attitude. People don't need to buy the mag as the article has been quoted and explained well enough I'm here and you're STILL saying you agree with the article despite the protests off many of your loyal readers . Just shows that you couldn't give a fig about your readers opinions.
 
abercrombie&titch said:
.............. And I'm with JFTD on the lack of mesh exercise sheets - did look at parsons rump, but a bit worried about branches getting caught in the straps? We go thru quite a few woods.....
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V bandz do them .. http://www.v-bandz.co.uk/category-24/MQTR.html as quarter sheets.. have one it is brilliant.. really makes a difference to passing traffic.

As for H&H and their response ... am utterly disgusted that anyone could excuse or justify making a derogatory remark about the wearing of hi viz.. both horse and rider should have hi viz on .. this is exactly the attitude that costs lives. The thought that this could encourage or vindicate the ridiculing of people who do wear hi viz is disgusting.

Even if the rider doesn't fall off there are circumstances when horse and rider can become separate... I lost my horse opening a gate that I had to get off for .. she spooked and tanked off down a single track lane with forestry on both sides .. thankfully she was safely recovered so it doesn't have to be a fall to get separated..

I don't need to do much road work but what I do is very dark as lots of trees.. and in the far north low light conditions are a constant throughout the day in winter.. and low sun can be even worse as it can seriously impair the vision.

Any non motorised user of the roads should be decked out christmas tree fashion whether cycling, dog walking (dog should be decked out as per horse) etc.. I know how difficult it can be to spot non decked out vulnerable road users when driving.
 
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HHO admin said:
Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com

Regards, Lucy Higginson
Click to expand...

Lets hope it educates the person who wrote the comment as part of the article, i am saddened that even after reading the outcry on the forum that you dont see fit as a group to apologise and say it was an idiotic statement to be allowed to go to press.
 
Ladydragon said:
I'm very simple minded...:D The reflective top I wear when walking young horse out has a whopping big, red, L front and back... He gets to wear an L plate too... :D

In all seriousness, I've had some very positive feedback... Even kids in cars who lean out with the "ahhh, he's a learner" get the idea... I figured if anyone can read the ones you refer to they might be a bit closer than I'd like anyway... :)
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What an excellent idea Ladydragon, I am going to be taking my youngster out and there are only busy roads outside my gate, L plates are a much better idea than wording, gets the point across simply & effectively. Nice one.
 
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