Should there be a weight limit for people at shows (and if so, what and how?!)

[CanteringCarrot]

He may not have been too heavy, but too tall. My current horse is 15.1 TB x pony (looks like an over grown pony) and is noticeably uncomfortable with tall riders even though they weigh no more than I do (I fluctuate between 10.7 and 11 stone and am only 5'1" at the most). It had previously been noted by a friend who knew him before I bought him that he always went better for short riders. He is built a little downhill so this may be the reason, my little arab who was very up in front never seemed affected by rider height.

I don't think that was the case. Another woman rode him a few times last summer and she's taller than me and this man, but quite thin. She's a very long person and he was ok with that. I could really see a difference in his back and hindend when the man rode him.

 

[Dexter]

Fair point. But it’s way over what 20% of those horse’s weight would be. And these are the horses that Genghis Khan’s army conquered much of Asia, Russia and the Middle East on. I should imagine the Mongol herders who own these horses would fall about laughing at the thought of an eleven stone lady being worried about trotting a cob around a showring for fifteen minutes. But then showing is pretty ridiculous nowadays anyway, when you start to break it down.

I wouldnt be holding Mongol herders up as an example of good horsemanship. They dont really take care of their horses at all. They leave them be to fend for themselves and they can end up incredibly poor. They also geld colts at 3 with no anesthetic or pain killer.

 

[Barton Bounty]

He may not have been too heavy, but too tall. My current horse is 15.1 TB x pony (looks like an over grown pony) and is noticeably uncomfortable with tall riders even though they weigh no more than I do (I fluctuate between 10.7 and 11 stone and am only 5'1" at the most). It had previously been noted by a friend who knew him before I bought him that he always went better for short riders. He is built a little downhill so this may be the reason, my little arab who was very up in front never seemed affected by rider height.

My horse seems off balance with taller riders, ok at walk but anything else he doesnt like, used to my wee short arse probably since no one was ever brave enough to ride him ?

 

[Cortez]

I wouldnt be holding Mongol herders up as an example of good horsemanship. They dont really take care of their horses at all. They leave them be to fend for themselves and they can end up incredibly poor. They also geld colts at 3 with no anesthetic or pain killer.

I have ridden in Mongolia, and this ^^^ is absolutely true. However, most Mongols are not heavy and the horses do not routinely have to carry anything close to 85kg.

 

[cariadbach10]

I wouldnt be holding Mongol herders up as an example of good horsemanship. They dont really take care of their horses at all. They leave them be to fend for themselves and they can end up incredibly poor. They also geld colts at 3 with no anesthetic or pain killer.

I see what you’re saying. But there has to be somewhere in the middle ground, where we recognise that horses are capable of way more than we perhaps think. I’m not condoning putting massively overweight riders on obese horses. That looks rubbish and isn’t great for either party. But a fit endurance horse with a fit rider carrying 20-25%? Many a hundred mile race has been won with that conbo. Long riders have travelled across continents with those kind of ratios.
My 27 year old Arab has carried me for eighteen years as a happy hacker and had a long career in racing prior to that. I’ve never been below 11 stone (or above 13.7) He’s still ridden now, checked by osteo and physio, everything still working if a touch creaky. I clearly haven’t killed him! He’s a tough little horse. ?‍

 

[Barton Bounty]

I see what you’re saying. But there has to be somewhere in the middle ground, where we recognise that horses are capable of way more than we perhaps think. I’m not condoning putting massively overweight riders on obese horses. That looks rubbish and isn’t great for either party. But a fit endurance horse with a fit rider carrying 20-25%? Many a hundred mile race has been won with that conbo. Long riders have travelled across continents with those kind of ratios.
My 27 year old Arab has carried me for eighteen years as a happy hacker and had a long career in racing prior to that. I’ve never been below 11 stone (or above 13.7) He’s still ridden now, checked by osteo and physio, everything still working if a touch creaky. I clearly haven’t killed him! He’s a tough little horse. ?‍

The arabs in saudi carry large grown men , not saying its right but they do

 

[PapaverFollis]

A tough little mongol horse that has generations of tough little horses behind it... non-tough ones will have been weeded out by virtue of not standing up to work/a hard life in a hard environment... is a different prospect from our horses that have had specialist farriery correcting genetic weaknesses and vet care and cosseting for generations and haven't necessarily been bred with long term soundness and general toughness in mind. We even have had a certain level of acceptance of breeding from unsound mares, in some circles at least. Plus a mongol horse will probably not be carrying the weight of two riders in its own fat on its leg joints already will it? (Though rider weight obviously still matters in terms of the back, being concentrated in place it certainly helps if the horse is slim and fit overall.)

 

[Cortez]

A tough little mongol horse that has generations of tough little horses behind it... non-tough ones will have been weeded out by virtue of not standing up to work/a hard life in a hard environment... is a different prospect from our horses that have had specialist farriery correcting genetic weaknesses and vet care and cosseting for generations and haven't necessarily been bred with long term soundness and general toughness in mind. We even have had a certain level of acceptance of breeding from unsound mares, in some circles at least. Plus a mongol horse will probably not be carrying the weight of two riders in its own fat on its leg joints already will it? (Though rider weight obviously still matters in terms of the back, being concentrated in place it certainly helps if the horse is slim and fit overall.)

Mongol horses, Icelandic horses, Quarter horses, Arabian horses; there are many tough little horses out there that seem to do quite well with higher weights than would be deemed suitable for horses of equal height here, but I would posit that most of those - with the exception of Quarter horses and Arabs in America - are not routinely carrying the sorts of weights that some of our show and leisure horses are asked to carry.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

The arabs in saudi carry large grown men , not saying its right but they do

I follow some breed accounts from that part of the world, on both sides of the Gulf, and both the riding styles and size of riders on very young horses are hair-raising and just as distressing as the incidents noted above. I do not know, but I suspect, that you're looking in most cases at a substantially shorter ridden career for horses there.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I follow some breed accounts from that part of the world, on both sides of the Gulf, and both the riding styles and size of riders on very young horses are hair-raising and just as distressing as the incidents noted above. I do not know, but I suspect, that you're looking in most cases at a substantially shorter ridden career for horses there.

Sadly I would imagine so, i just swipe past them on you tube but I have seen it

 

[Dexter]

I see what you’re saying. But there has to be somewhere in the middle ground, where we recognise that horses are capable of way more than we perhaps think. I’m not condoning putting massively overweight riders on obese horses. That looks rubbish and isn’t great for either party. But a fit endurance horse with a fit rider carrying 20-25%? Many a hundred mile race has been won with that conbo. Long riders have travelled across continents with those kind of ratios.
My 27 year old Arab has carried me for eighteen years as a happy hacker and had a long career in racing prior to that. I’ve never been below 11 stone (or above 13.7) He’s still ridden now, checked by osteo and physio, everything still working if a touch creaky. I clearly haven’t killed him! He’s a tough little horse. ?‍

But the research is showing that they are capable of LESS than we think. It was always 25%, then it was shown that 15% was actually probably the limit, and even 20% negatively affected horses soundness and muscle soreness.

I'm not saying they arent capable of it, but should we be asking it off them knowing what we now know?

 

[PapaverFollis]

Mongol horses, Icelandic horses, Quarter horses, Arabian horses; there are many tough little horses out there that seem to do quite well with higher weights than would be deemed suitable for horses of equal height here, but I would posit that most of those - with the exception of Quarter horses and Arabs in America - are not routinely carrying the sorts of weights that some of our show and leisure horses are asked to carry.

Yes. I was going to add something along those lines. The horses used in the race linked to above only have to carry a tall, heavy westerner for, what? A month? A couple of weeks? On and off as horses seem to be swapped every stage. Maybe just once or twice in their lives. Maybe every year. Then it goes back to carrying the smaller, slighter mongol rider. That is also a different prospect than carrying a too heavy rider week in, week out for its entire working life.

And do we have any information on how much physical toll it takes on them to take part in the event? Obviously they are vet checked on route. Buy what about long term damage? Compared to similar horses that never take part in that event, what are average outcomes etc.

I don't think it is valid to point at those horses doing that race to justify overweight Bridget bouncing around on the cantle of overweight Bob the Cob's saddle three times a week for as long as he can stand up to it.

 

[cariadbach10]

But the research is showing that they are capable of LESS than we think. It was always 25%, then it was shown that 15% was actually probably the limit, and even 20% negatively affected horses soundness and muscle soreness.

I'm not saying they arent capable of it, but should we be asking it off them knowing what we now know?

Aren't you getting to the point then where you're saying that people shouldn't ride horses at all?

 

[Cortez]

Aren't you getting to the point then where you're saying that people shouldn't ride horses at all?

People who are too heavy shouldn't ride horses, I think that was the original point of this post until people who were heavy started claiming they were being victimised.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Oh here we go again ???

 

[Tiddlypom]

Our local RDA centre has a weight chart on the wall with all horses listed and the balanced and unbalanced weight they are allowed to carry. It's not emotive/judgemtnal thoigh f course I appreciate some riders find it so. But it's just 'this is the limit' and if it is unclear whether a rider is within that limit, then they are weighed.

About a stone. I can go and look next time I am up there if you are interested

Good on that RDA centre, AE.

It often comes up on here as to whether a horse can cope better with a heavier balanced rider or a lighter unbalanced rider. I think that a heavier balanced rider is better, BUT that rider ought still be within the 15%. That leaves the unbalanced/novice rider needing to come in at significantly under the 15%.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Good on that RDA centre, AE.

It often comes up on here as to whether a horse can cope better with a heavier balanced rider or a lighter unbalanced rider. I think that a heavier balanced rider is better, BUT that rider ought still be within the 15%. That leaves the unbalanced/novice rider needing to come in at significantly under the 15%.

I thought i saw that chart on google actually

 

[cariadbach10]

Good on that RDA centre, AE.

It often comes up on here as to whether a horse can cope better with a heavier balanced rider or a lighter unbalanced rider. I think that a heavier balanced rider is better, BUT that rider ought still be within the 15%. That leaves the unbalanced/novice rider needing to come in at significantly under the 15%.

Heck. That's me not able to ride my horses forever if it's 15%. Must sell them to a small child, as that's pretty much all they would be capable of carrying according to that rule.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Heck. That's me not able to ride my horses forever if it's 15%. Must sell them to a small child, as that's pretty much all they would be capable of carrying according to that rule.

Agree its bizarre

 

[Tiddlypom]

My homebred lightweight 15.2 hh sports horse mare weighs in at 500kg. At 15% she can carry a rider of 10 1/2 stone naked weight - hardly a small child. A large one, maybe...

If your horse isn't up to your weight you need to either lose weight, to change the horse, or to just stop riding the horse ?‍.

 

[Hallo2012]

Agree its bizarre

why is it bizarre?

i am 5'7 adult and 15% inc saddle, of my 13hh pony.

15% of an average horse is 11-12 stone....not a small child?!

 

[windand rain]

Someone seriously advised me that 5% was the optimum and 10% the top limit which would mean my skinny 6 year old grandson would be too heavy for my highland pony. At 5%

 

[fetlock]

Basing it on the 15% rule do we need to tell the pony eventing squad they can’t go to Poland next week?

if an event pony (chunkier connies aside) is around 400kg the rider would have to be no more than seven and a half stones.

 

[Barton Bounty]

why is it bizarre?

i am 5'7 adult and 15% inc saddle, of my 13hh pony.

15% of an average horse is 11-12 stone....not a small child?!

I was responding to someone elses comment?
Not all of us are built like the side end of a fiver and ride tiny ponies, my boobs probably weigh more than your leg, and no they don’t disappear on a diet ??‍

but I am however allowed an opinion that doesn’t require questioning by everyone else ??‍

 

[cariadbach10]

My homebred lightweight 15.2 hh sports horse mare weighs in at 500kg. At 15% she can carry a rider of 10 1/2 stone - hardly a small child. A large one, maybe...

If your horse isn't up to your weight you need to either lose weight, to change the horse, or to just stop riding the horse ?‍.

Oof- that's me told! Right, who's going to help me write the ad for my ancient one?

'Irascible 27 year old 15hh Arab. Cushings, melanoma, arthritic from racing career, hacks alone or in company, still takes off in open spaces, can't be retired as seizes up which worsens arthritis, can't be stabled, hates travelling or being mollycoddled, exists on mushy speedibeet and cheese and onion crisps on his regular pub rides. Same home for eighteen years, but a lady on an Internet forum says owner is too fat and should 'change him' hence sad sale.'

I think if everyone who was over 15% sold their horses we would have a welfare nightmare on our hands.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Oof- that's me told! Right, who's going to help me write the ad for my ancient one?

'Irascible 27 year old 15hh Arab. Cushings, melanoma, arthritic from racing career, hacks alone or in company, still takes off in open spaces, can't be retired as seizes up which worsens arthritis, can't be stabled, hates travelling or being mollycoddled, exists on mushy speedibeet and cheese and onion crisps on his regular pub rides. Same home for eighteen years, but a lady on an Internet forum says owner is too fat and should 'change him' hence sad sale.'

I think if everyone who was over 15% sold their horses we would have a welfare nightmare on our hands.

Apparently responding to you irked others too ???

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Well this thread has me quite worried as I’m just about to buy a 17hh Irish sports horse.
and well I am currently 16 stone because covid and other life issues got in the way. I hate to admit I have gained 4 stone in the last 2 years. I’ve already been to see the horse once, and will be going back again on Wednesday to ride and have vetted. The owners don’t seem to have any objects about my weight, they haven’t mentioned it and seem very keen for me to have him. I have worked out that if I estimate said horse is 600kg I would be about 18% including tack.. is that too much???? ?

 

[Hallo2012]

I was responding to someone elses comment?
Not all of us are built like the side end of a fiver and ride tiny ponies, my boobs probably weigh more than your leg, and no they don’t disappear on a diet ??‍

but I am however allowed an opinion that doesn’t require questioning by everyone else ??‍

its a public forum, questions and questioning is what goes on here.

anyone can reply to anything, thats how it works.

regardless of whether they do or do not disappear for any reason, it has been indicated that weights in excess of 15% negatively impact the horse and EVERY rider needs to take that in to consideration (in my opinion which you are free to reply to, ignore,disagree with or whatever just as i am, to yours!)

just because people don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't still affect the horse they wish to carry them.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Well this thread has me quite worried as I’m just about to buy a 17hh Irish sports horse.
and well I am currently 16 stone because covid and other life issues got in the way. I hate to admit I have gained 4 stone in the last 2 years. I’ve already been to see the horse once, and will be going back again on Wednesday to ride and have vetted. The owners don’t seem to have any objects about my weight, they haven’t mentioned it and seem very keen for me to have him. I have worked out that if I estimate said horse is 600kg I would be about 18% including tack.. is that too much???? ?

I would say your absolutely fine! So will many others Others may criticise the hell out you but… this thread was supposed to about showing.

 

[Barton Bounty]

its a public forum, questions and questioning is what goes on here.

anyone can reply to anything, thats how it works.

regardless of whether they do or do not disappear for any reason, it has been indicated that weights in excess of 15% negatively impact the horse and EVERY rider needs to take that in to consideration (in my opinion which you are free to reply to, ignore,disagree with or whatever just as i am, to yours!)

just because people don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't still affect the horse they wish to carry them.

Have a Wonderful day