Should there be a weight limit for people at shows (and if so, what and how?!)

[palo1]

So you had no idea until someone else pointed it out that you were fat?

Of course I knew. I had tried accepting that physical reality and working towards a far better sense of self acceptance but that didn't take away the physical impact of being fat. I needed someone to be straightforward and clear for me as I had got into a right muddle about food, self image etc etc. I wasn't ill nor did I have an eating disorder but I completely ignored my physical reality in favour of other feelings and ideas -mostly around food, but also around motherhood and other things. I had taken my eye off the ball of my weight and self care. I needed help and thankfully my OH was also my best friend and my clearest, most honest critic. That isn't everyone's experience I know and dealing with any physical issue is difficult. I really understand that. I just wanted to say that having someone be really up for that degree of clarity and honesty about numbers on a scale helped me. That is why I think it would be useful for everyone to have some numbers to work with around being a suitable weight to ride any particular horse. I think that clarity and direction are useful but that is just my experience.

 

[ponynutz]

Having grown up in a family that had no problem whatsoever in saying "you're getting a bit porky, don't eat so much" I find all this tiptoeing around, not saying the fat word, not wanting to tell people they're overweight, terrified of saying anything in case it triggers anorexia, fat shaming, body positivity, etc., etc., quite bemusing. Being fat IS NOT NORMAL, it's not a positive thing, and you shouldn't feel good about it. Nor should you feel ashamed of course, but it is something that you can and should do something about. And if you are too fat to ride a particular horse, then you most certainly should not ride it and your feelings about the matter are pretty much inconsequential. I've never been particularly fat, I am a normal weight for my height, so no, I don't have much insight into how all this makes overweight people feel, but I have often had conversations with people who were fat and too unfit to ride their horses - and I've never lost a student because of it.

It's not that that's the problem. It's the way it's said and the fact that it really can sneak up on people. Metabolism slowing down during puberty, stress eating, an eating disorder, an injury, mental health issues, medication changes can all contribute as can so many other things. So please just be KIND.

Telling fat people they're fat is still not nice, just as telling a skinny person they're skinny isn't nice. Encouraging them to eat the right things and exercise is the way to do it, not, 'You're getting chubby' which is really quite rude. Human decency.

No, being fat isn't normal but it's not an excuse to be mean to somebody. 'You're unhealthy and putting yourself at risk, shall we sort it out?' said ESPECIALLY from a parent to a child is much nicer and more constructive and doesn't lead to sneaking food which can, in turn, turn into a binge eating disorder, OR anorexia/bulimia.

Put it this way - I agree with Ricky Gervais that, 'fat' is just an adjective. But, 'fat' is also coupled up with other words in most people's minds (especially women) with, 'ugly', 'unlikeable', 'the outcast'. Just how being really skinny is associated with anorexia or drugs etc. It's unfortunate but true and we need to be sensitive to it.

Also just because you're fat doesn't mean you're unfit

 

[palo1]

Of course I knew. I had tried accepting that physical reality and working towards a far better sense of self acceptance but that didn't take away the physical impact of being fat. I needed someone to be straightforward and clear for me as I had got into a right muddle about food, self image etc etc. I wasn't ill nor did I have an eating disorder but I completely ignored my physical reality in favour of other feelings and ideas -mostly around food, but also around motherhood and other things. I had taken my eye off the ball of my weight and self care. I needed help and thankfully my OH was also my best friend and my clearest, most honest critic. That isn't everyone's experience I know and dealing with any physical issue is difficult. I really understand that. I just wanted to say that having someone be really up for that degree of clarity and honesty about numbers on a scale helped me. That is why I think it would be useful for everyone to have some numbers to work with around being a suitable weight to ride any particular horse. I think that clarity and direction are useful but that is just my experience.

I just wanted to add, slightly painfully, but hopefully it might resonate with others that when I became a mum I adored my children but I had stopped working, had no real clue how to do 'big' parenting lol but wanted to create for my children a sense of warmth, comfort and plenty. I loved cooking so I did that, creating lots of wonderful meals that we sat down to eat together. We enjoyed that family time; my OH has a really physical job and prior to this period in my life I had run around, had horses, done sport etc. Suddenly though my focus was on 2 small children and a home. Food was a lovely part of family life and it helped to create a certain sense of luxury when in fact we were pretty hard up. I liked the challenge of making lovely family meals, introducing my children to French, Italian and other food, cooking with them - the whole thing! I enjoy wine too.

You can imagine, that when I returned to work, still having 2 young children, I was pretty exhausted and work added no end of stress. Home was a wonderful place where I could relax with my hobby. I had a horse who could easily carry me though I did consider my weight gain and his health. But somehow I couldn't or wouldn't find a way out of this pattern. Until my OH pointed out that we had made a lovely family, we had achieved a sense of home, of comfort and plenty, that the children were well adjusted food wise and that I had somewhat sacrificed my health along the way. By then, food was really something of a retreat from the stresss of being a working mum who was also trying to forge a new identity whilst keeping the right bits of the old one. I just needed some help to see things differently and have someone there to model and support a different 'good' life. Sorry for the personal tale - I don't want people to think I am critical or don't understand how things can go awry with our health and self-care. It was nothing to do with discipline; believe me, cooking 3 meals a day for a family takes discipline lol!!

 

[Upthecreek]

It seems like people who are too heavy or close to being too heavy for their horses are making the assumption that people who are not are naturally slim or find it really easy to maintain a healthy weight, when for most people that is not the case. I’d love to eat bigger portions and be able to eat foods I consider to be treats more often, but the simple fact is I can’t because if I do I will gain weight and that is not fair on my horses. It is not easy to maintain a healthy weight and for most people it requires exercising restraint where food is concerned. And before anyone jumps on me I do understand that some people find this easier than others, for a variety of reasons.

If young children are overweight the parents are at fault. Older children should not need to be told they are overweight. They need to be educated from an early age about nutrition and understand the relationship between diet and exercise to help them make healthy choices. It is also important that parents set a good example.

 

[PapaverFollis]

It was a comment from my equine physio that was in no way actually directed at me really that pushed me into getting back in control of my weight. It was a general discussion a bit like this about what horses can carry but it made me realise I was probably too heavy. I did the maths and realised that with my saddle I was pushing over 15%. That's when I started running again but that only did so much. And yeah, I could have done with someone telling me more directly that I was overweight. I've always been pretty OK with my body and how I look and put weight on in "the right" places so still look quite slim so I hadn't quite realised how far I'd gone! My doctor had hinted but personally I could have done with some frankness.

Anyway it was the extra realisation that my response to sugar was probably heading towards pre-diabetic, that the gut microbiome was a thing and that both of these seemed to feature in bad covid outcomes that really gave me a kick up the bum to DO SOMETHING.

I have to be honest I thought I had found The Answer in changing the food I was eating and that once I'd lost the weight I'd be able to go back to eating much more again as long as I kept to the principles with regards to avoiding blood sugar spikes and what not. Actually I still have to eat a lot less than I would like to eat. That's OK. I can now skip meals without feeling woozy! So at the moment I'm eating breakfast and lunch only. I'm a little hungry at bedtime but a herbal tea goes down nicely. I've realised I am a massive comfort eater and also eat compulsively in a really scary out of control way at times. Maintaining my weight is never going to be easy. But going around a couple of stone overweight convincing myself I was fine and healthy was a but daft. I didn't realise how much it was impeding me until it was gone. Same as I didn't realise how much it was affecting my horses until it was gone I suppose.

Regarding conflating being too heavy for a horse with carrying extra fat. I'm never going to judge people for extra fat. I can say this over and over. I've been there, I understand it is hard, we are being screwed by the food industry and are whole lifestyle and society are just really rubbish for trying to be happy healthy humans in. We should be sitting around mostly outside when the weather allows in large family groups doing simple, physical work and eating fresh unprocessed foods. Instead we sit in our individual boxes all the time, looking at screens, doing sedentary stressful jobs, not connecting properly to other humans, eating highly processed empty food and drinking sugar.... it is kind of impossible.

So yeah. No judgement here.

However a person who is too heavy for a horse is also very likely to be carrying extra fat so that is where the discussion gets cross-wired.

I know BMI is kind of not the be all and end all but as crude measure it does do something. The heaviest a 6ft6 person can be and still have a BMI in the healthy range is 15 stone. At 6ft6 you're going to be butting up against issues with saddle fit etc anyway but you could still find a few horses that could do it. At a more average kind of place a 15.2hh 550kg horse can take up to 13 stone including tack... so 11stone of human? Anyone under 5ft7 who is over 11stone is overweight. Which is why we end up talking about fat when we start talking about being too heavy for a horse I suppose. Yes there will be really muscular people for whom BMI doesn't give a good representation of body fat but for the most part overweight people will be overweight from fat rather than muscle.

And personally when I talk about people being overweight or fat or unhealthy I'm seeing it as them being failed by society, health systems, mental health provision, the food industry, education, modern life etc etc rather than some kind of moral failing of their own. I also don't think you need to be slim to be happy or to feel goid about yourself or to be attractive to others and if people are happy then great. But many people seem to not be happy with being overweight and not just because of any stigma attached to it. But because it makes stuff that should be effortless, hard. It is simply harder to go about in a bigger body than a smaller one and, speaking personally, it was such a relief to get rid of the extra weight I had accumulated. Just walking is easier, running even more noticeably easier, getting on and off the horse is easier, turning over in bed and putting my shoes on is easier....

I honestly don't even know what I'm trying to say. It just all makes me kind of sad. Society is kind of broken and we have all been failed and when we try to talk about it everyone gets really upset when actually we need to be pointing our fingers at the companies that are profiting from making people more and more unhealthy (whether they are actually overweight or not).

 

[ycbm]

No, being fat isn't normal

But it is. Even being extremely fat isn't uncommon enough to call abnormal. Close to two thirds of the UK population are either overweight or obese (roughly half of each). We have lost sight, as a society, of what a truly healthy weight for most people is.

This normalisation of being overweight is a big part of the problem. It makes it more difficult for people to realise that they personally have an issue when they look like so many other people around them. It means, among other things, that anyone who really wants to try to lose weight is going to be surrounded by a number of people who will insist that they don't need to, just when they need maximum support.

I was tipped into dieting by brothers who were allowed to bully me about being a slightly overweight 15/16 year old (I'd look thin today!). The illusion of control it gave me in a life filled with stress by poor parenting turned to full blown bulimia before it had a name. But once I got it under control after a few years, I've never had a serious problem keeping a good weight, so I have no idea how that feels, and the older I get the more I empathise with those who do.

I used to think it was calories in vs calories burnt, full stop, but it certainly ain't. If I could bottle what makes me eat less at the top end of size 12 (10 in M&S!) instead of buy the next size up in clothes, I'd give it free to everyone.
.

 

[palo1]

But it is. Even being extremely fat isn't uncommon enough to call abnormal. Close to two thirds of the UK population are either overweight or obese (roughly half of each). We have lost sight, as a society, of what a truly healthy weight for most people is.

This normalisation of being overweight is a big part of the problem. It makes it more difficult for people to realise that they personally have an issue when they look like so many other people around them. It means, among other things, that anyone who really wants to try to lose weight is going to be surrounded by a number of people who will insist that they don't need to, just when they need maximum support.

I was tipped into dieting by brothers who were allowed to bully me about being a slightly overweight 15/16 year old (I'd look thin today!). The illusion of control it gave me in a life filled with stress by poor parenting turned to full blown bulimia before it had a name. But once I got it under control after a few years, I've never had a serious problem keeping a good weight, so I have no idea how that feels, and the older I get the more I empathise with those who do.

I used to think it was calories in vs calories burnt, full stop, but it certainly ain't. If I could bottle what makes me eat less at the top end of size 12 (10 in M&S!) instead of buy the next size up in clothes, I'd give it free to everyone.
.

I don't think there is one answer! I am generally a 10-12, I weigh myself every day now as a habit of looking after myself - like brushing my teeth, and having clothes that are the size I need to be really helps me know exactly where my weight is. Everyday weighing means I can take the good days with the bad and accept a degree of fluctuation without emotional panic! I think aspects of those kinds of things where you are actively acknowledging your reality and doing stuff can be very therapeutic in the fight to stay a healthy size in a society that literally beseiges us with food, calories and unrealistic body images (at both ends of the spectrum).

 

[ycbm]

I recommend everyday weighing too. It lets you know that it's completely normal to be up 2 pounds one day for no reason you can put your finger on, and there's no need to eat 3 Mars bars to make yourself feel better, it will go down tomorrow.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I used to think it was calories in vs calories burnt, full stop, but it certainly ain't. If I could bottle what makes me eat less at the top end of size 12 (10 in M&S!) instead of buy the next size up in clothes, I'd give it free to everyone.
.

It's probably your gut bacteria. ? you can bottle it but you might have difficulty convincing people to take it...

 

[palo1]

As a further aside, and from a slightly historical point of view, the size of all food has become so much bigger in recent years, as well as far more available and socially 'encouraged'. An old cookery book of mine gives a recipe for a cake for 8-10 servings, made with only 2 eggs and 4oz (100g) each of butter, sugar and flour. A more contemporary book - like Nigella Lawson for eg suggests, for a comparable cake that you need almost 1/3 more of every ingredient to serve the same number and the icing/toppings are either doubled (on top and in the middle) or very much more extravagant in terms of ingredients. My grandmothers idea of a piece of cake, maybe at the weekend, and my expectation of 'cake every day' only help to demonstrate this further!

 

[Winters100]

As a further aside, and from a slightly historical point of view, the size of all food has become so much bigger in recent years, as well as far more available and socially 'encouraged'. An old cookery book of mine gives a recipe for a cake for 8-10 servings, made with only 2 eggs and 4oz (100g) each of butter, sugar and flour. A more contemporary book - like Nigella Lawson for eg suggests, for a comparable cake that you need almost 1/3 more of every ingredient to serve the same number and the icing/toppings are either doubled (on top and in the middle) or very much more extravagant in terms of ingredients. My grandmothers idea of a piece of cake, maybe at the weekend, and my expectation of 'cake every day' only help to demonstrate this further!

Same with dress sizes. I have recently found an old size 10 dress of mine from about 30 years ago that I could definitely not get into today, but now I am size 8-10 in 'new' sizes.

 

[palo1]

Same with dress sizes. I have recently found an old size 10 dress of mine from about 30 years ago that I could definitely not get into today, but now I am size 8-10 in 'new' sizes.

Yes, me too; it is massively frustrating. I was a size 12, slimmer than I am now after 2 children and a few years - now I am generally a size 10. Am I fooled??? Am I heck...It is miserably misleading and ridiculous to gaslight people in that way but somehow fashion gets away with it (and I don't mean haute couture lol).

 

[clinkerbuilt]

Yes, me too; it is massively frustrating. I was a size 12, slimmer than I am now after 2 children and a few years - now I am generally a size 10. Am I fooled??? Am I heck...It is miserably misleading and ridiculous to gaslight people in that way but somehow fashion gets away with it (and I don't mean haute couture lol).

I wish sizing* could be done mainly with body measurements. I find waist etc measurement far more enlightening and way, way less triggering.
*ETA women's sizing. Men's is already measurement-based.