Should we see a difference yet?

[ladyt25]

Please put the pics on here not the FB link as I can't see at work!!!

For what it's worth (I have only just come across this thread), I see no difference really with breeding healthy x breeds or pure bred dogs to be honest if they have homes waiting for them. At least 2 or 3 posters over the last few weeks have bred some pure breeds and they did not get the same slating of there being "too many dogs being bred"!!!

I don't think it matters if it's a x or a pure bred, they can still end up in numpty homes or rescues. You only have to look at rescue centres - they are no all cross breeds in there!!

 

[Vizslak]

No ladyt because they are all well and responsibly bred litters with relevant health checks for the parents and homes waiting for them. I havent commented on this thread before because I cant be bothered to keep up with this constant bickering about dog breeding, people air their ligitimate views and then get shot down for it...ok I agree some posters are a little blunt in their delivery. Apparently though some members of the forum would still rather see cross bred pups irresponsibly bred than a litter of carefully thought out pure breds. Nout so queer as folk.

 

[ester]

mmm, me too..hopefully both parents are hip/elbow/eyes screened?

Yes, both are screened and we have homes lined up for any potential pups.

No ladyt because they are all well and responsibly bred litters with relevant health checks for the parents and homes waiting for them.

As per the quotes above though these dogs had the relevant checks and the homes lined up for pups...

OP They are lovely!

 

[Vizslak]

and according to the comments under the pics certainly its untrue that they had homes lined up....

 

[CAYLA]

No comment re the breeding, if you can offer back up (for life) for each and very pup, any age and any issue then fair play........is she outside? in a crate? does she not have a whelp box and space to get out and walk around, she looks rather cramped there
Apologies if Im looking at the pictures wrong.

 

[Dobiegirl]

and according to the comments under the pics certainly its untrue that they had homes lined up....

If anyone cares to look on facebook on the op you will see she said on 3rd April that the black boys were still looking for homes, not as she said they all had homes to go to.

 

[GinaGem]

If anyone cares to look on facebook on the op you will see she said on 3rd April that the black boys were still looking for homes, not as she said they all had homes to go to.

Yeah i noticed the same. Bit confused why the dog got moved outside to have her puppies unless i've got the wrong idea?

 

[Vizslak]

Its a bizarre post all round. I love the way the OP thought she would get slated for having no sheets and towels...I wouldnt have sheets and towels anywhere near newborn pups, good job the bitch did chuck em out! Moving a dog outside in an open crate with a horse rug over it and no heat source is the most bizarre practice I have ever heard of, we used to move outside dogs inside...never heard of anyone doing it the other way round.

 

[Vizslak]

In light of the fact this second post is attached to the first post and the way that deteriorated....although I feel upset for those of you that stuck up for the OP...do I think these pups parents are genuinely health tested...no...do I think the OP had 12 homes lined up...definately not....that aside, I shall try to make my previous points more constructive.
OP, is there a reason you moved her outside to have the puppies? Do they have any source of heat? Is the cage door shut all the time?
Puppies cannot regulate their temperature for the first weeks of life, they must have a consistant heat source to keep them neither to warm or too cool, in such a confined space the mother is obviously keeping them warm but outside with nowhere to keep warm a puppy straying away from the mother will chill very quickly. They should be somewhere warm with no draughts ideally.
Could I suggest that at very least you purchase some vet bed for the bottom of the cage and chuck everything else (blankets, towels, mattress etc) out. The trouble with loose bedding is there is a large risk of suffocation by a puppy crawling underneath etc and in a small space like the crate the bitch could easily lie on one and kill it. I think you have been very lucky indeed to have had no fatalities so far by keeping the bitch and pups in the mannar you have been. At just over a week old its not too late to change your practices before the luck runs out.

 

[CAYLA]

What vizzy said, Im sorry but a bitch and pups kept like that makes it more unbelievable that there was any health checks involved and the fact that homes where apparently in abundance now there seems to be pups needing homes!
Was this whelping even prepared for?

 

[ester]

duly noted . I will still think the same re the pedigree/non pedigree argument if done correctly though .

 

[Eriskayowner]

Both dogs have had health checks.

Homes have all been found for all the pups but were finding one more as we might have to move house (unexpectedly) in 3 months time and it's hard to find somewhere to rent with a young puppy. If I get my way then I'm moving to our other house and I'll keep the black boy as planned (who will be neutered).

Yes, the pups are outside but it's very warm out there - the crate is completely insulated and they are absolutely fine.

Yes, I'm probably making mistakes, but no-one's perfect.

 

[Vizslak]

I dont have a problem with for example working cross breeds, springer x cocker etc....if as you say all is done correctly. I dont like the designer crosses being bred really because there is no point to it and each new cross has a high price tag and gets more muppets breeding irresponsibley for the cash...but thats by the by, I can even tolerate a designer cross (just) if its done correctly.

 

[Vizslak]

Both dogs have had health checks.

Homes have all been found for all the pups but were finding one more as we might have to move house (unexpectedly) in 3 months time and it's hard to find somewhere to rent with a young puppy. If I get my way then I'm moving to our other house and I'll keep the black boy as planned (who will be neutered).

Yes, the pups are outside but it's very warm out there - the crate is completely insulated and they are absolutely fine.

Yes, I'm probably making mistakes, but no-one's perfect.

Why does it say on the third of april...All the yellows have homes now just the black boys need homes...you are also blatently trying to persuade friends on there to have them?! You said you had 12 homes...that was clearly a lie.
How is the crate insulated?!! Its an open wire crate??
You live in the same county as me...how is it warmer where you are than me? I wouldnt chuck my pups out in the garden in this weather (they are 3 days younger than yours)

 

[CAYLA]

Both dogs have had health checks.

Homes have all been found for all the pups but were finding one more as we might have to move house (unexpectedly) in 3 months time and it's hard to find somewhere to rent with a young puppy. If I get my way then I'm moving to our other house and I'll keep the black boy as planned (who will be neutered).

Yes, the pups are outside but it's very warm out there - the crate is completely insulated and they are absolutely fine.

Yes, I'm probably making mistakes, but no-one's perfect.

Hard to find a house to rent with 1 puppy you say?? what happens if 2 or 3 purchasers say in a months time "we have to return out pups" will the landlord allow that many
If you live in the same Country as me...then im sorry it is not warm enough for pups outside in an exposed crate, my adult kennel dogs have coats on (I have never coated my dogs ever) this tells you how bad the weather has been!!
What is the crate insulated with

Im sorry it smacks of an ill thought out mating and it does not looks like back up will/can be offered and that is indeed where I will always comment.

You say vet checks!! others where asking about TESTS, not checks, health tests!

 

[Eriskayowner]

With regards to amber being cramped, we have built her an area outside her crate to allow her to come and go as she pleases to stretch her legs. She also has access to the house although she, obviously, chooses to be with her pups.

She wouldn't leave the crate for the first 36 hours which is why she looked cramped to begin with. We've taken the blue basked our now to give them all some space. The crate is HUGE. it's plenty big enough for her to lie down and stretch out fully and have plenty of space for the pups.

 

[Vizslak]

why was she not whelped inside? I just dont understand why you would put a house dog outside to whelp??

 

[CAYLA]

Both dogs have had health checks.

Homes have all been found for all the pups but were finding one more as we might have to move house (unexpectedly) in 3 months time and it's hard to find somewhere to rent with a young puppy. If I get my way then I'm moving to our other house and I'll keep the black boy as planned (who will be neutered).

Yes, the pups are outside but it's very warm out there - the crate is completely insulated and they are absolutely fine.

Yes, I'm probably making mistakes, but no-one's perfect.

I think the biggest mistake you made was to breed in the first place.
The back up? can you please tell you you can and will offer each and very puppy back up for LIFE.

 

[Vizslak]

Yes, I'm probably making mistakes, but no-one's perfect.

No which is why I bit my tongue and tried to offer you some constructive advice. As a minimum you need to get the bitch indoors (or in a stable/shed at very least) and ensure she has the correct bedding that poses no danger to the pups and an adequate heat source in the form of a heat pad or heat lamp.
The above is how to correct your mistakes before they turn into disasters.

 

[Dizzykizzy]

I too was slated when I bred from my bitch 4 years ago.
We were lucky, we did find homes for all of them (12!) and I am still in touch with them all, they know that I would have any back in a heartbeat if I had to but luckily they all seem settled and several in working homes too. We even had a first birthday party for them and all but one made the trip, some from the other end of the country.
What I find upsetting is that OP felt it was ok to leave her while she whelped, we were there for the delivery of all of ours and slept beside the whelping box for a week until we felt they were safe, even then they were checked through the night. We had a heat pad which the pups gravitated on and off when necessary, it was June and warm but they were indoors.

Incidentally, we fed ready brek as advised by my vet at the time. It is a better option than weetabix which many people choose though dogs don't easily digest wheat. Please don't give cows milk though, we used goats milk bought powdered and made up fresh for each meal.
If I were to do it again I would wean onto raw I think as that is what we feed now.

Good luck OP and pups, I hope you do have homes for them and I hope their hips etc are all fine.

 

[Vizslak]

What I find upsetting is that OP felt it was ok to leave her while she whelped, we were there for the delivery of all of ours and slept beside the whelping box for a week until we felt they were safe, even then they were checked through the night. We had a heat pad which the pups gravitated on and off when necessary, it was June and warm but they were indoors.

Good for you, I am currently very sleep deprived from puppy watch...this should be standard practice. OP seriously you could have lost your bitch and the pups by leaving her outside and checking her twice through the night. You really were not/are not prepared for this litter. Its very concerning.

 

[Elle123]

Some very sound advice from Viz. Tried to give the benefit of the doubt but i'm sorry but the cramped conditions got to me the most, the risks a huge to the pups. Yes she can potentially get out to stretch her legs, but even her getting up out of that bed could injure a pup. I'm am not judging the reasons behind the litter etc, they are already here after all, I am concerned for the bitches and puppies welfare now. Changes that can be done, not just suggesting we all make mistakes etc.

Best of luck with them

 

[MurphysMinder]

I felt some had been a bit harsh when you first posted OP, but I have to admit your post and pictures have concerned me. Your bitch and pups just are not in ideal conditions, as suggested by Vizslak please try and move her indoors, either to the house or at least a stable, and buy some vet bed.
I would recommend you wean them on to a decent puppy food rather than readybrek, the sugar content is not ideal for young pups. Also are you saying their weight is around 700g at a week old? I may be wrong but I would imagine that lab x retriever pups would not be dissimilar weight to GSD pups,in which case that weight seems quite low, does your bitch have plenty of milk?
To the comment that those of us who have bred pedigree litters are no different to those breeding crosses as we are still putting puppies into the world, I would just say that everyone who is having one of my pups is having one because they want one of my specific line (including someone who is travelling from Spain for one) so no I am not stopping a rescue being rehomed, and I am not touting for new homes on their facebook photos! I am also happy to post a link here to both parents hip scores, if the OP will do the same.

 

[Vizslak]

I was just thinking that re the weights MM having just weighed mine for the eve (I weigh every eve) I came back to check. Vizzies I would think should weigh less than these pups, they are 3 days younger and over the weight of these pups. I know weights vary but it does seem a tad on the light side which is worth keeping an eye on OP. What were they at birth OP? They should double weight in the first week. Mine have doubled today, day 6.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Please don't feed readybrek, it's not good to give pups cereal or cow's milk.

I'm going to add to the reputation of ADD and say I'm horrified that the dam was bred from at 30 months. Poor girl was only a baby herself.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I wouldn't have a problem with breeding from a bitch at 2.5 years CT, for most breeds over 2 is the recommended age, and no older than 4 for a first litter. I would just like to see bitch and pups in a far better environment.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I wouldn't have a problem with breeding from a bitch at 2.5 years CT, for most breeds over 2 is the recommended age, and no older than 4 for a first litter. I would just like to see bitch and pups in a far better environment.

Ooh, my bad, apologies all round, I thought she was 1.5 years, duh. Facepalm.

 

[millimoo]

I've been lurking on this post, and also initially felt for the OP. However I now gave very real concerns for these puppy's.
Who in their right mind puts puppies outside... Period? Especially when the photos suggest the dogs are on site at Wellington School, Taunton.
Not only should the OP be concerned about the cold, she should also be worrying about infections etc.
Can't someone call the local dog warden to make sure that the very helpful advise that's been posted recently is followed.
I'm quite shocked that anyone can think bringing pups into the world this way is ok?????

 

[Dobiegirl]

I really think S4Sugar has been vindicated and her instincts were good, Im horrified at the people who have viewed the pictures and commented on what lovely pups and totally missed how they were being raised and in what conditions. Thank god there are enough people on this forum who can see the truth and I share their worries for these puppies.

 

[Cedars]

The conversation between you and Jen under the black puppy photo has just made me so angry