Should you buy a horse if you cannot offer 24/7 turnout and can only be on livery?

[SO1]

I have been reading some other threads on horse welfare including the arthritis and turnout one.

I lost my pony a few months ago. I am missing having a pony very much after 15 years of having one and would like another.

I always thought I could offer a good home to another new forest however I am now having some doubts as I do not have my own land so I am at the mercy of livery yards within reasonable distance of work and home.

I moved from the only grass livery in the area which was an hour from home on advice from my vet as the fields were not poo picked and the other liveries did not have good worming programs in place which resulted with my pony despite being on a proper worming program with testing getting very ill with tapeworm and almost needing hospital care. In the end he was needing tapewormer every 3 months. The final straw came when one of the horses died of sycamore poisoning.

So now I will not keep a horse anywhere where there is sycamore, the fields are not poo picked and the liveries do not have worming programs.

I moved to a nice part livery and no problems with sycamore or worms as fields are clean and liveries test. However it is not 24/7 turnout but it all year round turnout. The horses go out every day in herd turnout whatever the weather for 7 or 8 hours. There is grass all year round because they are able to rest and rotate by not having 24/7 turnrout and is not a mud pit. All horses are checked when caught in and they come in around 3 as the staff finish at 5pm and that allows enough time for horses to be caught in and checked and vets to be called if there is an emergency and it be dealt with before staff finish for the day. In addition there is a late night check at 10pm. I think the standard of care is good, clean beds, plenty of hay and they will soak if needed. There is no bitching or mean people on the yard.

I know that track livery is really the best way to keep horses. There are no track liveries within reasonable distance I am willing to travel 1.5 hours if on part livery. I don't want to travel more 1.5 hours as I like to go to the yard after work and don't want to be home later than 11pm.

I cannot really move to another part of the country where there are track liveries because my parents are elderly I need to be able to get to them within 3 hours in case they need help in an emergency and also to visit them.

I earn a good salary but have a job that requires flexibility and therefore due to that plus my family I need part livery so DIY is no longer an option but I have funds for assistance in the same way it was 15 years ago.

I always thought I could offer a good home but really should anyone who cannot offer 24/7 turnout be buying horses?

If I don't buy then do I continue to ride at the RS they have very limited turnout there not even daily all year turnout. So then I am supporting a business that does not provide optimum turnout and still contributing to the welfare issues.

It is a really difficult issue to balance in my brain. I love riding and I love horses and I want them to be happy and healthy. My mental health benefits enormously from riding and horses have been part of my life for 45 years.

So the moral dilemma is should only people with their own land who can keep their horses in the optimum way have horses as anyone on livery even the perfect place could get that taken away from them should the yard close.

I probably will buy knowing I cannot offer the perfect turnout set up. What I can offer is a secure loving kind home with daily turnout and vet care when needed. With the understanding that yes it is selfish in the same way that people bring children into this world knowing that they cannot give them the perfect life.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Tracks in fields only suits certain horses! Most high level competition horses and racehorses get very little turnout. For me, as long as my boy gets a few hours turnout per day he is happy. I think as long as it works for you, its no one elses place to judge ?

 

[Michen]

Lol, just shipped my horse across the world for his turnout situation to drastically change. Dry lot, 7 hours a day all year around from. Previously wet soggy field in winter for 7 hours then out overnight on good grass in summer.

I would choose a dedicated, caring owner over a "perfect" turnout situation any day and I firmly believe my horse with all his quirks and medical history is better with me than anyone else.

At least, that's how I justify it

I think any horse that landed you as their owner would be the same.

 

[L&M]

It's all about compromise - we are lucky enough to have our own land and stabling, but the compromise is that I have spent the afternoon picking up sycamore pods! Also even with our own land, they still cannot be out 24/7 as parts of the field get too wet in the winter and mine is prone to mud fever. In the summer they come in during the day if the flies are bad, and as we are adjacent to a river the midges are a nightmare from spring onwards.

If I had the option of 24/7 turnout in the summer but limited or none in the winter, or a yard that offered part day turnout all year round, that would be the one I would choose. My horse loves his stable but equally would go potty not having a few hours in a field each day.

I have also been following the same arthritis/turnout thread and think some are too quick too judge. There are pros and cons of any system, and what suits one horse may suit another. My view is that if you feed and exercise the horse accordingly, they will adapt, and certainly do not see any reason you should not return to horse ownership. Good luck!

 

[nagblagger]

I would not have been able to own horses for 40 years if I waited until I owned my own land, still would be horseless.
You have daily turnout for a decent amount of time and the horses are looked after, which is more than some people offer, with nice people. I have read many threads on here where other liveries are the cause of much friction an stress to the horse owner.
Some 24/7 turnouts do not even have a stable for emergencies.
Go horse hunting, start a thread so we can come with you on your journey.

 

[Red-1]

I just updated Rigs' thread, he is now on dry lot turnout, by his own choice. It has meant that I now have to ride every other day to keep him moving, but that is fine.

Mine only ever go out for around 8 hours too, as a BTW! I have my own place so I could keep them as I wish.

As long as they have a leg stretch to roll and then are ridden out (as opposed to ground round in circles) than I think that will keep most horses happy.

 

[Red-1]

Go horse hunting, start a thread so we can come with you on your journey.

Yes, this!

 

[Nari]

So if the only people who should own horses are those with their own land that's suitable for 24/7/365 turnout what do you think will happen to the majority of horses is this country?

I've always tried to find the best option for the horses I have, and that hasn't always been 24/7 turnout. As long as the horse is happy and healthy then that's good enough for me.

 

[splashgirl45]

Daily turnout all year round sounds great to me, 24/7 turnout is not the only way to keep horses. Sometimes it’s better to keep in when flies are at their worst and turnout Overnight, it depends on what part of the country you are in. My last yard allowed us to turnout 24/7 in summer but I’m sure my horse would have been quite Happy to come in as long as she has a nice bed to sleep on and plenty of hay. Th3 yard you have found sounds really good so get shopping ??

 

[Flame_]

You have to have realistic standards. Even if you had your own land something could turn out to be poisonous, next door could decide to become a quad biking race course, the road it's on could become the most popular rat run in the county.... Don't be too hard on yourself, you will give a horse a great home and quality of life. If circumstances conspire to make it impossible to reach wherever you set the bar for your horse care standards just do the best you can because you are absolutely as good as everybody else and certainly better than plenty of horse owners who just don't give a crap.

 

[stangs]

I didn't buy a horse until I had a space at a livery that provides 24/7 turnout, as well as options for box/small paddock rest (but he's also my first horse so I couldn't miss ownership as you must do). I also have enough savings that, should I lose this livery space, I know I can afford to send him to retirement livery where he can continue to live out.

My opinions on turnout are probably quite clear from the other thread. But, what I will say is that if you choose to buy a horse that will be stabled for periods of time, it's worth looking into enrichment.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

My horses have always had daily turnout in winter and 24/7 in summer.

I wouldn’t consider myself a bad owner for this.

 

[BBP]

I am lucky enough to have 24/7 all weather ‘turnout’ in that they have freedom to run and play and interact with each other mud free. My horses are absolutely better off since having this, definitely. But the size of the space is still limited. in their ideal world they would have access to hundreds of acres of varied terrain. So if you wait to buy a horse until you have the perfect scenario, only a very small percent of horses would have a home. I think as long as you are aware of any shortcomings, and try to make their lives as enriching as you can within the limitations that you have, then you are absolutely the right person to own a horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Daily turnout for several hours (6-8 hours) a day year round on well managed grazing or a mooching area is fine, it doesn't have to be 24 hour turnout.

Many horses actually prefer to be stabled part time, despite what the shouty 'stables are cages' brigade rant about.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Turnout for me is a must have. I do not agree with livery yards having no turnout for part of the year and would never choose to keep my horses at a yard that didn't offer some form of turnout 365 days of the year.
I also detest postage stamp size individual turnout.
For me horses need time to be horses and that includes some form of group turnout 365 days a year. Time to play, roll, and just be horses.
The yard I currently keep mine offers 24/7 turnout 365 days a year. I personally bring mine in overnight in the winter months, but they are out in the winter paddocks during the day. Yes there is mud in the winter but these fields are then rested during the summer months when they go out 24/7 in the summer fields.
As long as the yard offers some for of daily turnout throughout the year I think that's sufficient. Good luck with your search OP.

 

[SEL]

Even my horses came in overnight last Feb with all those storms - & they happily plonked themselves in their stables. I'm a huge advocate of 24:7 turnout whilst being pragmatic that it isn't possible in every situation.

Track systems aren't right for every horse either. I'd walk away from anywhere that thought it was ok to have horses in 24:7 for days on end but your yard sounds like most well run part livery yards I've been on.

I think you should start horse hunting ?

 

[SO1]

I think we have to admit sometimes we are selfish and many horse owners have horses for their own pleasure and they are not kept in the way nature intended but in a way that suits us.

Are we really such awful people and just in denial about it?

When I think about orphans and refugees and others who maybe struggling through no fault of their own there are lots of people who are living in really miserable conditions. My pony will have a better quality of life and medical care than a lot of people.

 

[Goldenstar]

I never and I mean never let my horses be out in summer during the day when the horse flys are about .
I am extremely fortunate now to have loads of acres for the number of horses I have and if I wanted they would never need to be a stable .
Atm they come in the morning and are worked them they go back out, in summer they come in in the morning get worked and stand in until the evening and in the wettest part of winter until hunting ends ( mid Febish )they are in with daily exercise and or turnout .
I have a new field about four acres that means I now have a unused field with grass that I can use in February this is game changer and meant last year they where stabled ( with exercise and turnout ) for seven weeks hopefully this year I might never bring them in but it depends on the weather and the horses they certainly let me know when they have had enough last year .
Before that I stabled from November till the end of March .
I never put hay in the field they come in for forage if I think they need it atm they are muzzled all the time they are out except for the day they have hunted .
The crux of the matter is what have you got available.
What’s your experience of what works for you .
I am not a fan of tracks in winter unless they are like the one at Rockley which cost a huge sum of money to set up .
I want my horses as much as is possible to live by eating grass , I want them to be able to browse in hedges .

 

[SO1]

That is interesting as this is your first horse you didn't have the addiction that a lot of us have so in some ways like you said you cannot miss what you have never had.

I am in a gap between horses now so I can reflect on my situation.

Would you ride at a RS or share a horse that did not live out or would you just give up horses if you were not lucky enough to find that horses that were kept that way?

If I accepted that horses should only be stabled for medical reasons and that anything else is cruel I would probably have to give up horses which would be quite difficult as I am fairly heavy addicted.

I don't eat meat as I think factory farming is cruel so animal welfare is important.

I didn't buy a horse until I had a space at a livery that provides 24/7 turnout, as well as options for box/small paddock rest (but he's also my first horse so I couldn't miss ownership as you must do). I also have enough savings that, should I lose this livery space, I know I can afford to send him to retirement livery where he can continue to live out.

My opinions on turnout are probably quite clear from the other thread. But, what I will say is that if you choose to buy a horse that will be stabled for periods of time, it's worth looking into enrichment.

 

[babymare]

Turnout is important but not necessarily 24/7. Day turnout or night turnout(dependent on season) suited my girl well. If you can provide the care and financially ok to provide for horses needs go for it on livery. We would all like to give the perfect living conditions to our horses but sometimes have to make sensible compromise.

 

[JoannaC]

I don't think you need to worry Saskia you will give another horse a fab home just as Homey had. No we can't keep them in perfect conditions as that would be them roaming for miles on non rich pasture. I do love my set up but it also means I don't ride very much as i'm always too knackered by the time i've done everything so mine are too fat which means i'm having to bring them in during the day at the moment to keep them off the grass. They still get plenty of turnout as are out all night but they do like to come in for a lie down and even when I leave them to choose they spend a fair bit of time in the stables. I think you should start keeping your eyes peeled for the lucky pony who gets to be part of your next chapter

 

[DabDab]

Haven't read the other thread but having seen, owned and cared for a variety of horses in a variety of living situations over the years I am always deeply sceptical of sweeping statements about a certain set of living conditions being perfect for every horse.

My own horses these days do largely have the choice of being out 24/7 and they seem to prefer the stable option in the mid-winter nights of relentless rain and the summer heat and flies. Granted I am not offering them 'perfect' turnout because it's not acres and acres and there is mud, but then who is.

Life is short - go find a new pony

 

[marmalade76]

I used to keep mine out 24/7/365 but at the time I had the use of a lot of ground/several fields. I now have my own (rented) yard but don't keep them out all the time, the ground gets too wet in the winter and I've found they actually rather like coming in during the day in the summer - they're away from the flies and they usually have a midday snooze.

The yard you described sounds rather nice. As said, there's always a compromise somewhere but what would be complete no nos for me would be tiny postage stamp individual paddocks with no shade or shelter or no turnout at all.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

You sound as though you have the perfect set up. Neither of my horses would be happy out 24/7 all year. They are fine in summer but once the weather changes they want in. I can leave them out if I want but they would hate it.

 

[Peglo]

I have my own land and stables and I still stable at night through the winter. My horses would rather come in and get a break from the wind. And rain.

We’re lucky that we don’t get flies up here like folk south get but as someone else said, theirs comes in to get away from the heat and flies. There’s many conditions which make it more comfortable for them to be in.

I’m not going to lie, your horse at livery got more attention than mine get at home. Your livery sounds great.

and your willing to move your horse to up to 1hr 30 mins away so I’m positive if your horse needed 24/7 turnout for medical reasons you would do your all to provide for them. I agree, don’t over think this and get yourself a new horse.

 

[SEL]

That is interesting as this is your first horse you didn't have the addiction that a lot of us have so in some ways like you said you cannot miss what you have never had.

I am in a gap between horses now so I can reflect on my situation.

Would you ride at a RS or share a horse that did not live out or would you just give up horses if you were not lucky enough to find that horses that were kept that way?

If I accepted that horses should only be stabled for medical reasons and that anything else is cruel I would probably have to give up horses which would be quite difficult as I am fairly heavy addicted.

I don't eat meat as I think factory farming is cruel so animal welfare is important.

When I had two and they were both off work I got lessons at a local RS - I needed to be kicked back into shape but it isn't the same emotional connection.

I am a huge, huge supporter of 24:7 turnout but I've found most horses are ok with stables if they're in a routine with their friends and so long as they do get time to run about and kick up their heels. It only really gets difficult if you've got a condition that needs movement.

 

[Bowie]

When mine arrived at livery yard 6 years ago she was originally out 24/7. She was happy. Then she had to be out all summer (6 months) and 7/8 hours day in winter. I did worry. But she loved her stable. Perfectly happy in her field and stable. Perhaps it’s about the yard itself. I am really lucky to be at a fabulous place where she wants for nothing and is loved by the ladies on the yard. So start a thread ‘looking for a new horse’?.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

Mine are on a small yard, we don't have a school or anything. I'm very lucky that I'm free to turn them out for as long as I want. At the moment they are still out 24/7 except for if the weather is particularly wet and windy, when I give them the choice to come in, one of mine is old and I just let him do what ever makes him happy, if he heads off for the stables they come in, his young friend doesn't need asking twice to go with him, he absolutely hates getting rained on and will reverse across the whole field just to avoid having the wind and rain in his face. As it gets further into winter they will come in over night just to save some of the grass until around March when they can start staying out again depending how wet the ground is. In summer they also came in during the day for the really hot days because their stables were cooler than the field. They seem perfectly happy with this and so am I.

I did go to one yard where the turnout situation was far worse than I was originally led to believe, every time there was so much as a shower they were in that day and then the next couple of days as well to allow the ground to dry even if the weather on those next days was glorious sunshine and if there was another bit of rain at the end of those days you'd be in for another 2 days to let the ground dry again and so on. One of the other liveries told me it had been a good winter because they'd only had to stay in for 2 continuous months with zero turn out. Normally they were in totally for at least 3 months with no turnout bar going in an all weather area the size of about 4 stables for 10 mins while you mucked out. It was ridiculous and I lasted under a month there which was a shame because they had fantastic off road riding but if I had no choice but to keep my ponies like that I'd rather sell them to someone who could give them a better life or PTS.

Ideally I'd like a barn or large shelter with hard standing in the field and they could just come and go as they pleased, but we don't live in an ideal world so I will just do the best I can with what is available. My ponies seem perfectly happy with this.

 

[palo1]

It is not simple. One of my horses has a problem with 24/7 turnout in that something outside, in the summer gives her an allergic (respiratory) reaction. At the moment I can't bring her in and wouldn't particularly choose to leave her in, even on our new hard standing multi-horse yard. So for that horse at least, 24/7 turnout (which is possible here) isn't the best thing. Other horses might 'prefer' 24/7 turnout but in order to be in company/social groups one or more may have compromises due to weight/grass considerations. Really there is no one size fits all for horses. My herd clamour to come in for hours in the summer and play stupid games in the field in winter - leading to churned up grazing etc. You have to manage both your own circumstances and your horses. Go shopping - Life is short!!

 

[Zoeypxo]

I think all day turnout in big fields with other horses is great for a livery yard!
mine would prefer that than 24hr turnout in individual paddocks.
The problem is like a few others have said when yards dont allow any turnout every time it rains. Then 2 days in after that for fields to dry.. then it rains again and so on!
My horse on restricted turnout got gastric ulcers and was dangerous to handle, kicked me in the head and knocked me unconscious.