Michen
Well-Known Member
Totally agree!
Showjumping height measurements, cup or pole?
- Thread starter ElleSkywalker
- Start date
Totally agree!
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Yes, I think that's the difference, it's not being able to prepare for your class and enter appropriately.
the lower BE classes might be named after the xc heights now but you can look in the rule book and predict what you'll be getting in the SJ. At unaff if there's no rule book it ought to be a case of what you see is what you get IMO.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I think the key here is know your venues, which build big wide courses, which are underheight and which are about right.
Lillian_paddington
Well-Known Member
I think that’s pretty mean! Around here even at big venues that hold affiliated competitions the unaffiliated shows are usually built small, so an 80 class is usually 70-80. And I remember doing one 70-80 round where the first jump in the double couldn’t have been above 40! I wouldn’t mind them building a bit bigger to be honest - as you say, if you enter a class you should be jumping the height specified, with perhaps a couple of smaller first jumps.
I agree it’s about knowing your venues and also your competitions - clear round is usually built smaller than unaffiliated for example.
I agree it’s about knowing your venues and also your competitions - clear round is usually built smaller than unaffiliated for example.
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
ESW, you need to come and stay late Sept. The comp I took B Fuzzy to today was for her confidence building in a 60 class. Just about all were 50, a couple even lower, final one was 70 but that was optional. They have another late Sept! X
Bernster
Well-Known Member
Where was that TFF?
its hard to get much less than 50 tbh so often that would be the only class you could do if starting out and not comfortable at higher than that. I’d be miffed if I entered a 70 and they were all 80+. I know it probably makes no difference to the horse but it makes a difference to me and how I ride.
its hard to get much less than 50 tbh so often that would be the only class you could do if starting out and not comfortable at higher than that. I’d be miffed if I entered a 70 and they were all 80+. I know it probably makes no difference to the horse but it makes a difference to me and how I ride.
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
I'll ping you details, but it's where I was today on my Facebook write up x
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
You could try Brook farm. They do a cross poles, 40cm, 50cm 60cm and then go up in 5cm increments up to 95cm for the evening shows. The weekend one used to have a 55cm at one point but they don't seem to do that atm. I've gone there to do the 70cm and 75cm and been close to losing the will to live as it takes forever. I haven't got out yet this year but they are doing allocated times.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Just another thought, measure your fences at home, don't trust the markings on the side, so you get a feel for heights. I once went to Patchetts years ago and lots of people in the course walk were complaining it was overheight. They came in with a measuring stick and it wasn't but it was up to height, wide in places and technical in a tight indoor. Some other local venues didn't build up to height and some peoples' perception of what the height looked like was off.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I do think the small classes that are there for nervous and novice horses and riders really ought to be on the smaller side of their height ranges. Otherwise it's a bit mean and makes having the 50cm class kind of meaningless no? People in the 50cm class are going in there for a reason.
Elle I thought I was the dogs bollox when I jumped Granny horse over a single 40cm jump at home. ? As far as I'm concerned if you can even begin to tackle a course at 50cm you're some kind of superhero. ❤ If someone had put my little jump up to 50cm I'd have died off.
Elle I thought I was the dogs bollox when I jumped Granny horse over a single 40cm jump at home. ? As far as I'm concerned if you can even begin to tackle a course at 50cm you're some kind of superhero. ❤ If someone had put my little jump up to 50cm I'd have died off.
JennBags
HHOSS Wonder Woman
Absolutely NOT a failure, you did completely the right thing, the venue and organisation sounds appalling and you still had a learning experience which was not to go back there! It's a huge difference and totally unacceptable if they're aiming the competition at the young and nervous.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
We would have had to withdraw too as it is a big ask for an 11.3 pony starting out to jump at that level, it is simply unacceptable in a learning situation regardless of age and size of pony. I agree we sometimes need a push out of our comfort zone but that is maybe 1 0r 2 at the end not the whole course
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Having built courses for 50/60cm - its near impossible to add anything slightly interesting and to do a spread so it rarely stays at 50cm. I was guilty of having a big 50cm when I did it. It caused no issues as a horse has no idea about the difference between 50/60cm. Only the rider does.....
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
But should a 50cm be ‘interesting’? It’s for nervous riders and/or baby horses.
It’s naughty and reckless to deliberately build ‘big’, if by big you mean over the stated height.
It’s naughty and reckless to deliberately build ‘big’, if by big you mean over the stated height.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
The 5cm toleranance was bought in to help people progress as well. The Brits went through a stage of being dismal on the International scene at championships in the sjing. They increased the heights of the SJ at national level to get people better and raise the standard. Hence Advanced went to 1.30m while 4* max height is only 1.25m for FEI level. The only place this doesnt quite match is at 2* because its tending to be built more at 1.15m now whereas our novices only have 2 fences at 1.15m.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Depends where you measure it to...... I measured to hole that day rather than top of the pole. Thats where the flexibility comes in with course design. Anyway, after that day I won't do it anymore so everyone is safe in the SW.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I do think running under national rules versus unaffiliated 50/60cm is quite different clientele though and is unfair to build over height.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I don't personally think it's particularly appropriate for a philosophy and attitude used to improve the top levels to be applied to 50cm courses?
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I don't disagree,that answer was more around the why is a BE80 not a BE80 as has two fences at 85.
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But even BE80 wasn't exactly brought in as part of a plan to build up a national team!
Maesto's Girl
Well-Known Member
I am currently on round 2 of building our jumping confidence (madam got a tad TOO excited around November last year so we had to go back to basics) and am lucky to have found a nice venue that does fences pretty much up to height and spreads/oxers do not come in to the 65, fillers in at 75 (although these are built to the side of relevant jumps so they are in the line of sight). I agree courses should be up to height if actual height specified, but if it says fences NOT EXCEEDING then that height is the absolute maximum they should be - especially at lower height unaffiliated as it really is for novices to get their confidence up
ElleSkywalker
As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
I wouldn't agree that is no difference between 50 and 60. A course at 50 max most horses can step over or jump like a raised trot pole. At 60 they most certainly need to jump it. Also this course was billed 50 max not 50 min. I got the impression the course builder, whose impressive credentials were repeatedly quoted at me, felt building such a small course beneath them and thus purposely made it difficult. Also 50% of this class did not complete and a large no in the next class that should have been 60 but was 70 did not complete either.
I totally get and agree than in BE a few should be slightly bigger as preparation for moving up but can't get my head round why on earth BS don't name the classes after the height of the majority or max height of the jumps?!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I am picturing LEC as one of the dragon instructors I came across at PC camp back in the day, yelling ‘Kick on, don’t be wet!’ at combinations who were less than confident about leaving the ground...
May be quite wrong on that assessment, of course
. Mind you, that was in the SW.
May be quite wrong on that assessment, of course
. Mind you, that was in the SW.
ElleSkywalker
As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
Am sure LEC is utterly delightful but yes, scary PC instructor springs to mind!
Again might be totally wrong but newly qualified overly keen course builder wanting to get a rep for building 'up to height' and tricky courses, possibly a former eventer/SJ-er who has retrained to earn cash that doesn't include standing about in all weathers teaching or being thrown off badly behaved clients horses springs to mind for the builder of Saturdays course!
Again might be totally wrong but newly qualified overly keen course builder wanting to get a rep for building 'up to height' and tricky courses, possibly a former eventer/SJ-er who has retrained to earn cash that doesn't include standing about in all weathers teaching or being thrown off badly behaved clients horses springs to mind for the builder of Saturdays course!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I am picturing LEC as one of the dragon instructors I came across at PC camp back in the day, yelling ‘Kick on, don’t be wet!’ at combinations who were less than confident about leaving the ground...
May be quite wrong on that assessment, of course
It may be worth pointing out at this stage that there was no 50cm at the shows I used to go to in the SW back in the day. Old fashioned horseshows for pony club/riding club etc with showing, jumping and gymkhana events.
Jumping was novice, 12.2 and under, 13.2 and under, 14.2 and under and open. The novice which was the smallest class was usually about 2'3 then up in 3" increments so by the time got to 14.2 you were jumping 3' going up in the jump off which run as a separate round so lots of opportunity to put the poles up.
There would be spreads and combinations and a red wall and don't ask me why but the first fence was always a rustic with a brush filler.
So even on your 12.2 pony you started at 2'3 which a quick google shows in 68.58cm so those old fashioned scary pony club instructors are probably holding their hands up in horror at a 50cm or god forbid 40cm classes.
On the plus side there were no mad fillers so aside from the aforementioned red wall and brush, some planks or white gates was as creative as they got. Once you'd respooked your horse with these you were set. I've recently jumpied butterflies, sheep, rainbows, ladybirds and tigers which with current horse being spooky makes every round an adventure into the unknown.
Bit blurry as scanned from old photos but first fence - brush
The red wall
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
none of the above! I am a qualified riding coach but i hate teaching so never bothered. I did it mostly for my own development and to see if I could. It was back when you could get lottery funding to do coaching qualifications so it cost me £150. As for scary - nah just pretty blunt.
I do understand nerves though. I have lost my confidence badly, managed to regain it and it’s still a constant battle but I think I am nearly there in sorting it having had some serious help from a sports psych who gave me a plan and weirdly from seeing a Michael Jordan quote which has actually made me think a lot!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Just another thought. The unaffiliated round here keep the course the same all through the day only putting poles up or bringing fillers in as the classes progress. I often get there and before unloading, walk the course at a lower height and watch a couple of horses to see how the distances are riding.
When i come to do my round I'm seeing the actual height from the back of a 16.2 so it doesn't look as big.
When i come to do my round I'm seeing the actual height from the back of a 16.2 so it doesn't look as big.
Chippers1
Well-Known Member
I've also been known to do this ? but from a 14hh they still look a little big ?
SmallSteps
Well-Known Member
Think we're confusing two issues here. BS do name the class after the majority of the jumps (well actually they "name" them BN, disco, newc, fox, talent seekers etc. but I knew what you meant). The classess are often run as single phase so the first six fences are the first round, of which the majority are at height, and fence 7-12 are the jump off so two holes or 10cm bigger. If its two phase then fences 1-8 are majority at class height, fences 9-14 are the JO, which is 10cm bigger. Haters gonna hate but we've always stuck the fences up a bit for the jump off. Similarly fence off a tricky corner or into a double will often be a bit smaller, uphill fence ride a bit bigger etc.
Unaffiliated though the point is to still know what you're getting. You don't need to have a spread or a filler in a 50cm, you need everyone to have a lovely time and if they all want to jump clear then great, let's have 20 clears the BBC isn't filming the jump off. Whether it's affiliated, unaffiliated or international unless it's grand prix day you just want everyone to finish more confident than they started. No one ever walked the 50cm then complained that it's under height, they're there to practice warming up, going in, getting round. First two fences should be max 40cm