Shwmae horse products

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Quote taken from the companies FB page - obviously have not had time to remove it yet!!

(name removed) How about you send out the onesie you still owe me from months ago ?
 
How long have shwmae been runnin?. I'm bit confused as I thought it was three years but a post on their facebook page is from a customer who has a hood from them that's three and half years. Also SMF apparently been a photography student and worked a life time with racehorses. That's a lot from leaving school at 16 and starting a business and 17 half/18
 
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
 
I have been in correspondence with Claire Williams who is the Executive Director of the British Equestrian Trade Association (BETA), whilst as reported in H&H Shwmae Horse Products is NOT a member of BETA. Claire is obviously up-to-speed on the retail and consumer aspects of the equine industry.

A number of posts on this tread, have said that Shwmae have tried to use the "bespoke" excuse to wriggle out of refunding customers, below may be of interest. I posed the question to BETA, as to what their and a senior Trading Standards Officer, who they approached for advice on this issue.


"
I know you have the issue with the bespoke but again in the opinion of my trading standards officer and reflecting my own comments if a consumer is merely choosing an option from an existing selection of standard sizes, it does not matter whether the item is being made in response to an order; it is not 'made to the customer's specification' and is therefore not exempt from the cancellation requirements.

Obviously there is no guidance covering these specific items, but the guidance issued by the OFT states as follows, with regard to when consumers do not have the right to cancel:
• the supply of goods made to the customer’s own specification, such as custom-made blinds or curtains. But this exception does not apply to upgrade options, such as choosing alloy wheels when buying a car, or opting for add-on memory or choosing a combination of standard off-the shelf components when ordering a PC
If you think of the computer example - that is put together when the consumer places the order, but is not made to the customer's specification.

When the Regulations first came in, a similar matter was raised with DTI (as they were then) with regard to a trader who was making cast iron door furniture to order from a list of available styles. They confirmed that, as the items were being purchased from an existing list, they were not bespoke, and the consumer did have the right to cancel.

With regard to items such as the onsie, if the consumer merely selects from a drop down menu, it is unlikely to be exempt from the cancellation rights. If they sent the exact measurements of the horse for the item to be 'made to measure' then the customer is likely to lose their right to cancel.

Has anyone raised a formal complaint with Paypal on behalf of a group – they are usually (like ebay) pretty keen on avoiding a bad name so raising a formal “group” complaint about a long standing issue may get you further.

FYI if a trader persistently breaches the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, or any other consumer protection legislation, then Trading Standards can get them to sign an Undertaking under the Enterprise Act, which is effectively a promise to trade fairly in the future. If the trader breaches the undertaking, they can be taken before the courts. A breach of a court order is contempt of court, which is punishable by imprisonment.

Generally it would be down to the local trading standards service to advise a trader, and to take Enterprise Act action if appropriate, but that is down to the individual Authority.

Consumers are advised to contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline (on 0845 4 040 05 06) in the first instance for advice on how to pursue any complaint they may have against an individual traders.

If a consumer wants to pursue their complaint through the courts they can find out how do so at Money Claims Online https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview "

• Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, a law made in the 1970s, your credit card company must take responsibility if things go wrong with a purchase ( ie. You don’t receive what your bought) providing the individual purchase cost over £100. This amounts to legal protection which was put in place so that you're never in the position of paying debt for something you didn't receive or wasn't as it should've been.
• Please note that this doesn’t apply to transactions made on debit cards nor are you covered paying via third parties such as PayPal, WorldPay or Google Checkout. Though these can have their own refund systems, they aren't as strong as the legal protection of Section 75. To make a claim you need to contact your credit card company rather than Visa or Mastercard. Ie, if you have a Barclays card, go to Barclays. Template letters for making a claim under Section 75 are available online – BETA has one available.
• If you can’t invoke Section 75 there's valuable hidden protection on Visa, Mastercard and Amex credit cards (under £100) and most debit and charge cards. It's called 'chargeback' and means if you don't receive the goods you bought, you may be able to get your money back. Any claims for a chargeback however must be lodged within 120 days of the purchase and the advantage is that there is no minimum to the amount that can be claimed.
• It's important to know that chargeback is part of Visa, Mastercard and Amex's internal rules and NOT enshrined in law.
• For extra security buy off companies that are a member of a reputable trade body such as BETA, as they can sometimes help in negotiating a solution to a dispute or point you in the right direction.
• Be aware of your rights under the distance selling regulations. A company has 30 days to complete the order from the day after the consumer sent the order to you. If this is not possible the retailer must advise you before the deadline. If the goods don’t arrive in time you are entitled to a full refund, including the postage and packaging, unless you agree to a new deadline to give them more time. Under the legislation a retailer has 30 days in which to refund you your money from the date of cancellation. A cancellation must be in a written form (emails are acceptable) and not just verbally.

In the case where products are faulty or “not fit for purpose” then this falls under the Consumer protection act. If goods are either of these (faulty or nffp) then the buyer is entitled to a refund.
I always refer to Trading Standards to when in doubt so suggest you talk to your local office and ask them for guidance."
 
JennyConnor said:
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
Click to expand...

a rival company stole our photo, that's why we have so many unhappy customers.

The courier was lying about your tracking number not existing. They do it a lot this time of year

Who did you email you say never replied to you>? you must have emailed the wrong department. im not the email department.

I am worried who you ordered from as we dont sell off YouTube.
 
JennyConnor said:
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
Click to expand...

People who order from email addresses they've created exclusively to order something from Shwmae (I know I always make a dedicated email account for each thing I order off the internet, doesn't everyone?!), which then don't seem to be accepting return emails from Shwmae about stuff-ups and the like.
 
Just a lurker but this looks in need of a tune, in the style of The Twelve Days of Christmas (if the whole saga wasn't so horrendous)

JennyConnor said:
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
Click to expand...
 
JennyConnor said:
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
Click to expand...

When i eventually got my order when i had a snuggy rug off them 2 years ago i had the following excuses over a period of over 5 weeks:

- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern (well, technically i didn't as they just sent me it in a different fabric as it was out of stock but they didn't bother to tell me beforehand!)
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...' (although they did used to reply if i publicly wrote on their page just after deleting what i'd posted!)
- We didn't receive an email off you
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything (actually said they'd lost horse at this point - if they did then i'm very sorry but it was just another in a long line of excuses to come)
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking (but didn't - as for 3 weeks was still not posted!)
 
JennyConnor said:
So far I list their excuses as:

- False tracking number / no tracking number given
- Courier has not yet collected / lost in post / at the depot
- Material is out of stock / not enough material came in / we don't have your chosen pattern
- You didn't order in the correct working day timescale to make / post
- We didn't see your FB message 'Please PM us on FB' - 'We don't read PM's on FB please email...'
- We didn't receive an email off you
- Your email went into junk
- We've emailed back, didn't you receive it?
- We haven't had a call off you
- We called but no one answered / the number was incorrect
- One of our horses has been ill, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We've been out showing, so we haven't had time to make anything
- We'll ship out the next working day and give you the tracking


Please feel free to add to this list!!
Click to expand...

I was sent this load of rubbish by Jessica on 16 Oct 2013 after asking several times about the return of the altered onsie

"This is a message to explain that your parcel has been returned to our welsh depo due to a mix up in the two depos while we moved, along with 30 other parcels your parcel is set to be re delivered tomorrow or Friday,

Apologies for this we did not realise until the new owners of the house let us know"

Nothing arrived until Nov 19 2013 ...
 
cross said:
I have been in correspondence with Claire Williams who is the Executive Director of the British Equestrian Trade Association (BETA), whilst as reported in H&H Shwmae Horse Products is NOT a member of BETA. Claire is obviously up-to-speed on the retail and consumer aspects of the equine industry.

A number of posts on this tread, have said that Shwmae have tried to use the "bespoke" excuse to wriggle out of refunding customers, below may be of interest. I posed the question to BETA, as to what their and a senior Trading Standards Officer, who they approached for advice on this issue.


"
I know you have the issue with the bespoke but again in the opinion of my trading standards officer and reflecting my own comments if a consumer is merely choosing an option from an existing selection of standard sizes, it does not matter whether the item is being made in response to an order; it is not 'made to the customer's specification' and is therefore not exempt from the cancellation requirements.

Obviously there is no guidance covering these specific items, but the guidance issued by the OFT states as follows, with regard to when consumers do not have the right to cancel:
• the supply of goods made to the customer’s own specification, such as custom-made blinds or curtains. But this exception does not apply to upgrade options, such as choosing alloy wheels when buying a car, or opting for add-on memory or choosing a combination of standard off-the shelf components when ordering a PC
If you think of the computer example - that is put together when the consumer places the order, but is not made to the customer's specification.

When the Regulations first came in, a similar matter was raised with DTI (as they were then) with regard to a trader who was making cast iron door furniture to order from a list of available styles. They confirmed that, as the items were being purchased from an existing list, they were not bespoke, and the consumer did have the right to cancel.

With regard to items such as the onsie, if the consumer merely selects from a drop down menu, it is unlikely to be exempt from the cancellation rights. If they sent the exact measurements of the horse for the item to be 'made to measure' then the customer is likely to lose their right to cancel.

Has anyone raised a formal complaint with Paypal on behalf of a group – they are usually (like ebay) pretty keen on avoiding a bad name so raising a formal “group” complaint about a long standing issue may get you further.

FYI if a trader persistently breaches the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, or any other consumer protection legislation, then Trading Standards can get them to sign an Undertaking under the Enterprise Act, which is effectively a promise to trade fairly in the future. If the trader breaches the undertaking, they can be taken before the courts. A breach of a court order is contempt of court, which is punishable by imprisonment.

Generally it would be down to the local trading standards service to advise a trader, and to take Enterprise Act action if appropriate, but that is down to the individual Authority.

Consumers are advised to contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline (on 0845 4 040 05 06) in the first instance for advice on how to pursue any complaint they may have against an individual traders.

If a consumer wants to pursue their complaint through the courts they can find out how do so at Money Claims Online https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview "

• Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, a law made in the 1970s, your credit card company must take responsibility if things go wrong with a purchase ( ie. You don’t receive what your bought) providing the individual purchase cost over £100. This amounts to legal protection which was put in place so that you're never in the position of paying debt for something you didn't receive or wasn't as it should've been.
• Please note that this doesn’t apply to transactions made on debit cards nor are you covered paying via third parties such as PayPal, WorldPay or Google Checkout. Though these can have their own refund systems, they aren't as strong as the legal protection of Section 75. To make a claim you need to contact your credit card company rather than Visa or Mastercard. Ie, if you have a Barclays card, go to Barclays. Template letters for making a claim under Section 75 are available online – BETA has one available.
• If you can’t invoke Section 75 there's valuable hidden protection on Visa, Mastercard and Amex credit cards (under £100) and most debit and charge cards. It's called 'chargeback' and means if you don't receive the goods you bought, you may be able to get your money back. Any claims for a chargeback however must be lodged within 120 days of the purchase and the advantage is that there is no minimum to the amount that can be claimed.
• It's important to know that chargeback is part of Visa, Mastercard and Amex's internal rules and NOT enshrined in law.
• For extra security buy off companies that are a member of a reputable trade body such as BETA, as they can sometimes help in negotiating a solution to a dispute or point you in the right direction.
• Be aware of your rights under the distance selling regulations. A company has 30 days to complete the order from the day after the consumer sent the order to you. If this is not possible the retailer must advise you before the deadline. If the goods don’t arrive in time you are entitled to a full refund, including the postage and packaging, unless you agree to a new deadline to give them more time. Under the legislation a retailer has 30 days in which to refund you your money from the date of cancellation. A cancellation must be in a written form (emails are acceptable) and not just verbally.

In the case where products are faulty or “not fit for purpose” then this falls under the Consumer protection act. If goods are either of these (faulty or nffp) then the buyer is entitled to a refund.
I always refer to Trading Standards to when in doubt so suggest you talk to your local office and ask them for guidance."
Click to expand...


Nice one Cross. Think this should be posted once a day to ensure people see it !!
 
cross said:
I have been in correspondence with Claire Williams who is the Executive Director of the British Equestrian Trade Association (BETA), whilst as reported in H&H Shwmae Horse Products is NOT a member of BETA. Claire is obviously up-to-speed on the retail and consumer aspects of the equine industry.

A number of posts on this tread, have said that Shwmae have tried to use the "bespoke" excuse to wriggle out of refunding customers, below may be of interest. I posed the question to BETA, as to what their and a senior Trading Standards Officer, who they approached for advice on this issue.


"
I know you have the issue with the bespoke but again in the opinion of my trading standards officer and reflecting my own comments if a consumer is merely choosing an option from an existing selection of standard sizes, it does not matter whether the item is being made in response to an order; it is not 'made to the customer's specification' and is therefore not exempt from the cancellation requirements.

Obviously there is no guidance covering these specific items, but the guidance issued by the OFT states as follows, with regard to when consumers do not have the right to cancel:
• the supply of goods made to the customer’s own specification, such as custom-made blinds or curtains. But this exception does not apply to upgrade options, such as choosing alloy wheels when buying a car, or opting for add-on memory or choosing a combination of standard off-the shelf components when ordering a PC
If you think of the computer example - that is put together when the consumer places the order, but is not made to the customer's specification.

When the Regulations first came in, a similar matter was raised with DTI (as they were then) with regard to a trader who was making cast iron door furniture to order from a list of available styles. They confirmed that, as the items were being purchased from an existing list, they were not bespoke, and the consumer did have the right to cancel.

With regard to items such as the onsie, if the consumer merely selects from a drop down menu, it is unlikely to be exempt from the cancellation rights. If they sent the exact measurements of the horse for the item to be 'made to measure' then the customer is likely to lose their right to cancel.

Has anyone raised a formal complaint with Paypal on behalf of a group – they are usually (like ebay) pretty keen on avoiding a bad name so raising a formal “group” complaint about a long standing issue may get you further.

FYI if a trader persistently breaches the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, or any other consumer protection legislation, then Trading Standards can get them to sign an Undertaking under the Enterprise Act, which is effectively a promise to trade fairly in the future. If the trader breaches the undertaking, they can be taken before the courts. A breach of a court order is contempt of court, which is punishable by imprisonment.

Generally it would be down to the local trading standards service to advise a trader, and to take Enterprise Act action if appropriate, but that is down to the individual Authority.

Consumers are advised to contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline (on 0845 4 040 05 06) in the first instance for advice on how to pursue any complaint they may have against an individual traders.

If a consumer wants to pursue their complaint through the courts they can find out how do so at Money Claims Online https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview "

• Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, a law made in the 1970s, your credit card company must take responsibility if things go wrong with a purchase ( ie. You don’t receive what your bought) providing the individual purchase cost over £100. This amounts to legal protection which was put in place so that you're never in the position of paying debt for something you didn't receive or wasn't as it should've been.
• Please note that this doesn’t apply to transactions made on debit cards nor are you covered paying via third parties such as PayPal, WorldPay or Google Checkout. Though these can have their own refund systems, they aren't as strong as the legal protection of Section 75. To make a claim you need to contact your credit card company rather than Visa or Mastercard. Ie, if you have a Barclays card, go to Barclays. Template letters for making a claim under Section 75 are available online – BETA has one available.
• If you can’t invoke Section 75 there's valuable hidden protection on Visa, Mastercard and Amex credit cards (under £100) and most debit and charge cards. It's called 'chargeback' and means if you don't receive the goods you bought, you may be able to get your money back. Any claims for a chargeback however must be lodged within 120 days of the purchase and the advantage is that there is no minimum to the amount that can be claimed.
• It's important to know that chargeback is part of Visa, Mastercard and Amex's internal rules and NOT enshrined in law.
• For extra security buy off companies that are a member of a reputable trade body such as BETA, as they can sometimes help in negotiating a solution to a dispute or point you in the right direction.
• Be aware of your rights under the distance selling regulations. A company has 30 days to complete the order from the day after the consumer sent the order to you. If this is not possible the retailer must advise you before the deadline. If the goods don’t arrive in time you are entitled to a full refund, including the postage and packaging, unless you agree to a new deadline to give them more time. Under the legislation a retailer has 30 days in which to refund you your money from the date of cancellation. A cancellation must be in a written form (emails are acceptable) and not just verbally.

In the case where products are faulty or “not fit for purpose” then this falls under the Consumer protection act. If goods are either of these (faulty or nffp) then the buyer is entitled to a refund.
I always refer to Trading Standards to when in doubt so suggest you talk to your local office and ask them for guidance."
Click to expand...

Very valuable information - but I suspect that rather a lot of customers will be so fed up of chasing and hassle that they simply won't bother - which is a shame :(.

Thanks for posting this.

P
 
I would just like to send Seasonal Greetings Shwmae Products Ltd, and I look forward to seeing them in the New Year in court, unless of course they have radical change of heart and respond accordingly to my letter. :o
 
Corner Mad House said:
I would just like to send Seasonal Greetings Shwmae Products Ltd, and I look forward to seeing them in the New Year in court, unless of course they have radical change of heart and respond accordingly to my letter. :o
Click to expand...

I doubt it. She has been very rude to me on other posts. she says I have a vendetta and even digged that I was on benefits (that's how I read it)

SMF I know you will read this. FYI I'm not on benefits and never had been
 
I'm not a customer of theirs (and never will be!). I just can't get over the way they've spoken to people who only want a straight, simple answer.

It's never nice admitting you've made a mistake, but own it, put it right and say sorry.
 
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