"Silver Dun".. it's grey.

Although I understand why exact descriptions maybe necessary for breeding or (possibly) showing, to me they will always simply be black, bay, brown, chestnut, grey, dun, roan, skewbald, piebald or spotted.

Other than the above exceptions, why do people worry? The horse doesn't care ...
 
The main reason is for health, quite a lot of colours/patterns are associated with health problems, so it helps both owner and breeders to know what any associated risks might be.
So grey (and on double dilutes) - melanoma
LPLP congenital night blindness
LWO - foals with not functioning gut
Splash white- deafness.

I also don't think it is ok to make your horse sound like it is 'rare' to sell it for more money, telling the buyer they are going to stand out on a roan TB for ROR showing when actually it is just a bay 3yo going grey seems pretty unethical to me!

And well, some of us just like things to be factual, it isn't a worry per se, just interesting how and why some phenotypes happen.
 
ester said:
The main reason is for health, quite a lot of colours/patterns are associated with health problems, so it helps both owner and breeders to know what any associated risks might be.
So grey (and on double dilutes) - melanoma
LPLP congenital night blindness
LWO - foals with not functioning gut
Splash white- deafness.

I also don't think it is ok to make your horse sound like it is 'rare' to sell it for more money, telling the buyer they are going to stand out on a roan TB for ROR showing when actually it is just a bay 3yo going grey seems pretty unethical to me!

And well, some of us just like things to be factual, it isn't a worry per se, just interesting how and why some phenotypes happen.
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Well said, people are sticking a premium price on the "Silver Duns" as buckskins are more expensive to buy, so that is what was annoying me mostly! On a colour genetics fb page, a person was concerned about the colour of their foal. They'd bred to a "Silver Dun" stallion, and therefore expected the chance of a dilute, the foal was born palomino and is now greying out, the owner definitely didn't want a grey (specifically due to the chance of melanoma).
 
Hoof_Prints said:
The amount of times people call buckskins duns, it becomes more effort than it's worth to explain it ! Because they often still disagree after anyway :p so I've found
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I've taken to doing it deliberately now (calling buckskins, dun) - just because I find the reactions amusing! I'm a bit sad like that. Plus for me they have always been dun (even though I appreciate the generically aren't), I link buckskin with americanisms, and I generally dislike those!
 
Interesting thread. those who have a passport that documents for example a bay mare, who in later years turns grey, can the passport be updated to reflect the new colour? Or is the mare always described as bay?
 
ester said:
The main reason is for health, quite a lot of colours/patterns are associated with health problems, so it helps both owner and breeders to know what any associated risks might be.
So grey (and on double dilutes) - melanoma
LPLP congenital night blindness
LWO - foals with not functioning gut
Splash white- deafness.

I also don't think it is ok to make your horse sound like it is 'rare' to sell it for more money, telling the buyer they are going to stand out on a roan TB for ROR showing when actually it is just a bay 3yo going grey seems pretty unethical to me!

And well, some of us just like things to be factual, it isn't a worry per se, just interesting how and why some phenotypes happen.
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So, to clarify, it's mostly to rule out health problems (although rare over the whole horse population, I do understand) and beyond that, it's personal interest.
Fair enough! :)
 
In all fairness most people don't have a clue about the genetics of it. If the horse looks like something, they will call it that something, even if it isn't possible from that sire/dam combination. :/
And actually I do think knowing your horse's true colour is quite important because of health implications - something simple like a grey being marketed as a roan when greys are prone to melanomas.... or to avoid having a "skewbald" which is actually LWO then breeding it to another LWO and having a foal born without the lower half of its intestine or something (is that even what happens? Animal genetics just says "intestinal abnormalities" but I swear I read somewhere... :confused: ) .

Though as the imbecile who bought horse with CSNB without knowing I should probably just shut up now...
 
Well I have two grey duns who are just that - ponies which carry both the grey and dun alleles. They have dorsal stripes and primitive markings, and even when they fully grey out so that those are invisible (which, with F, isn't far off!), they will still, genetically, be dun. Doesn't make them rare or interesting though - they're highlands - virtually all of them carry the dun gene!
 
rule out and not generate,

LWO is a colon issue, they never pass droppings, start colicing and die in a few days. Obviously it is best if they can either be identified for what they are as soon as possible (other white types of foal do exist), or not bred at all.

To some extent we are 'lucky' over here as we don't have many LWO carrier horses, or splash white, and realistically not as much LP as say the states.
 
JFTD said:
Well I have two grey duns who are just that - ponies which carry both the grey and dun alleles. They have dorsal stripes and primitive markings, and even when they fully grey out so that those are invisible (which, with F, isn't far off!), they will still, genetically, be dun. Doesn't make them rare or interesting though - they're highlands - virtually all of them carry the dun gene!
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Yes , and very pretty I might add. They have the word "grey" in there, and it's correct! I think "silver" implies some shimmery magic version of the creamy buckskin coat that won't fade; it's usually Connies advertised as such.
 
Hoof_Prints said:
Yes , and very pretty I might add. They have the word "grey" in there, and it's correct! I think "silver" implies some shimmery magic version of the creamy buckskin coat that won't fade; it's usually Connies advertised as such.
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I do, in principle, agree with you, btw. So many misdescribed "duns" out there. I may have lost my... er... marbles... at the BHS textbooks which describe duns as "yellowish in colour and possibly in possession of a dorsal stripe" (I paraphrase slightly but this is the essence). Nope. Just no.


Also, thanks, but "pretty filthy" would be a better description right now ;)
 
Mine is sadly going whiter, annoying as I loved his black mane but ah well. He keeps growing more spots though everywhere although his neck and shoulders are particularly spotty and his face has his 'freckles' as I call them.

He looks like a dun when filthy, maybe the grey dun people just need to give their horses a bath? :D
 
I find this happens with some dog and cat owners too. People tell me that their pugahuahua is seal point cappachino....he's a cross breed love, and he's brown.
 
Leo Walker said:
Im always stunned at how many people just dont know how grey works. They look at me like I'm speaking in tongues when I explain their pretty dapple grey will eventually go white!
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Haha! People get surprisingly irritated by this don't they!
We had a grey and I loved him getting whiter. I've always quite liked pure white greys
 
Sparemare said:
Interesting thread. those who have a passport that documents for example a bay mare, who in later years turns grey, can the passport be updated to reflect the new colour? Or is the mare always described as bay?
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Well that's the thing I guess - passport colours are frequently inaccurate and/or non complete. I think you would probably have to get a vet out to do a new set of passport paperwork with the correct colour on it, but then where do you stop in terms of writing the description? Because a correct description of the horse you describe would he bay grey, as she is still genetically bay despite a white coat.

One of mine is described in her passport as 'bay roan', but she is genetically neither bay nor roan. But I have zero interest in correcting the passport tbh....and when the breeder who passported her couldn't even be bothered to stop the vet writing 'roan' when they knew she wasn't....
 
Theres a bay roan TB on the fb auction site.. it is even registered as bay, it might have a slightly funny coloured bum?
 
Most people don’t give a toss what the genetics of thier horses colour is, if it looks dun they will call it dun.

Some people are far too AR about colour genetics when the rest of us don’t really give a damn and are laughing at the colour police, often by deliberately misnaming a colour just to wind them up.

Most people are not going to breed and who cares if that gorgeous gelding is a chocolate dun, a sooty buckskin or a brown!
People will pay for pretty coloured horses whether you give them pretty names or not
 
Ok - so can I get away with now calling Old Cob 'roan' as he has many flecks of white through his coat now? In reality he is just a very old chestnut pony!

Is Young Cob coloured? He is chestnut with a (nearly) flaxen mane and tail and he does have a lovely patch of white under his girth which is not recorded on his passport ........
 
CF roan is tricky in nomenculture because there is Roan (Rn the gene) and roaning - which can be caused by a few other genes like sabino/rabicano/LP (appy roaning) etc. And then of course there is old age roaning/greying.

Re the coloured that actually usually depends on registry/showing society. He will certainly have a gene causing the white, but they aren't all identified yet.
 
conniegirl said:
Most people don’t give a toss what the genetics of thier horses colour is, if it looks dun they will call it dun.

Some people are far too AR about colour genetics when the rest of us don’t really give a damn and are laughing at the colour police, often by deliberately misnaming a colour just to wind them up.

Most people are not going to breed and who cares if that gorgeous gelding is a chocolate dun, a sooty buckskin or a brown!
People will pay for pretty coloured horses whether you give them pretty names or not
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Well yes, and sellers wouldn't describe horses as something they're not if their weren't buyers around who are stupid enough to pay extra money for it
 
My grey TB is registered as rose grey/roan. Bloomin Americans!

My darty is also registered as rose bay.

Colours do fascinate me when they are not obvious. The Wee Coloured Job is skewbald. His father is a dun coloured skewbald, his dam dun. Or whatever version of dun/buckskin etc that you want to call it. But he is a proper chestnut and white. What he can produce in future I don't know so I may get him gene tested or I may just like the surprise!
 
mine is most definitely grey dun!

mi1jQIa.jpg
 
conniegirl said:
People will pay for pretty coloured horses whether you give them pretty names or not
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Well, not necessarily, if the horse is in fact going to end up white and that is something they want to avoid, then they should know the outcome. It can only be a good thing to have the facts out there, rather than just carry on being misinformed or ignorant to them ;) No problem with people who don't give a toss about it, some might want to if they knew a bit more :D
 
ester said:
CF roan is tricky in nomenculture because there is Roan (Rn the gene) and roaning - which can be caused by a few other genes like sabino/rabicano/LP (appy roaning) etc. And then of course there is old age roaning/greying.

Re the coloured that actually usually depends on registry/showing society. He will certainly have a gene causing the white, but they aren't all identified yet.
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I was being rather tongue in cheek! It is interesting though - Young Cob was out of a bay mare and by a cream and yellow stallion of indeterminate breeding (I bought Young Cob as a 3 year old - I didn't breed him!). The stallion seems to produce mostly chestnut offspring from the photos I've seen.
Young cob's dam was out of a bay mare and by a chestnut stallion.
His white patch is only about 10cm across so not really visible, he also has some white hairs scattered through his coat, paler mane, tail and feathers and white hooves. He is 25% Irish Draught but the rest is an interesting and unknown mix! He doesn't fit easily into any category for showing but is coming on leaps and bounds with his flatwork.
 
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