Simon Cowell thinks hunting should stay banned!

[Mike007]

I agree with Mr Cowell. We British led the way in banning the slave trade and in banning slavery in the Empire, we led the way in banning bear baiting and cock fighting, and we led the way in banning hunting and hare coursing. We must continue to make progress and not let our civilisation take a backward step. For those who agree with me regarding hare coursing in particular, go to -

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoToHareCoursing/

It always makes me laugh when someone trots out the Bear bating,cock fighting, argument, oblivious to the fact that they were not banned for any animal welfare reason,but to control gambling amongst the working classes.Mind you ,when you come to think of it the fox hunting ban had precious little to do with animal welfare. I think I will give your anti hare coursing a miss ,too. Not because I support it, but because ,having listend to the likes of john Prescott and other "socialists"it seems to me that it is all about inventing a class struggle where none exists ,rather than any concern for animals.

 

[Simsar]

Well said!!

 

[cptrayes]

winterhorses, I wouldn't dream of asking someone I drag hunt alongside why he hunts as whip to foxhunts. That is entirely HIS choice and none of my business. He's a really nice man. I draghunt alongside a number of other really nice people who are in the field of local fox hunts on other days too. I don't see what point you are trying to make, to be honest, since I have made it clear that my choice is my choice and I don't make choices for anyone else.

But since you point out that they choose to drag hunt on the busiest day, a Saturday, instead of fox hunting that day, the antis reading this will have even more trouble understanding why they can't drag hunt the other days as well.

If pro-hunters are going to win this battle with the government, then they are going to have to get cleverer with understanding the motivation and psychology of the people they are up against.

 

[Simsar]

Sue Ellen your generalisation is perfectly sensible and almost certainly true. The counter to it is to find a celebrity will equal impact who will talk for you every time a Simon Cowell talks against you.

Unfortunately Otis Reading won't do - it was his Dad I was in love with at 15 !

Well I know that they don't speak up on it but we have Jodie Kidd, Jim davidson and a few others that I can't think of right now come to some of our meets, I know that they are not quite in Simon Cowells leage and don't tend to speak about it but there are some celebs that do support hunting.

There are quite a few well known celebs that support blood sports Eva Longoria, Kevin Costner, Guy Ritchie and Tiger woods to name a few.

 

[cptrayes]

You obviously need someone who couldn't give a damn about losing a few record sales or cinema tickets from fervent antis. Madonna would be great, wouldn't she? Does she hunt??

Plllllleeeeeasssse not Jordan!!!! :shocked: :grin:

 

[Simsar]

Unfortunately Madonna felt a bit queezy(sp) after shooting her first pheasant so I don't think she would be the one!!

Jordan is a bit z list compared to SC so i think not.

 

[SueEllen]

Nature is cruel for a reason, the weak and sick have to die for any species to survive.

Hounds killing a fox is a lot more natural than other methods.

In my very secure opinion.

 

[SueEllen]

There are quite a few well known celebs that support blood sports Eva Longoria, Kevin Costner, Guy Ritchie and Tiger woods to name a few.

Oh interesting knew about Guy Ritchie but not the rest.

Madge would be great wouldnt she.

 

[DunRoamin]

sorry but you will find that mr hitler in germany was the first to ban fox hunting my friend not the british so look through your history a bit better before making comment 's my friend...

The fact you called that dicusting excuse for a human being 'mr' goes to show what a sad individual you are and i'm sure as hell not your friend!!!!! your discusting.

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

Mr is the english word for 'Herr'

 

[anne83]

Firstly foxes have never been classified as vermin and I challenge anyone to show me where that is act by any legal and respectable body able to classify

Secondly foxes are in decline. In the 17th century they were hunted almost to extinction and the hunts imported foxes for france,,,,look up the history anywhere……… The hunts breed the foxes to hunt.

So you see this vermin pest case is really rubbish. The Countryside alliance started life as the “British Field Sports Association”…………..checkout the history…they are now and have always been about hunting.

The Burns report said it was inhumane and the European court has said yesterday

"The bans had been designed to eliminate the hunting and killing of animals for sport in a manner causing suffering and being morally objectionable,"

You can drag hunt but not savage a fox with a dog. Hoodies do it in towns and the pinks do it in the country. Dogs trained to kill have attached and killed children. This is not acceptable.

The wolves argument is just ludicrous. We used to get eaten by saber tooth tigers so does that mean a serial killer with a sharp knife should be allowed. We used to behead people do we want that back too.

There is no pest any increase in foxes so the only reason to kill them with dogs is a love of blood. Look up the facts before you write hearsay.

Thank G-d for Simon Cowell and people like him. Anything he can do to show the truth is fantastic.

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

What evidence do you have that hunting is responsible for any long term decline in fox numbers? Overall numbers are limited by habitat.

approx 400,000 foxes die each year - 20,000 through hunting.

The wolf argument is not ridiculous at all Loss of predators mean that numbers get controlled by other means. Deer are another classic case. are you suggesting we should not manage the deer population?

Wolves would tend to take out old and sick deer maintaining population health.

and no I don't propose using wildlife management techniques on the human population although the current ecological crisis is definitely partly a result of one species' untramelled growth.

The Hunting Act recognises the need for the use of dogs in pest control. We don't have a law that allows people to go out and gun down nuisance people so I think arguing from human to animal is perhaps the ridiculous argument.

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

Can you please quote where the Burns report said hunting was 'inhumane'?

 

[Daisychain]

I agree with alot of what your saying here. I'm not anti everyone has a free choice....

But the old pest control thing is such a load of crap, its just easy to justify....

I wish they would honestly hold up there hands and say 'I love chasing foxes, for the thrill it gives me'...

As i stated earlier, if the pest control really were the issue, then why take healthy foxes and transport them to another hunt to pursue????

Im sure many old and sick foxes are got rid of, but surely its the nice healthy ones which give a good chase!

Don't get me wrong i could easily go hunting and love it (for the ride) which i believe most people want that, but you have to train your brain to thinking its about pest control, thats all.

There is some SERIOUS cruelty gone on within hunting, in my mind its not acceptable. (First hand information).

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

I don't hold my hands up and say that because I don't go fox hunting.

How many hunts transport foxes in this manner? v v few i suspect.

That being said and like I said before our local beagles have restocked the area with Hares over the years and also do a fair amount of conservation work to encourage hare habitat.

Many coverts especially in arable areas are there because of hunting.

A huge area of the country is actively managed for field sports.

personally i think that is a good thing for the hares. The staghounds also do a lot of positive deer management.

It's not hunting which threatens deer,fox and hare populations it is habitat loss and bad management.

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

"Im sure many old and sick foxes are got rid of, but surely its the nice healthy ones which give a good chase!"

I am sure they do and also are much more likely to escape which is why hunting tends to select weak animals to be culled and is the only form of wildlife management that does.

 

[SueEllen]

Anne83 and Daisy Chain. I'm just not with you on this.

Any fox would be far more apt at evading hounds than evading being shot or any other method *. Its what they are designed to do its instinct. Just as its instinct for the hound to chase and kill. My two little Heinz 57 terriers, who are house dogs and pets have the same instinct its natural.

*Just to clarify its more natural for a hound to kill a fox than for a human to shoot a fox.

I think if you asked farmers that have stock killed by foxes they would classify them as vermin.

Look everyones obviously entitled to an opinion I just hope that its an informed opinion, not that based of a false reality of the countryside.

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

I agree with you Sue.

To me even with all our technology dogs kill foxes in a far better way than people with guns. There are all sorts of reasons for this.

I'm not pro all hunting nor everything that hunts do but that isn't the point.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

i have never come across in my 58 years foxes being ferried from one hunt to another. i've hunted with packs all over the country in my lifetime, from Derbyshire to Leicestershire, from Gloucestershire to Wiltshire, from Somerset down to Devon and even the Fourburrow in Cornwall. this has never been done. what does still go on is the trapping of town foxes being loaded into vans and dumped in the countryside, mostly by the RSPCA. if ever ther was a cruel act then this is it, as the country is totally alien to urban foxes.this is an ignorant thing to do but it still goes on- then they cant hunt for themselves, end up mangy, thin and weak, there's nothing nicer than to see a good, deep coloured,rounded healthy mountain fox!

 

[rosie fronfelen]

i go by the facts, not hearsay, no hound has ever killed a child to my knowledge, in fact they are delightful creatures with wonderful temperaments. also, foxes are certainly NOT in decline i can assure you!!

 

[HeWasGeeBee]

The foxes in decline argument is a little silly. She said they were almost extinct in the 17th century -= well they aren't now so surely numbers have gone up? and isn't that round abut when hunting started?

 

[rosie fronfelen]

mant hunts can be traced back 400 years-why we need this history lesson i don't know, it's not at all relevant now!!

 

[NeedNewHorse]

Good on Simon Cowell. At last someone with some public interest is finally doing something for animals!

We don't like hunting becasue it is cruel. Period. It's not a class thing, it's not because we don't understand the countryside and it's not because of any other odd reason. It's because we deem it to be cruel! That is it.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

you are entitled to your opinions of course( i doubt SC has any clue about hunting, doubt he even knows how to put wellies on!) i could be wrong of course- BUT, if charlie fox gets our chickens, geese,(foxes hunt in the day as well as night)or he has our lambs in spring he is deado!!! end of-

 

[cptrayes]

OK here I go again - a translation of pro-hunting statements into what the antis will hear and their response -

Statement
land is well managed and deer and hare are conserved by people maintaining the countryside for hunting fox

Anti answer (Please remember I am not one, just a messenger don't shoot me!)
Conservation does not require hunting of foxes, it is done perfectly well without it by people like the National Trust. Huge amounts of conservation work has been done with EU grant money for ESAs and SSSIs too, and the current Single Payment Scheme is firmly linked to land management.


Statement
hunting is the most humane way of killing foxes

Anti answer
Actually lamping is just as good, but let's find an even better one. Trap them alive and shoot them at point blank range. Feed them or dart them with contraceptives.


Statement
It is natural for hounds to kill foxes

Anti answer
It is natural for dogs to kill each other, but we only allow that to happen by accident and even then the owner of a killer dog can be prosecuted for failing to control his dog and for criminal damage of the other dog. There are lots of natural things that are against the law for people to deliberately organise.

And back on a personal level, I do have a lot of sympathy with the statement made above " I'm not anti everyone has a free choice....But ...... I wish they would honestly hold up their hands and say 'I love chasing foxes, for the thrill it gives me', because I completely understand that thrill, and (not for want of trying) I can't get my head around any other justification for it.

 

[Xlthlx]

I don't fox hunt so how could I say that!

 

[SueEllen]

I enjoy being out in the countryside on my beautiful horse and the work that goes into maintaining her, I enjoy the social side of it and the adrenaline buzz that comes from covering ground. I rarely see the business end of things but I appreciate the abilities of the Huntsman. I also appreciate the fact that they do a job that in my opinion needs to be done.

Thats that for me.

 

[cptrayes]

Sorry, the quote doesn't refer to antis, "they" refers to pro-hunters, I cut and pasted it badly!

Great statement SueEllen. I hope we'd shake hands if we met.

 

[SueEllen]

I hope we'd shake hands if we met.

I am sure we would.

 

[DunRoamin]

Mr is the english word for 'Herr'

I dont give a toss!! that dicusting thing does not deserve the respect of being called Mr,'herr', or anything else for that matter