Slightly terrifying instructors for kids...good or bad?!

[Jellymoon]

When I was a kid back in the 80s learning to ride, my goodness the instructors were strict! We had one FBHS in pc who was absolutely terrifying and quite negative, but she obviously really knew her stuff. I think she may have been a bit too off-putting though....she wouldn’t get away with it these days.

Anyway, my daughter has decided she wants to improve her flatwork so I’ve started to take her to lessons with a new instructor who is very highly regarded as a trainer for kids, she really really knows her stuff and her results are amazing. She’s quite old school though! She’s very strict, doesn’t mince her words, and I cringe a little bit, I worry about my daughter‘s self-confidence.

But in the few lessons she’s had with her, wow, her riding has improved massively, no more bimbling about going nowhere, never knew our old pony club pony of unrecorded breeding could do a medium trot!!! Daughter seems happy, very much in awe of the amazing instructor, got a tour of all her fancy dressage horses last time. Now wants to go to the Olympics, hahaha!

So I guess you are wondering what the problem is, right? Well, she’s just quite critical, and that’s my baby she’s talking about, she’s only 9!!! She does say some positive things, like she could actually be good at this, but she says her hands and legs are wobbling about all over the place, she has masses of work to do to be any good, etc etc. It’s reminding me of my old instructors, and I’m a bit worried about daughter‘s self-confidence.

Or should I just buck up and let her get on with it, this could be the making of her.

I’m in two minds as we are all so concerned with kids mental health these days aren’t we. To be fair, she does praise her when she gets it right, But then in the next breath, she bellowing at her for letting pony bend the wrong way round a corner! And I’m hiding behind my hands!

To be fair, it’s the same watching their hockey matches at school, lots of shouting and telling off if they do things wrong, so perhaps I’m being too soft and she’s used to all of this from school anyway.

I don’t know, what do you guys reckon?? Daughter likes it and wants to carry on, but could that be Stockholms syndrome, hahaha!

 

[milliepops]

I don't have children so not an expert... but I was one and I had a dragon of an instructor... she set me up at a young age to do things properly, have respect for the horse and to continue to try to improve every time I sat on a horse. Riding was the only thing I would accept instruction on when I was a kid, I hated music and ballet lessons etc because I felt like a failure for not being able to do it, but I sucked up being barked at by a proper Old Skool riding teacher gladly.

My parents had chosen her to make sure I knew what I was doing (as they didn't) and also to make sure it wasn't a flash in the pan thing, I really had to prove I wanted to ride because it wasn't really something they could afford!

if your daughter is happy then I think that tells you all you need to know. it sounds like it's paying off

 

[Reacher]

I think it depends on whether instructor is strict but fair or strict and discouraging.
As a child at RS I had an instructor who was strict but positive. (Didn’t smother me with praise but let parents know I tried hard).
When I got a green pony (and I was still very green) and went to PC I had an instructor who just slagged us off for being able to only canter on one lead. I hated it and refused to go back.
Agree with MP, if child seems happy then it sounds like it is working

 

[Annagain]

If she has a reputation for being good with kids, that says a lot. I don't have kids so might have a different take on it but generally (please note the generally) I find that parents are way more protective of children these days than when I was young. The fact that other parents haven't got protective over their kids in relation to this instructor being negative suggests her methods work. Your daughter is happy so I wouldn't worry too much at the moment - maybe just keep a close eye for signs that she's less keen or, if you can afford it / fit them in, one lesson a month with a really positive but perhaps less effective instructor could boost her self esteem enough to know the other lessons are working? One super-positive instructor who will gush about how much progress she's made might balance this one quite nicely?

 

[MrsCentaur]

You said it yourself - your daughter likes her and wants to carry on. This is a wonderful opportunity for your child to develop resilience, and I would suggest that you embrace it. For what it's worth, she sounds like exactly the sort of academic tutor that I seek out for my children and they're quite a bit younger than yours; I don't want them to become complacent, I want them to be excellent and I think it does them good to know that they're not there yet (but could be one day!).

 

[ihatework]

I think you just need to monitor your child’s response to the instruction. If the child’s demeanour is positive and she is improving then it’s possible you are just being a protective parent ?

I do think it’s good for children to be able to hear and react to a certain level of criticism to help them later in adult life. Obviously nothing to the extreme mind.

 

[Jellymoon]

If she has a reputation for being good with kids, that says a lot. I don't have kids so might have a different take on it but generally (please note the generally) I find that parents are way more protective of children these days than when I was young. The fact that other parents haven't got protective over their kids in relation to this instructor being negative suggests her methods work. Your daughter is happy so I wouldn't worry too much at the moment - maybe just keep a close eye for signs that she's less keen or, if you can afford it / fit them in, one lesson a month with a really positive but perhaps less effective instructor could boost her self esteem enough to know the other lessons are working? One super-positive instructor who will gush about how much progress she's made might balance this one quite nicely?

Now that is a good idea! We do have one instructor who is full of gushy praise, and correct, but not so demanding or effective! She would do that job.
But, interestingly, daughter is much more inspired by the new one...I’ll just have to keep an eye on self-esteem.

 

[smolmaus]

There's a fine line between strict and demoralising and really your daughter is the only one who knows where that line is for her. If she's happy then let her continue but maybe have a conversation so that she knows if she's ever NOT happy she can tell you and you won't blame her.

I got on very well with my old instructor as a child who sounds similar. I'd have tied myself in knots if she asked me to. Not being treated any differently than the adults made me feel like she took me seriously which does wonders for the self esteem.

Now I'm an adult I am finding I prefer someone who is a bit more forthcoming with the "well done" that isn't always 100% deserved lol

 

[windand rain]

Encouraging her by being blunt and straight forward suits some kids. Being deliberately nasty is not it is discouraging I have taught many kids it is frustration that upsets them more so being able to judge what is causing the problem and have ingenious ideas to get round them is a great instructor

 

[Regandal]

As others have said, if she’s strict but fair then it’s good. I can still hear my instructors voice 40 odd years later when doing stuff around the horse. She was a battleaxe, but drummed it into us that The Horse Always Comes First.

 

[Trouper]

I chose not to have kids so I speak from a certain perspective of ignorance here. But then they do say the observer sees more of the game?? I do see a lot of molly coddling these days and children being allowed to duck out of anything which might "upset" them. But when I look at the kids themselves I see little people who seem to love a challenge and really throw themselves into it.
There is a skill to instructing and it doesn't come naturally to some people. It is a fine balance to find the way a person learns best and we are not all the same and the good instructors are the ones who can see that.

As others have said I would simply monitor your child - if the fun and enjoyment and learning are still there then I would stop worrying. She will have stories to tell her own children of how she learned to ride!!!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

When mine was 9 I knew as much about equines as a 4" paintbrush on a postage stamp (according to her) so arranged some lessons with an old friend who was THE most effective but scarey instructor ever, BHSI, A test with honours, had completed Badminton, didn't suffer fools etc....
Her riding (daughter) was v neat but not always effective. My gosh the change in her after 2 lessons was amazing, she hero worshipped old friend and would try her best every time.
Monitor but be there x

 

[Red-1]

The instructor sounds great. If her legs are wobbling around all over, if she knows, she can do something about it. If it were said as a throwaway put down with no way to improve, then that would be demoralising, but that doesn't sound like what is happening here.

I think real time praise/correction is easy to stomach too. Feedback in with precise timing is precious. It doesn't last long and she is not in a learned helpless state because the instructor is good enough to make improvements, that she can be then fed back on.

It sounds like a huge confidence boost TBH, "This is wrong, now you have put it right, well done!" over and over.

I would say it will increase her resilience and self confidence.

Some people have skills and timing to be rough outward, but it be a confidence boost.

If it stops working, stop going, but if she is happy and improving, don't break what is working.

 

[Jellymoon]

Your comments are all so helpful, thank you.
Following on from reading them, I just had a very interesting chat with daughter, I asked her if she’s enjoying her lessons etc, she said definitely, yes. I said what is it you like about them? She said, she makes me think I can be better than I thought I could be. Wow. That’s pretty positive I reckon.
So I think I just need to sit back and let this lady do her stuff. Daughter is not a wet lettuce, if she’s not happy, she will tell me.
Hard to get the balance right as a parent, couldn’t bear to be over pushy, but also want to see them achieve. Success is also good for the self-esteem isn’t it!

 

[milliepops]

that's brilliant feedback. it sounds like you've hit the jackpot there.

 

[Jellymoon]

When mine was 9 I knew as much about equines as a 4" paintbrush on a postage stamp (according to her) so arranged some lessons with an old friend who was THE most effective but scarey instructor ever, BHSI, A test with honours, had completed Badminton, didn't suffer fools etc....
Her riding (daughter) was v neat but not always effective. My gosh the change in her after 2 lessons was amazing, she hero worshipped old friend and would try her best every time.
Monitor but be there x

This is so similar!! There’s definitely a fair bit of hero worshipping going on! There’ll be no slacking with this lady, but I’ve never seen her ride so well, and I can now see the potential coming out too. She always sat nicely, but didn’t do very much and then got upset if pony didn’t comply.

 

[TheMule]

If they don’t learn resilience at this age they struggle more later in life. This seems like a pretty fun way of becoming a bit more resilient!

 

[smolmaus]

She said, she makes me think I can be better than I thought I could be. Wow. That’s pretty positive I reckon.

Grinch-like, my heart grows 3 sizes. ❤

 

[Nicnac]

She sounds like a great instructor and good to hear your daughter is recognising her progress and the positive criticism. Riders need to be massively resilient as if it's not the instructor telling us we can do better, it's the horse and that's when the sticks and stones saying comes into it! Far better to be told in words by an instructor than dumped on your backside by a horse

 

[ponynutz]

My instructor is so lovely, but as she always says she 'doesn't speak the language of whinge'. And the jumps go down until you're 100% confident haha!

 

[oldie48]

Sounds like you have got a great trainer. she might not work for every child but then again, not every child wants to make the effort to improve and clearly your daughter does.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't think you get actual self-esteem from being told that you're brilliant all the time anyway. That's not how it works. You get self-esteem from working hard and improving at difficult things and the honest feedback of a good instructor is part of that process. If her legs are wobbling she needs to be told that. If it's delivered as fact (rather than a value judgement) with help to improve it then it's not going to debt her confidence. When the instructor finally says "your legs are lovely and still now" .. That's going to be the self-esteem maker moment.

Resilience and ability to accept criticism without it hurting you to the core is an important skill for kids to learn. And we don't teach them it very well.

 

[Caol Ila]

I had a couple terrifying instructors as a kid. It was very much a double-edged sword. They drilled into us a keen sense of best practice and safety and awareness when working around horses. To this day, whenever I'm doing something blatantly unsafe like sticking half my body underneath my horse to remove a boot from the opposite leg, I think, "Lois would kill me." BUT I don't think it did my riding any favours. When riding, I lived in fear of them going all Full Metal Jacket on my ass for the slightest mistake, and we know now that neither humans nor horses learn very well when highly stressed. I picked up bad habits that I've never been able to get rid of.

One incident that always stuck in my mind was when the instructor was trying to teach us turn on the forehand. I was being very muddled with my aids, so the school horse wasn't doing it. Instead of helping me not use muddley aids, the instructor lost her shit, grabbed the horse by the bit ring, and whipped his butt around in a circle. With me on him. I was terrified. Horse was terrified. Astoundingly, I stuck with this instructor for another two years, finally switching to the barn's dressage instructor when I got my own horse. She was strict but a lot more humane in her approach.

OP, your daughter's instructor sounds a lot better than mine!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It depends on the kid. I had an instructor who tore me to shreds every single lesson. And I mean absolutely tore me to shreds but I am a stubborn little madam and I was determined to prove her wrong and that I could do what she was asking amd do it better than she expected. I don't think I once got actual praise, more of a - that wasn't quite as terrible as I was expecting - kind of comment.

My sister on the other hand got the praise heaped on her by the same instructor for just managing to walk round the school.

She figured out our personalities and taught us how she needed to. If she had tore into my sister she would have got off the pony in a flood of tears and never went back.

If your daughter is happy then I'd say leave them be. She sounds like she is learning far more now than she ever has.

 

[Nudibranch]

If your daughter is happy then go by that measure as others have said. Sounds like she is and that she's feeling encouraged which is great.
As a parent and a teacher, I can see both sides but the old "I was b#llocked to high heaven and it didn't do me any harm" school of thought doesn't hold much truck with me. It's often quoted by people who don't have children. Times have changed. Mostly for the better.

I was once absolutely screamed and shouted at by an instructor in front of a group because I couldn't put the stirrup leathers up a hole. They were old and stiff and I just couldn't manipulate them (later found out I have hypermobility and my hands aren't particularly strong). It was awful but I never mentioned it to anyone, I was too ashamed. When my mum found out, from someone else who saw it, she moved me to a new riding school - which was much better! This was in the 80s, and my mum was no mollycoddler.

 

[scats]

I sometimes think kids cope better with a bit of tough teaching than adults do as they tend to be able to process it as simply to do with the task in hand, whereas adults tend to start over-thinking (they dislike me as a person, they think I’m useless etc)

I’d definitely be guided by your daughters reaction to it. She sounds like a pretty tough cookie who can appreciate what the instructor is trying to achieve. Some kids might shrivel up at that, but others will flourish.

 

[BBP]

For me it always depends on how the instructor is with the horse. If they bully the rider I can cope but if they bully the horse it teaches the rider nothing. I remember being traumatised as a child by a very dominant instructor who would get frustrated if I didn’t smack the pony when she told me to, and would come over, grab the reins, grab the whip and give the pony a hiding. Pony and I were both terrified and not one adult ever spoke up against her. The only thing it taught me is I don’t ever want to treat an animal that way. The instructor should set the example for how a horse should be treated, everything else after that just depends on the child’s personality.

 

[ITPersonnage]

When I "liked" the post BBP I didn't "like" the way the instructor behaved, but your response. Bonkers black one is reaping the benefits of that lesson

 

[Jellymoon]

I’m really enjoying reading everyone’s take on this, so interesting. Having had some terrible instructors as a kid who were both cruel to us kids and our ponies, I’m very keen for this not to happen to my girl and her pony. We bring our own baggage to the parenting process, don’t we. I also have a tendency to overthink and focus on the negative, which is really squashing on every level. When I think of all the positive things she’s said to DD, I would say it’s 50/50. And I’m not paying for her to be told she’s amazing in every way! That’s not in any way healthy and teaches her nothing. Kids are very literal and if she’s constantly told she’s a great rider she won’t realise she has anything to work on.

I think my kids do have a tendency to lack resilience and give up if things get too hard, which is something I’m keen to try to do something about. Im
probability way too soft with them, and over protective.

I think this is a really good opportunity to teach my daughter how to handle constructive criticism and to learn that hard work leads to success, and doing well in competition is a great feeling. It took me until adulthood to get that feeling with horses.

My parents weren’t horsey so they wouldn’t have known if my instructors were good or not.

I admire this lady and how she treats her horses, I think my daughter has the most amazing opportunity here. Yes, some of the things she says to her make me cringe, but my daughter doesn’t seem to mind, and there are so many positive things she says too. I’m also watching every lesson so I can give a bit of a confidence pep talk on the way home if I feel she needs it.
I think once she gets out competing and we hopefully get some results, then I shall let go a little bit!!
I also asked my daughter this morning how far she wants to go with her riding? Because there’s a part of me that thinks it’s all getting a bit serious and surely she should be riding bareback, playing cowboys and Indians and going on picnic rides??. However, we do all those things aswell, and she does enjoy all that, but she also wants to learn to ride properly. She said, as far as I can possibly go! And she wouldn’t have said that before, that’s come from her new instructor.

I think it’s actually me that needs to learn to take some criticism and stop focussing on the negative, and overthinking everything!

 

[SEL]

Haha! My friend is as soft as anything with her daughter (giving her the childhood she wanted but never had - I don't blame her) and cannot get over how much her daughter looks forward to lessons with her dragon of an instructor!

From the kids POV though when the praise comes it REALLY means something. She's voluntarily been out after school in awful weather practising before her next lesson. Its not fear - she really, really wants to do well. She's turned into a much better rider while still at primary school than most adults because of the effort she's putting in now. I caught the end of a lesson a while back and thought it fell into the 'firm but fair' category.

My parents used to go and sit in the car when I was on the end of the sergeant major types as a little kid. It just didn't bother them and obviously didn't bother me given as they are still waiting for me to grow out of the pony phase 40 odd years later