So National Trust have voted to ban trail hunting because …

[minesadouble]

I try my best not to get involved in posts like this, as I've said before neither side is going to change the mindset of the other.

However, what I do want to say is that on posts such as this the vast vast majority of posters are anti-hunt. But when someone posts that they are in the unenviable situation of making the decision to end the life of their horse the number of posts that advocate using the local hunt for this purpose is disproportionate. Hunts provide an excellent service in this respect and with the number of vets no longer holding a gun licence and the slow demise of the traditional knackerman you may miss your local hunt more than you realise were they to be disbanded.

 

[Tiddlypom]

However, what I do want to say is that on posts such as this the vast vast majority of posters are anti-hunt.

Not correct. It is true of just a minority.

Most of us are anti illegal hunting, which is quite different . Also we are definitely anti all rude and badly behaved hunts, of which there are far too many.

Quite a number of us posting from either side have a background of fox hunting before the ban, me included.

But hey, it's so much easier for pro hunt to dismiss any negative remarks as coming from antis who are ignorant of country ways, isnt it.

 

[paddy555]

Have you contacted the hunt secretary and asked for a meet card? That's what I did when I had problems and they sent me a card after that which at least allowed me to keep the horses in so that if (when!) they went through my field without my permission at least they weren't actually going through the horses.

why would anyone have to? up to the organisers of a large social event to publicise it.

 

[paddy555]

@Sandstone - I quote reports because they are informed and expert opinion, not purely my own view. That is intended to bring a sense of seriousness, objectivity and expertise to a discussion which I think is valuable. I understand that the law has been broken in relation to the Hunting Act; that is a police matter though I don't want hunting brought into disrepute personally. The killing of pets, upsetting of livestock and damage to property all do matter, of course they do. The way those are 'capitalised on' by an aggressive campaign belies their frequency though I have no problems at all condemning outright and without any reservation the loss of control of hounds where pets are injured or killed and stock harassed.



.

the killing of any pet by a pack of out of control dogs of any breed is devastating for that family. I can't find the section in your various reports which deal with hound trespass.

 

[ycbm]

However, what I do want to say is that on posts such as this the vast vast majority of posters are anti-hunt. But when someone posts that they are in the unenviable situation of making the decision to end the life of their horse the number of posts that advocate using the local hunt for this purpose is disproportionate. Hunts provide an excellent service in this respect and with the number of vets no longer holding a gun licence and the slow demise of the traditional knackerman you may miss your local hunt more than you realise were they to be disbanded.

There will always be a requirement to shoot farm animals. I doubt many people would be unable to have their horse shot if there wasn't a hunt.
.

 

[paddy555]

I try my best not to get involved in posts like this, as I've said before neither side is going to change the mindset of the other.

However, what I do want to say is that on posts such as this the vast vast majority of posters are anti-hunt. But when someone posts that they are in the unenviable situation of making the decision to end the life of their horse the number of posts that advocate using the local hunt for this purpose is disproportionate. Hunts provide an excellent service in this respect and with the number of vets no longer holding a gun licence and the slow demise of the traditional knackerman you may miss your local hunt more than you realise were they to be disbanded.

not me. I want my animals PTS by a vet by injection. Wouldn't miss them at all.

 

[ycbm]

Opinion politics and knee jerk reaction to events are not a sensible, adult way to debate or make policy.

The banning of fox hunting was not a knee jerk reaction to events. There is no anti hunting brigade, only an anti illegal hunting brigade. 17 years on from the ban, current reaction is hardly kneejerk.

There are many things in history, old and recent, which were ended because it became people's opinion that they were no longer acceptable to society at that time.

On your rats question, you are never going to understand the issue with that until you accept that the majority of people hunt for fun, and that as a whole, society has rejected the idea of making entertainment out of killing animals.
.

 

[ycbm]

I'm guessing that most fox hunters are very upper crust and entitled

In the UK, only the Masters and land owners, and far from all of them. People in the UK who hunt are varied.
.

 

[cauda equina]

I thought what precipitated the Hunting Ban was PETA giving the Labour Party a massive donation, and Tony Blair needing something to pacify the Labour MPs and party supporters who were angry about the Gulf War?
But however it came about it's here now, and peoples' culture or passion or enjoyment of watching hounds work cuts no ice if what they are doing is against the law

 

[ycbm]

I don't have the slightest doubt introducing the act was political.

I also believe, however, that it did reflect the views of the majority of people, and we do live in a democracy.
.

 

[cauda equina]

It certainly was political; I remember a lot of 'Thatcher closed our pits so we'll take away their hunting!' type stuff

 

[paddy555]

Have you contacted the hunt secretary and asked for a meet card? That's what I did when I had problems and they sent me a card after that which at least allowed me to keep the horses in so that if (when!) they went through my field without my permission at least they weren't actually going through the horses.

followed your suggestion and just been told there is no meet card.

 

[SO1]

Absolutely political as is every government decision.

However I think if a poll was run today to ask people if the ban should be repealed then the majority of people would say no, I think even on this forum.

I think the public nuisance element would push some people to go even further and ban trial hunting or penalise any hunt that trespasses on land where they are not welcome or at least pay damages to those who have been affected by trespassing or if they hounds have killed a pet due to being somewhere where they should not have been.

It certainly was political; I remember a lot of 'Thatcher closed our pits so we'll take away their hunting!' type stuff

 

[Sandstone1]

So Palo1, Please answer this, Why were the Warwickshire hunt hunting alongside the fosse way the other day? a very busy main road. Stopping traffic in both directions. Surely if a trail had been laid this would not happen? Is it possible to have a answer without reams of quotes from reports? Just a simple answer please. why if trail hunting are hunts going where they should not?

 

[ycbm]

Interesting news on another thread that Irish hunts, which still hunt fox and deer, can't get their public liability insurance renewed as no underwriter can be found who will take it on.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the ways in which hunts behave?

So far it's been blamed on Brexit because the previous underwriters were British, (which, even if it's true that UK underwriters can no longer underwite risk in Ireland, doesn't explain why no other EU underwriters will take it on) and the litigious nature of the Irish (are they really more litigious than Brits?)

It seems to me on the face of it much more likely that it's because of how often hunts do damage that they can be held liable for and the perceived risk of big payouts (eg hound causing fatal traffic accident).

It will be a real turnaround if the thing that finally kills hunting is the lack of commercial viability of public liability insurance.
.

 

[Clodagh]

I presume all the hunts in France have insurance.
Seeing as (like you say) in Ireland it’s legal that does seem harsh.

 

[palo1]

So Palo1, Please answer this, Why were the Warwickshire hunt hunting alongside the fosse way the other day? a very busy main road. Stopping traffic in both directions. Surely if a trail had been laid this would not happen? Is it possible to have a answer without reams of quotes from reports? Just a simple answer please. why if trail hunting are hunts going where they should not?

As I have no knowledge of the Warwickshire hunt nor their country I would suggest that you contact the Secretary to ask this question.

 

[palo1]

Interesting news on another thread that Irish hunts, which still hunt fox and deer, can't get their public liability insurance renewed as no underwriter can be found who will take it on.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the ways in which hunts behave?

So far it's been blamed on Brexit because the previous underwriters were British, (which, even if it's true that UK underwriters can no longer underwite risk in Ireland, doesn't explain why no other EU underwriters will take it on) and the litigious nature of the Irish (are they really more litigious than Brits?)

It seems to me on the face of it much more likely that it's because of how often hunts do damage that they can be held liable for and the perceived risk of big payouts (eg hound causing fatal traffic accident).

It will be a real turnaround if the thing that finally kills hunting is the lack of commercial viability of public liability insurance.
.

Well it is an interesting issue and could signal other changes which would affect many more people in other situations - for instance professional dog walkers and other dog related businesses. Obviously with hounds not being on a lead there is a specific risk there. There are a great many European countries where hunting is live and thriving and the co-operative bodies in Europe are already sharing their contacts etc for insurance.

 

[Rowreach]

Interesting news on another thread that Irish hunts, which still hunt fox and deer, can't get their public liability insurance renewed as no underwriter can be found who will take it on.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the ways in which hunts behave?

So far it's been blamed on Brexit because the previous underwriters were British, (which, even if it's true that UK underwriters can no longer underwite risk in Ireland, doesn't explain why no other EU underwriters will take it on) and the litigious nature of the Irish (are they really more litigious than Brits?)

It seems to me on the face of it much more likely that it's because of how often hunts do damage that they can be held liable for and the perceived risk of big payouts (eg hound causing fatal traffic accident).

It will be a real turnaround if the thing that finally kills hunting is the lack of commercial viability of public liability insurance.
.

I don’t know the ins and outs of it but because of Brexit the BHS (well their underwriters) withdrew all of their insurances from their Irish membership, and I imagine all hunts go to a particular underwriter so it’s probably the same sort of issue.

I don’t think the Irish are particularly litigious, but nobody wants to be in a position where they could lose everything.

 

[GoldenWillow]

followed your suggestion and just been told there is no meet card.

I think that is really bad of them and very unhelpful and showing no consideration to anyone that their hunting affects in an adverse manner. They don't help themselves do they!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think that is really bad of them and very unhelpful and showing no consideration to anyone that their hunting affects in an adverse manner. They don't help themselves do they!

Most hunts have long stopped handing out meet cards, not just Paddy555s. It's all very secret squirrel now. It certainly doesn't help harmonious relations with locals, especially those with animals, when hunts rock up without warning causing disruption.

Not handing out meet cards or prewarning residents that the hunt is coming causes great ill feeling.

 

[paddy555]

and showing no consideration to anyone that their hunting affects

they showed no consideration when their computer security was so poor all our details( landowners within their large area), phone no's etc were released on the internet to the general public along with all our views on hunting.

 

[Sandstone1]

As I have no knowledge of the Warwickshire hunt nor their country I would suggest that you contact the Secretary to ask this question.

So you have no answer for why a trail hunt would be hunting alongside a main road causing danger to traffic, riders and hounds not to mention the disruption to people trying to go about their lives. I just can not understand why a trail would be laid there...... Maybe the trail layer got lost or of course sabs could have made them do it.... Or maybe, just maybe they were hunting a fox.... Oh no silly me thats illegal is it not..... Could not possibly be happening. Or could it????????

 

[Tiddlypom]

they showed no consideration when their computer security was so poor all our details( landowners within their large area), phone no's etc were released on the internet to the general public along with all our views on hunting.

And did the hunt then, as is legally required, contact all the people whose contact details had been leaked along with personal remarks on them?

 

[Old school]

Interesting news on another thread that Irish hunts, which still hunt fox and deer, can't get their public liability insurance renewed as no underwriter can be found who will take it on.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the ways in which hunts behave?

So far it's been blamed on Brexit because the previous underwriters were British, (which, even if it's true that UK underwriters can no longer underwite risk in Ireland, doesn't explain why no other EU underwriters will take it on) and the litigious nature of the Irish (are they really more litigious than Brits?)

It seems to me on the face of it much more likely that it's because of how often hunts do damage that they can be held liable for and the perceived risk of big payouts (eg hound causing fatal traffic accident).

It will be a real turnaround if the thing that finally kills hunting is the lack of commercial viability of public liability insurance.
.

I am not aware of it being related to damage to land. To me that would be an inflammatory suggestion and with no back up.

It more to do with riders making claims as far as I am aware.

The farmer in Ireland is not in the Compo frame of mind. Of that I can be certain. We don't have the historic class division that the UK has or multitudes of tennant farmers.

The EU insurance model is totally different. It is one that may or may not be replicated as our judicial system is not like for like. I expect that this is currently under review.

 

[ycbm]

I am not aware of it being related to damage to land. To me that would be an inflammatory suggestion and with no back up.

Since damage to property and hounds on roads have been repeated complaints about hunting on this thread, I would suggest there is plenty of "back up" and if people find it inflammatory to mention it then they could perhaps lobby the bad hunts to stop the behaviours.

The compensation comment was made by someone Irish, AFAIK.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How could a rider (presuming that you mean a hunt follower) make a claim against a hunt?

Negligent mastering, maybe???

There is plenty of first hand evidence of hunts damaging livestock and property, though.

ETA From one of the recent hunting leaks exposės, a hunt was shown gone to its insurers to settle the claim from a motorist whose car was damaged by a hound which ran onto the main road. Don't think that the hound did too well, either .

A hunt caused RTA could result in a huge claim.

 

[palo1]

Most hunts have long stopped handing out meet cards, not just Paddy555s. It's all very secret squirrel now. It certainly doesn't help harmonious relations with locals, especially those with animals, when hunts rock up without warning causing disruption.

Not handing out meet cards or prewarning residents that the hunt is coming causes great ill feeling.

Well yes and it is frustrating and inconvenient. However it is something that the police have advised hunts to do/not to do (ie don't hand out meet cards).

 

[Rowreach]

So you have no answer for why a trail hunt would be hunting alongside a main road causing danger to traffic, riders and hounds not to mention the disruption to people trying to go about their lives. I just can not understand why a trail would be laid there...... Maybe the trail layer got lost or of course sabs could have made them do it.... Or maybe, just maybe they were hunting a fox.... Oh no silly me thats illegal is it not..... Could not possibly be happening. Or could it????????

I know I'm going to regret this, but ..... there hasn't been a single poster denying that illegal hunting is taking place, nor has anyone tried to defend it.

If you have evidence of illegal hunting, report it.

 

[Sandstone1]

I know I'm going to regret this, but ..... there hasn't been a single poster denying that illegal hunting is taking place, nor has anyone tried to defend it.

If you have evidence of illegal hunting, report it.

I have.