dozzie
Well-Known Member
Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
Why couldnt it go to the CPS?
Why couldnt it go to the CPS?
So were the posters who backed Jamie Gray "Trolls" ?
- Thread starter Janetterose
- Start date
- Status
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Judges summing up was supposed to have been posted here>>> http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/index.htm
But I cant seem to find it.
Now that said - I sat through the case and heard evidence from both sides and I personally dont feel this is a true picture of the case. Not by far. Sorry!!
Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Judges summing up was supposed to have been posted here>>> http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/index.htm
But I cant seem to find it.
Now that said - I sat through the case and heard evidence from both sides and I personally dont feel this is a true picture of the case. Not by far. Sorry!!
WoopsiiD
Well-Known Member
Why were there so many dead horses on the site?
dozzie
Well-Known Member
LOL! Had a look and I have no idea where to start! I will have a good mooch through tomorrow!
Are the SHG involved do you know? I looked on their site today but couldnt find an update.
Are the SHG involved do you know? I looked on their site today but couldnt find an update.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Patty.
I wonder why Bob Baskerville changed his mind. I guess we wont ever know.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you why Bob Baskerville changed his mind - The RSPCA got their claws into him. Just like they tried to do with the Knacker man and Mr Grays Farria. They came unstuck though - Big time. God only knows what they said to Bob Baskerville.
Read a bit of what the RSPCA are like SHG
Thanks Patty.
I wonder why Bob Baskerville changed his mind. I guess we wont ever know.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you why Bob Baskerville changed his mind - The RSPCA got their claws into him. Just like they tried to do with the Knacker man and Mr Grays Farria. They came unstuck though - Big time. God only knows what they said to Bob Baskerville.
Read a bit of what the RSPCA are like SHG
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like the whole Gray family has logged on now......I can only think that anyone who would stick up for the Grays are either them themselves or people who keep animals in the same condiions and see nothing wrong with it!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you are indeed wrong. I'm not a member of the Gray family.
And for the record - If I had horses I wouldnt think twice about keeping them in the same conditions that Mr Gray kept his animals in if I could afford to.
I have seen the farm and would be very happy to keep any animal there. No problem what so ever. - In the care of Mr Gray too.
Looks like the whole Gray family has logged on now......I can only think that anyone who would stick up for the Grays are either them themselves or people who keep animals in the same condiions and see nothing wrong with it!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you are indeed wrong. I'm not a member of the Gray family.
And for the record - If I had horses I wouldnt think twice about keeping them in the same conditions that Mr Gray kept his animals in if I could afford to.
I have seen the farm and would be very happy to keep any animal there. No problem what so ever. - In the care of Mr Gray too.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
I really do think MJ is talking shite.
IF she/he had evidence that could clear the Grays it would have been sensable to provide it at the trial,not hint at it on a forum
Whatever the intrest in the Grays MJ,spit out whatever you think you know or shut up about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The defence provided a moutain of evidence to the court which blew the prosections case apart but this was simply over looked. I'm awaiting some documents and when get them I will post them.
(QR)
I really do think MJ is talking shite.
IF she/he had evidence that could clear the Grays it would have been sensable to provide it at the trial,not hint at it on a forum
Whatever the intrest in the Grays MJ,spit out whatever you think you know or shut up about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The defence provided a moutain of evidence to the court which blew the prosections case apart but this was simply over looked. I'm awaiting some documents and when get them I will post them.
brummel
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-former...40586366.htm
Quote:
In respect of James Gray and James Gray Junior District Judge Andrew Vickers said in reaching the guilty verdict today: "Their failure to feed appropriately, water, care and treat when [horses were] ill is evidenced by such instances as dragging a horse, kicking it whilst on the ground and leaving it tied up on a trailer on a bag of food when it was emaciated. The carcasses were addressed by James Gray in evidence in a matter of fact manner as if he was dealing with a nuisance rather than a once living creature. They ought reasonably to have known that leaving the weak ones to go to the wall would cause suffering and it was easily preventable."
In respect of Julie Gray, Jodie Gray, and Cordelia Gray he said: "They had custody and control because they were on their land, either being brought or taken off. This was a commercial activity, it made money for the family to live on Spindles Farm, it bought the motor vehicles, the holidays etc and the involvement of all defendants in some degree more than others is a matter for sentence as guilt has been established."
Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-former...40586366.htm
Quote:
In respect of James Gray and James Gray Junior District Judge Andrew Vickers said in reaching the guilty verdict today: "Their failure to feed appropriately, water, care and treat when [horses were] ill is evidenced by such instances as dragging a horse, kicking it whilst on the ground and leaving it tied up on a trailer on a bag of food when it was emaciated. The carcasses were addressed by James Gray in evidence in a matter of fact manner as if he was dealing with a nuisance rather than a once living creature. They ought reasonably to have known that leaving the weak ones to go to the wall would cause suffering and it was easily preventable."
In respect of Julie Gray, Jodie Gray, and Cordelia Gray he said: "They had custody and control because they were on their land, either being brought or taken off. This was a commercial activity, it made money for the family to live on Spindles Farm, it bought the motor vehicles, the holidays etc and the involvement of all defendants in some degree more than others is a matter for sentence as guilt has been established."
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
so patty based on everything you have said, what exactley and WHY has JG been found guilty?
oh and the rest of the family.
oh and the rest of the family.
hadfos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is myjack/patty a friend or relation to Jamie Gray?
[/ QUOTE ]
Over the past 16months I have had my eyes opened and have been fortunate enough to speak to some members of the Gray family.
[/ QUOTE ]
AND is this how you look after ya own???
Because i believe you feel this is acceptable
...his son is a complete JACKASS....i saw his attitude when they left the courts
the whole family deserve to rot in hell for what they have done!
[ QUOTE ]
Is myjack/patty a friend or relation to Jamie Gray?
[/ QUOTE ]
Over the past 16months I have had my eyes opened and have been fortunate enough to speak to some members of the Gray family.
[/ QUOTE ]
AND is this how you look after ya own???
Because i believe you feel this is acceptable
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The answer to your first 4 questions is: "no, of course not."
To the last question - not cruel, rather the opposite - but perhaps also environmentally unfriendly unless you rang the council the next day to tell them it was there so they could remove it before it was a rotting mess of maggots that would potentially contaminate a water course.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Gray called the knacker man.
[ QUOTE ]
But of course none of these scenarios fit the Gray case. Carcases in advanced decay, skulls and skeletons don't happen in a day or two. And all those horses didn't arrive overnight - or get into that condition overnight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Comments such as this look like valid arguments at face value. But what I really cant seem to get my head around is that fact that I dont believe any of you people are stupid enough to believe that a man who trades in horses would purchase weighty, fit and healthy stock, just to take that stock back to his yard and leave it to loose condition and starve to death.
Please can you tell me what you believe he could have gained financially by doing this? Horses were his livelyhood - just how was he supposed to run a successful business if the media reports were true?
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who has horses - particularly if they have a lot of horses - will at SOME stage have a horse that - on first sight - looks like it might be a welfare case. I have one filly here (out of 60 odd) who was very thin for several months, now thankfully improving. But should the RSPCA show up on my door I could refer them to my vet, who has seen the filly five times, examined her thoroughly, done her teeth (which weren't 'bad') and run a raft of diagnostic tests on her - all of which were inconclusive but suggest possibly a virus JUST at the time she was having a growth spurt.
[/ QUOTE ]
EVERY single animal at Spindles farm were examined by the vet. They had to be because of the business Mr Gray was in. Mr Gray exported horses and ponies to and from Holland (mostly colourds - NOT for meat - he had no interest in the meat trade) To enable Mr Gray to do this he had to have a health certificate for every animal.
Bob Baskerville and Katie Robinson were rugulars at spindles farm. Not only did they examine horses and issue health certificates, but they would go to the farm at Mr Grays request if he needed a vet to any of the animals.
There were two occassions that stuck out to me. Once when a mare was having problems giving birth and another time when a foal was born with skin covering it's nostrils.
Mr Baskerville performed a C section on the mare but sadly the foal didnt survive.
And he performed surgery on the foal which was born with skin over it's nostrils, but the foal died in Mr Baskvilles hospital during aftercare.
If the RSPCA had of paid you a visit - you could have shown them the earth. Mr Gray produced his vet Mr Baskerville but the RSPCA didnt want to know.... There was a huge hay stack which was clear for all to see, sacks of hard feed, bales of straw. Yet they may as well have not been there because the RSPCA took no notice of them what so ever. Nor did they make mention of them in court - infact, the leading RSPCA inspector in the case said she didnt see any of it.....they bloody well couldnt miss it. it's the first thing you see at the emterance of the farm. However, she came unstuck because the RSPCA produced photographs with the hay stack in the background - photographs horses with sacks of hard feed in the background. Trust me - when they want a prosecution they will get one no matter what you show them, or what they have to do and say to get one. And with the number of horses you have, you could be an easy target.
[ QUOTE ]
I could also point to the generous quantities of good quality haylage in front of her all the time, and the condition of the two other fillies with her.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Grays animals all had food and water in front of them when the RSPCA arrived. On Friday the 9th they arrived at the farm at 10:30am - Mr Gray feeds his animals at 8am in the morning and at 5pm in the evening. So they would have had plenty of food and clean water when the RSPCA arrived at 10:30am that morning. Yet this didnt stop them telling the public and the court that there was no food and water on site or availible to the animals. And Mr Gray didnt need to point out the good condition of other animals - there were dozens of them right in front of their eyes. But of course - the public didnt get the privilage to see the photos of those animas. But I am awaiting them and will post them. I was in possession of them last year but my pc crashed and I am still awaiting for the data to be transfered.
[ QUOTE ]
The RSPCA
would go away KNOWING the filly was not neglected and that they had NO case for a prosecution (even though some of them would LOVE to prosecute me because of my hunting connections!)
[/ QUOTE ]
They may KNOW the filly was not neglected but please dont be so sure that they would go away.
[ QUOTE ]
But although we may not know every salient fact in the Gray case, large numbers of emaciated horses, living in sh*t and treading over dead bodies is MORE than enough evidence. And the convictions - by a judge (not a jury of possible bunny-huggers) provide further proof (if more is needed) of large scale neglect and cruelty!
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you please provide some evidence that a large number of Mr Grays animals were emaciated?
Evidence that they were living in sh*t?
And evidence that they were treading over dead bodies?
Thank you.
The answer to your first 4 questions is: "no, of course not."
To the last question - not cruel, rather the opposite - but perhaps also environmentally unfriendly unless you rang the council the next day to tell them it was there so they could remove it before it was a rotting mess of maggots that would potentially contaminate a water course.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Gray called the knacker man.
[ QUOTE ]
But of course none of these scenarios fit the Gray case. Carcases in advanced decay, skulls and skeletons don't happen in a day or two. And all those horses didn't arrive overnight - or get into that condition overnight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Comments such as this look like valid arguments at face value. But what I really cant seem to get my head around is that fact that I dont believe any of you people are stupid enough to believe that a man who trades in horses would purchase weighty, fit and healthy stock, just to take that stock back to his yard and leave it to loose condition and starve to death.
Please can you tell me what you believe he could have gained financially by doing this? Horses were his livelyhood - just how was he supposed to run a successful business if the media reports were true?
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who has horses - particularly if they have a lot of horses - will at SOME stage have a horse that - on first sight - looks like it might be a welfare case. I have one filly here (out of 60 odd) who was very thin for several months, now thankfully improving. But should the RSPCA show up on my door I could refer them to my vet, who has seen the filly five times, examined her thoroughly, done her teeth (which weren't 'bad') and run a raft of diagnostic tests on her - all of which were inconclusive but suggest possibly a virus JUST at the time she was having a growth spurt.
[/ QUOTE ]
EVERY single animal at Spindles farm were examined by the vet. They had to be because of the business Mr Gray was in. Mr Gray exported horses and ponies to and from Holland (mostly colourds - NOT for meat - he had no interest in the meat trade) To enable Mr Gray to do this he had to have a health certificate for every animal.
Bob Baskerville and Katie Robinson were rugulars at spindles farm. Not only did they examine horses and issue health certificates, but they would go to the farm at Mr Grays request if he needed a vet to any of the animals.
There were two occassions that stuck out to me. Once when a mare was having problems giving birth and another time when a foal was born with skin covering it's nostrils.
Mr Baskerville performed a C section on the mare but sadly the foal didnt survive.
And he performed surgery on the foal which was born with skin over it's nostrils, but the foal died in Mr Baskvilles hospital during aftercare.
If the RSPCA had of paid you a visit - you could have shown them the earth. Mr Gray produced his vet Mr Baskerville but the RSPCA didnt want to know.... There was a huge hay stack which was clear for all to see, sacks of hard feed, bales of straw. Yet they may as well have not been there because the RSPCA took no notice of them what so ever. Nor did they make mention of them in court - infact, the leading RSPCA inspector in the case said she didnt see any of it.....they bloody well couldnt miss it. it's the first thing you see at the emterance of the farm. However, she came unstuck because the RSPCA produced photographs with the hay stack in the background - photographs horses with sacks of hard feed in the background. Trust me - when they want a prosecution they will get one no matter what you show them, or what they have to do and say to get one. And with the number of horses you have, you could be an easy target.
[ QUOTE ]
I could also point to the generous quantities of good quality haylage in front of her all the time, and the condition of the two other fillies with her.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr Grays animals all had food and water in front of them when the RSPCA arrived. On Friday the 9th they arrived at the farm at 10:30am - Mr Gray feeds his animals at 8am in the morning and at 5pm in the evening. So they would have had plenty of food and clean water when the RSPCA arrived at 10:30am that morning. Yet this didnt stop them telling the public and the court that there was no food and water on site or availible to the animals. And Mr Gray didnt need to point out the good condition of other animals - there were dozens of them right in front of their eyes. But of course - the public didnt get the privilage to see the photos of those animas. But I am awaiting them and will post them. I was in possession of them last year but my pc crashed and I am still awaiting for the data to be transfered.
[ QUOTE ]
The RSPCA
would go away KNOWING the filly was not neglected and that they had NO case for a prosecution (even though some of them would LOVE to prosecute me because of my hunting connections!)
[/ QUOTE ]
They may KNOW the filly was not neglected but please dont be so sure that they would go away.
[ QUOTE ]
But although we may not know every salient fact in the Gray case, large numbers of emaciated horses, living in sh*t and treading over dead bodies is MORE than enough evidence. And the convictions - by a judge (not a jury of possible bunny-huggers) provide further proof (if more is needed) of large scale neglect and cruelty!
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you please provide some evidence that a large number of Mr Grays animals were emaciated?
Evidence that they were living in sh*t?
And evidence that they were treading over dead bodies?
Thank you.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
They are all full of it and all info can be found online so you don't need to have been at the trial to find it ...And NOWHERE does it state that Bob Baskerville was J.G's vet, opposite as a matter of fact,personally I would have my vet testifying for ME not the other side..
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm awaiting some documents. Hopefully I will have them within the next couple of days. I will post them.
What do you think Mr Gray said - here, use my vet and tell as much bullcrap as you can about me? Grow a brain PW.
[ QUOTE ]
I have left messages for Katie and Peter Fennelly on their mobiles,so i am hoping that I will hear the truth from the horses mouth.
[/ QUOTE ]
While you're at it direct Ms Robinson to this forum. Hopefully she'll come and let me twist her in knots about her lies, like the defence team did.
[ QUOTE ]
Bob is retired after his accident with the youngster last year, so i don't want to bother him.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bob looked perfectly ok in the court. If you do decide to 'bother' him, direct him to this forum too.
[ QUOTE ]
If it was any truth in it Katie would have told me when she treated my horse last year.Or i will ring the girls in the reception in the morning !
I have been a client with them since 1992 so they will tell me
[/ QUOTE ]
While you're at it tell Katie Robinson that I am going to post health documants with HER signature on the bottom of them.
They are all full of it and all info can be found online so you don't need to have been at the trial to find it ...And NOWHERE does it state that Bob Baskerville was J.G's vet, opposite as a matter of fact,personally I would have my vet testifying for ME not the other side..
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm awaiting some documents. Hopefully I will have them within the next couple of days. I will post them.
What do you think Mr Gray said - here, use my vet and tell as much bullcrap as you can about me? Grow a brain PW.
[ QUOTE ]
I have left messages for Katie and Peter Fennelly on their mobiles,so i am hoping that I will hear the truth from the horses mouth.
[/ QUOTE ]
While you're at it direct Ms Robinson to this forum. Hopefully she'll come and let me twist her in knots about her lies, like the defence team did.
[ QUOTE ]
Bob is retired after his accident with the youngster last year, so i don't want to bother him.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bob looked perfectly ok in the court. If you do decide to 'bother' him, direct him to this forum too.
[ QUOTE ]
If it was any truth in it Katie would have told me when she treated my horse last year.Or i will ring the girls in the reception in the morning !
I have been a client with them since 1992 so they will tell me
[/ QUOTE ]
While you're at it tell Katie Robinson that I am going to post health documants with HER signature on the bottom of them.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
paddywack - they might tell you but it would still be entirely wrong to reproduce that information here if it is not from a properly sanctioned source - after all there may yet be an appeal.
I don't go for all the rubbish spouted by patty. Some might have some truth buried deep within it but I have other questions.
If, has been suggested, these animals were already in a very poor state before JG purchased them, why on earth did he buy them? Is he claiming to be a poor businessman and complete numpty at judging horseflesh rather than cruel and neglectful?
[/ QUOTE ]
There were 2 'poor' horses among them...if you are saying there were more then maybe you can produce some proof?
[ QUOTE ]
Why have further emaciated animals been removed from him in the months since the original raid (which are now recovering BTW) - does he keep buying skinny, nearly dead ponies?
[/ QUOTE ]
The RSPCA went to the farm and removed two horses against the advice of the vet. They removed them because they both had a scratch on a leg. If they were emaciated then why has Mr Gray not been prosecuted for them 2?
The RSPCA was wrong - and the vet was extremely angry with them....that vet wrote a full report and said they were harassing Mr Gray.
[ QUOTE ]
Why did he have so many animals in such poor condition?
[/ QUOTE ]
Please show anything to support that there were in fact so many animals in such poor condition?
[ QUOTE ]
A responsible person would have cut down their stock to a level where they could manage it properly, not just keep buying more and more and more until they are overcrowded and living in squalor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where is your proof to support such a statement?
The court heard that Mr Gray has been a successful horseman for many years. Do you believe he was successful by buying stock and overcrowding them to a point where they were living in squalor and unmanageable?
paddywack - they might tell you but it would still be entirely wrong to reproduce that information here if it is not from a properly sanctioned source - after all there may yet be an appeal.
I don't go for all the rubbish spouted by patty. Some might have some truth buried deep within it but I have other questions.
If, has been suggested, these animals were already in a very poor state before JG purchased them, why on earth did he buy them? Is he claiming to be a poor businessman and complete numpty at judging horseflesh rather than cruel and neglectful?
[/ QUOTE ]
There were 2 'poor' horses among them...if you are saying there were more then maybe you can produce some proof?
[ QUOTE ]
Why have further emaciated animals been removed from him in the months since the original raid (which are now recovering BTW) - does he keep buying skinny, nearly dead ponies?
[/ QUOTE ]
The RSPCA went to the farm and removed two horses against the advice of the vet. They removed them because they both had a scratch on a leg. If they were emaciated then why has Mr Gray not been prosecuted for them 2?
The RSPCA was wrong - and the vet was extremely angry with them....that vet wrote a full report and said they were harassing Mr Gray.
[ QUOTE ]
Why did he have so many animals in such poor condition?
[/ QUOTE ]
Please show anything to support that there were in fact so many animals in such poor condition?
[ QUOTE ]
A responsible person would have cut down their stock to a level where they could manage it properly, not just keep buying more and more and more until they are overcrowded and living in squalor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where is your proof to support such a statement?
The court heard that Mr Gray has been a successful horseman for many years. Do you believe he was successful by buying stock and overcrowding them to a point where they were living in squalor and unmanageable?
Natch
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Is myjack/patty a friend or relation to Jamie Gray?
Over the past 16months I have had my eyes opened and have been fortunate enough to speak to some members of the Gray family.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for answering all my questions MJ.
However, I dont feel you have truly and thoroughly explained who you are.
You later go on to say you are not a relation of the grey family, am I correct?
In which case I have the following questions:
How do you know James grey?
What relationship do/have you had with the man? I.e. romantic/worked together, other halves knew each other, served him in the pub...?
When did you first meet him?
Ditto for the rest of his family.
Thank you.
Quote:
Is myjack/patty a friend or relation to Jamie Gray?
Over the past 16months I have had my eyes opened and have been fortunate enough to speak to some members of the Gray family.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for answering all my questions MJ.
However, I dont feel you have truly and thoroughly explained who you are.
You later go on to say you are not a relation of the grey family, am I correct?
In which case I have the following questions:
How do you know James grey?
What relationship do/have you had with the man? I.e. romantic/worked together, other halves knew each other, served him in the pub...?
When did you first meet him?
Ditto for the rest of his family.
Thank you.
patty19
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
if patty and family put as much effort into looking after there horses as they do posting on here this could all be avoided
[/ QUOTE ]
I sold my horse last year so I dont have one to look after.
And my family are not 'horsey' people.
if patty and family put as much effort into looking after there horses as they do posting on here this could all be avoided
[/ QUOTE ]
I sold my horse last year so I dont have one to look after.
And my family are not 'horsey' people.
Natch
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I took a breather and did some logical thinking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you mind telling me what you came up with?
<font color="green"> the question below </font>
[ QUOTE ]
And now would like to know what your justification is for the photographic and video evidence of rotting corpses? Do you claim they were not james grey's responsibility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two animals went down that morning. A Gray pony and the pony near the water trough.. The pony near the water trough was PTS.
Some of the other animals were pets that had been buried.
<font color="green"> I did not see anything that could have been an unearthed buried corpse. I did see plenty of rotting corpses. </font>
Others were to be collected by the knacker man.
<font color="green"> Sorry, I really do not believe that James Grey arranged for removal of the dead stock within a reasonable time frame. </font> Another shetland which was a pet and was going to be buried. Mr Grays machine broke down and he had gone to get a part for it when the RSPCA arrived. He reveived a phone call telling him that the RSPCA was at the farm so he turned around and went back. <font color="green"> I don't see how this is relevant?</font>
Mr Gray used the same knacker man as the RSPCA in that area. <font color="green"> I don't see the relevance of this either. </font>
2 weeks prior to the RSPCA arriving at the farm, an RSPCA inspector named Claire Ryder stopped by the farm on her way back to her parents home for the christmas holiday. She and Mrs Gray had a general conversation in which she commented on Mrs Grays coat. In her evidence she said all was well at the farm and she saw no dead animals. She also contradicted the RSPCA and media reports about the food, water and bedding situations on the 9th.
On the 21st of December vet Katie Robinson from Bob Baskervilles practice, was in the yard examining animals at Mr Grays request. She used pen 3 to examine each animal. then she issued health certificates for all those animals. She neither saw dead animals.
Mr Gray lost alot of his stock in 2 weeks.
<font color="green"> Another thing I find highly unlikely. </font>
[ QUOTE ]
I am also patiently awaiting a reply to the quoted post above. In your own time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you may be speaking of a post I have not long just replied to. If I am wrong please bring the post to my attention.
<font color="green"> You have since replied. Thank you. </font>
Thank you.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I took a breather and did some logical thinking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you mind telling me what you came up with?
<font color="green"> the question below </font>
[ QUOTE ]
And now would like to know what your justification is for the photographic and video evidence of rotting corpses? Do you claim they were not james grey's responsibility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two animals went down that morning. A Gray pony and the pony near the water trough.. The pony near the water trough was PTS.
Some of the other animals were pets that had been buried.
<font color="green"> I did not see anything that could have been an unearthed buried corpse. I did see plenty of rotting corpses. </font>
Others were to be collected by the knacker man.
<font color="green"> Sorry, I really do not believe that James Grey arranged for removal of the dead stock within a reasonable time frame. </font> Another shetland which was a pet and was going to be buried. Mr Grays machine broke down and he had gone to get a part for it when the RSPCA arrived. He reveived a phone call telling him that the RSPCA was at the farm so he turned around and went back. <font color="green"> I don't see how this is relevant?</font>
Mr Gray used the same knacker man as the RSPCA in that area. <font color="green"> I don't see the relevance of this either. </font>
2 weeks prior to the RSPCA arriving at the farm, an RSPCA inspector named Claire Ryder stopped by the farm on her way back to her parents home for the christmas holiday. She and Mrs Gray had a general conversation in which she commented on Mrs Grays coat. In her evidence she said all was well at the farm and she saw no dead animals. She also contradicted the RSPCA and media reports about the food, water and bedding situations on the 9th.
On the 21st of December vet Katie Robinson from Bob Baskervilles practice, was in the yard examining animals at Mr Grays request. She used pen 3 to examine each animal. then she issued health certificates for all those animals. She neither saw dead animals.
Mr Gray lost alot of his stock in 2 weeks.
<font color="green"> Another thing I find highly unlikely. </font>
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I am also patiently awaiting a reply to the quoted post above. In your own time.
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I think you may be speaking of a post I have not long just replied to. If I am wrong please bring the post to my attention.
<font color="green"> You have since replied. Thank you. </font>
Thank you.
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shellonabeach
Well-Known Member
I have some questions I would like to ask Patty about individual animals whose condition I have seen in numerous video's with my own eyes:
The dark bay / black with the no 58 sprayed on
The bay cob with diarrohea no KH15
The fallen grey no 5
The fallen bay by the water trough
For these animals if you can remember from the trial please could you explain how long JG had owned each of these animals for and where he had bought them from - private home / UK auction / abroad / another dealer etc.
I personally cannot understand as a trader why he would buy animals in such a state, surely the vet bills / feeding costs to put them right would negate any profit to be made?
The dark bay / black with the no 58 sprayed on
The bay cob with diarrohea no KH15
The fallen grey no 5
The fallen bay by the water trough
For these animals if you can remember from the trial please could you explain how long JG had owned each of these animals for and where he had bought them from - private home / UK auction / abroad / another dealer etc.
I personally cannot understand as a trader why he would buy animals in such a state, surely the vet bills / feeding costs to put them right would negate any profit to be made?
Natch
Well-Known Member
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and he in his good heartedness did all in his godly power to do his best for them to change there fortune???
i beg to differ
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I can see you are being sarcastic to me, so maybe you can tell me what Mr Gray, a TRADER, could possibly gain if he had purchased fit weighty animals, took them back to his yard, and starved them to death?
Please do enlighten me because it never entered my mind that a trader gained finanically by purchasing healthy animals then leaving them to die of starvation.
Thank you.
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99.999% of people cannot understand why anybody would be so neglectful of their animals as Mr Grey has appeared to, and has now been found guilty of. So I don't have a clue but would hazard a guess at:
1) The operation grew too big
2) Funds were short
But really, who but the man himself knows why there were so many horses that were starving and dead on his property.
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and he in his good heartedness did all in his godly power to do his best for them to change there fortune???
i beg to differ
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I can see you are being sarcastic to me, so maybe you can tell me what Mr Gray, a TRADER, could possibly gain if he had purchased fit weighty animals, took them back to his yard, and starved them to death?
Please do enlighten me because it never entered my mind that a trader gained finanically by purchasing healthy animals then leaving them to die of starvation.
Thank you.
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99.999% of people cannot understand why anybody would be so neglectful of their animals as Mr Grey has appeared to, and has now been found guilty of. So I don't have a clue but would hazard a guess at:
1) The operation grew too big
2) Funds were short
But really, who but the man himself knows why there were so many horses that were starving and dead on his property.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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I dont trust the RSPCA one little bit... But some of the carcases that are on the video are more than a week old.
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Correct....some were two weeks old and some were dug up.
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Why did he not drag all the dead out into one area to await collection by the knacker?
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He did - He put them in a place where live animals couldnt get to.
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Why were there 2 or 3 carcases left in with the living horses?
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Two ponies went down on the morning of the 9th. A gray pony and another pony near a water trough. Mr Gray feeds his animals at 8am and 5pm in the day. Mr Gray was going to move the Gray pony but RSPCA arrived at 10:30 so he didnt have time to move it before they began snapping away with thier camera. The other pony was PTS. There were no dead animals among the living. The pony near the trough wasnt in long. Mr Gray was going to move it into another pen but RSPCA arrived.
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Why was the bedding in the video in such a disgusting state (I have seen deep litter with cattle sheep and horses (barn kept) and its pretty much clean)
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What bedding was that?
The RSPCA arrived and stopped Mr Grays hired man from cleaning out the pens with his machine. They got the police to remove him.
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I cant get my head around it you are right that its not good business practice to starve horses I dont understand it!!!
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Where is the evidence to support that Mr Gray starved any of his animals?
I dont trust the RSPCA one little bit... But some of the carcases that are on the video are more than a week old.
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Correct....some were two weeks old and some were dug up.
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Why did he not drag all the dead out into one area to await collection by the knacker?
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He did - He put them in a place where live animals couldnt get to.
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Why were there 2 or 3 carcases left in with the living horses?
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Two ponies went down on the morning of the 9th. A gray pony and another pony near a water trough. Mr Gray feeds his animals at 8am and 5pm in the day. Mr Gray was going to move the Gray pony but RSPCA arrived at 10:30 so he didnt have time to move it before they began snapping away with thier camera. The other pony was PTS. There were no dead animals among the living. The pony near the trough wasnt in long. Mr Gray was going to move it into another pen but RSPCA arrived.
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Why was the bedding in the video in such a disgusting state (I have seen deep litter with cattle sheep and horses (barn kept) and its pretty much clean)
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What bedding was that?
The RSPCA arrived and stopped Mr Grays hired man from cleaning out the pens with his machine. They got the police to remove him.
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I cant get my head around it you are right that its not good business practice to starve horses I dont understand it!!!
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Where is the evidence to support that Mr Gray starved any of his animals?
patty19
Well-Known Member
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what in neglecting and starving innocent horses and ponies??? yes you are correct he is most successful at this
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You say you dont believe everything the media says yet you believe this.
If it's not the media you are believing please show some proof to support the statement you have just made?
what in neglecting and starving innocent horses and ponies??? yes you are correct he is most successful at this
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You say you dont believe everything the media says yet you believe this.
If it's not the media you are believing please show some proof to support the statement you have just made?
patty19
Well-Known Member
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i would never dream of being sarcastic- simply ironic, sarcasm with out any nasty intent
insidently do any of your replies consist of any thing other that the media lying and the rspca lying as these excuses are now rather tedious
best wishes
x
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I am waiting for some documents and photographs, and the day I get them this board will see them that very day. They should arrive in the next couple of days.
I witnessed a hell of alot while sitting at the back of that court room.....thats besides all the information I gathered from day one.
I went to the farm and was dumbfounded that the picture that was painted by the RSPCA was as far away from reality as it could possibly get. What also shocked me was the fact that there was a huge hay stack that can be seen from outside the yard yet according to the RSPCA there was no food on site. That was just out and out ridiculous because they had to walk past it before they reached anyother part of the yard.
I have mentioned many names in these past couple of days. If what I have said about these people is not true then I could be in serious trouble.
The RSPCA can do as they please so I'm sure that if I publically told lies about them, they would just love to prosecute my ass.
i would never dream of being sarcastic- simply ironic, sarcasm with out any nasty intent
insidently do any of your replies consist of any thing other that the media lying and the rspca lying as these excuses are now rather tedious
best wishes
x
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I am waiting for some documents and photographs, and the day I get them this board will see them that very day. They should arrive in the next couple of days.
I witnessed a hell of alot while sitting at the back of that court room.....thats besides all the information I gathered from day one.
I went to the farm and was dumbfounded that the picture that was painted by the RSPCA was as far away from reality as it could possibly get. What also shocked me was the fact that there was a huge hay stack that can be seen from outside the yard yet according to the RSPCA there was no food on site. That was just out and out ridiculous because they had to walk past it before they reached anyother part of the yard.
I have mentioned many names in these past couple of days. If what I have said about these people is not true then I could be in serious trouble.
The RSPCA can do as they please so I'm sure that if I publically told lies about them, they would just love to prosecute my ass.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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Mr Gray lost alot of his stock in 2 weeks.
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Well, wasn't that just careless..........
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In what way? That the animals were host to a worm burden that wasnt effected by a wormer and can kill its host without giving any signs of the animal being ill?
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Mr Gray lost alot of his stock in 2 weeks.
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Well, wasn't that just careless..........
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In what way? That the animals were host to a worm burden that wasnt effected by a wormer and can kill its host without giving any signs of the animal being ill?
patty19
Well-Known Member
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if patty and family put as much effort into looking after there horses as they do posting on here this could all be avoided
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Good point
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PW, are you a coward?
The reason I ask this is because you have me on ignor - probably because you know that any hogwash you you come out with will collaps under scrutiny.....Yet you keep popping down from the safty of your fence to give snide little jabs.
Grow a backbone PW, come out give it your best.
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if patty and family put as much effort into looking after there horses as they do posting on here this could all be avoided
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Good point
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PW, are you a coward?
The reason I ask this is because you have me on ignor - probably because you know that any hogwash you you come out with will collaps under scrutiny.....Yet you keep popping down from the safty of your fence to give snide little jabs.
Grow a backbone PW, come out give it your best.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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How many of the seized animals have died of their pre-exisitng conditions since they were taken into custody/care?
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Several.....Cant remember the exact number but I do remember one case was a donkey that caught strangles at the sanctuary not so very long ago.
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Of these, how many died suddenly and had their badly decomposed carcases left in situ for all to see, and how many animals have been promptly and humanely destroyed to end their suffering?
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What proof do you have to support the idea the dead were left in situ?
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I'm guessing there have been a few which failed to respond to treatment and am quite prepared to believe some of these might well have died or gone terminally downhill in a very short space of time. I am absolutely certain the carcases would have been promptly removed and any suffering horses just as promptly had their suffering alliviated or ended if necessary.
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What makes you so sure that the animals were suffering?
And if any animal was suffering what makes you so sure that it wasnt alleviated?
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There is no need for inhumanity towards animals
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I agree.
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and as long as the welfare code is adhered to, there should never be scenarios as were witnessed at Spindles Farm. If you can't physically manage to do this, you don't have animals. No excuses. Sorry.
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And what scenario was witnessed at Spindles farm?
And what proof do you have to support the scenario that you believe was witnessed at spindles farm?
How many of the seized animals have died of their pre-exisitng conditions since they were taken into custody/care?
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Several.....Cant remember the exact number but I do remember one case was a donkey that caught strangles at the sanctuary not so very long ago.
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Of these, how many died suddenly and had their badly decomposed carcases left in situ for all to see, and how many animals have been promptly and humanely destroyed to end their suffering?
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What proof do you have to support the idea the dead were left in situ?
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I'm guessing there have been a few which failed to respond to treatment and am quite prepared to believe some of these might well have died or gone terminally downhill in a very short space of time. I am absolutely certain the carcases would have been promptly removed and any suffering horses just as promptly had their suffering alliviated or ended if necessary.
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What makes you so sure that the animals were suffering?
And if any animal was suffering what makes you so sure that it wasnt alleviated?
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There is no need for inhumanity towards animals
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I agree.
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and as long as the welfare code is adhered to, there should never be scenarios as were witnessed at Spindles Farm. If you can't physically manage to do this, you don't have animals. No excuses. Sorry.
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And what scenario was witnessed at Spindles farm?
And what proof do you have to support the scenario that you believe was witnessed at spindles farm?
patty19
Well-Known Member
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LOL! Had a look and I have no idea where to start! I will have a good mooch through tomorrow!
Are the SHG involved do you know? I looked on their site today but couldnt find an update.
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Not as far as I know.
LOL! Had a look and I have no idea where to start! I will have a good mooch through tomorrow!
Are the SHG involved do you know? I looked on their site today but couldnt find an update.
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Not as far as I know.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
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http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-former...40586366.htm
Quote:
In respect of James Gray and James Gray Junior District Judge Andrew Vickers said in reaching the guilty verdict today: "Their failure to feed appropriately, water, care and treat when [horses were] ill is evidenced by such instances as dragging a horse, kicking it whilst on the ground and leaving it tied up on a trailer on a bag of food when it was emaciated.
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There is not a shred of evidence that Mr Gray or his son failed to feed appropriately, water, and care for any of the animals. Mr Gray fed the animals twice a day, and all vets agreed this was normal practice. Obiviously the judge thought different.
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The carcasses were addressed by James Gray in evidence in a matter of fact manner as if he was dealing with a nuisance rather than a once living creature.
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Thats a matter of opinion. Personally I dont think Mr gray came across in that maner.
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They ought reasonably to have known that leaving the weak ones to go to the wall would cause suffering and it was easily preventable."
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Again, not a single shred of evidence to support that Mr Gray left weak animals to go to the wall. That may have been summised but there was no proof what so ever to state that as a fact. And there wasnt a shred of evidence to support that any of the dead animals were weak or suffering, let alone any evidence to support that Mr Gray could have prevented it.
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In respect of Julie Gray, Jodie Gray, and Cordelia Gray he said: "They had custody and control because they were on their land, either being brought or taken off.
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Again, no evidence what so ever. Not even the prosecution claimed that they had custody and control of anything, nor that the land was owned by Jodie and Cordelia. Nor was there a shred of evidence to support that any of the women brough or took any animals off and on the land. Why would the land belong to Jodie and Cordelia? Jodie is married and has been for 8 years and has a home of her own where she lives with her husband and children. And Cordelia didnt live at the farm at that time either. Such a conclusion was reached without even looking at the deeds to which none of their names are on anyway. Mrs Gray and Jodie Gray are both petrified of horses, and this was verifies by RSPCA inspector Claire Ryder when giving her evidence.
The RSPCA summised Jodie and Cordelia lived at the farm because they were there to support their parents. This was all given in evidence and wasnt refuted - yet for some unknown reason the judge thinks they own the land.
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This was a commercial activity, it made money for the family to live on Spindles Farm, it bought the motor vehicles, the holidays etc and the involvement of all defendants in some degree more than others is a matter for sentence as guilt has been established."
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Neither the defence or prosecution argued that the business made money for Jodie and Cordelia to live at spindles farm, bought them motor vehicles, and holidays. This just came out of nowhere. They never even argued that the bussiness made money for Julie who does llive at the farm.
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Is there any way of getting access to what was said in court?
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http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-former...40586366.htm
Quote:
In respect of James Gray and James Gray Junior District Judge Andrew Vickers said in reaching the guilty verdict today: "Their failure to feed appropriately, water, care and treat when [horses were] ill is evidenced by such instances as dragging a horse, kicking it whilst on the ground and leaving it tied up on a trailer on a bag of food when it was emaciated.
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There is not a shred of evidence that Mr Gray or his son failed to feed appropriately, water, and care for any of the animals. Mr Gray fed the animals twice a day, and all vets agreed this was normal practice. Obiviously the judge thought different.
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The carcasses were addressed by James Gray in evidence in a matter of fact manner as if he was dealing with a nuisance rather than a once living creature.
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Thats a matter of opinion. Personally I dont think Mr gray came across in that maner.
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They ought reasonably to have known that leaving the weak ones to go to the wall would cause suffering and it was easily preventable."
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Again, not a single shred of evidence to support that Mr Gray left weak animals to go to the wall. That may have been summised but there was no proof what so ever to state that as a fact. And there wasnt a shred of evidence to support that any of the dead animals were weak or suffering, let alone any evidence to support that Mr Gray could have prevented it.
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In respect of Julie Gray, Jodie Gray, and Cordelia Gray he said: "They had custody and control because they were on their land, either being brought or taken off.
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Again, no evidence what so ever. Not even the prosecution claimed that they had custody and control of anything, nor that the land was owned by Jodie and Cordelia. Nor was there a shred of evidence to support that any of the women brough or took any animals off and on the land. Why would the land belong to Jodie and Cordelia? Jodie is married and has been for 8 years and has a home of her own where she lives with her husband and children. And Cordelia didnt live at the farm at that time either. Such a conclusion was reached without even looking at the deeds to which none of their names are on anyway. Mrs Gray and Jodie Gray are both petrified of horses, and this was verifies by RSPCA inspector Claire Ryder when giving her evidence.
The RSPCA summised Jodie and Cordelia lived at the farm because they were there to support their parents. This was all given in evidence and wasnt refuted - yet for some unknown reason the judge thinks they own the land.
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This was a commercial activity, it made money for the family to live on Spindles Farm, it bought the motor vehicles, the holidays etc and the involvement of all defendants in some degree more than others is a matter for sentence as guilt has been established."
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Neither the defence or prosecution argued that the business made money for Jodie and Cordelia to live at spindles farm, bought them motor vehicles, and holidays. This just came out of nowhere. They never even argued that the bussiness made money for Julie who does llive at the farm.
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
I got 2 photos of some of the ponies removed from the farm,but not sure how to post them in here. I took them with my phone when we were up there poopicking the fields at The Horse Trust. It was 3 weeks or so after they have been removed..
MJ/Patty has always asked for photographic evidence,well here it is,but please help me to post them .
MJ/Patty has always asked for photographic evidence,well here it is,but please help me to post them .
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
uploaded photos onto photo bucket but cant post them in here
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
anyone thats seen them at the trust knows that this is the barn where they were kept
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