So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[RachelFerd]

Probably yeah, if I followed what you’ve suggested I’d have never done any physical activity at all, yet I did lots ?‍, as did all my friends

tangent here - but it doesn't even need to be competitive - but you have to see what's possible to feel inspired, right? I took up aerial silks because I saw the cool stuff that cirque soleil did - even though I knew that I was never going to join the cirque du soleil. But there were kids who started at the circus school who do go on to be professional performers - and maybe they'll even make it into the cirque du soleil!

I wouldn't have started swinging around on bits of fabric hung from the ceiling with any kind of focus, without being inspired by what the best people can do with them.

 

[Snowfilly]

Do you think so many kids would want to play football if the Premier League didn't exist?

I worked for 5 years in sports development for the local council, and much of my role was developing sporting opportunities for 7-11 year olds, as well as working in schools. I did a lot of market research with them about what sports they played and what they wanted.

Top level sport was generally mentioned only by the ones who were from sporty families and or talented and thinking of it. Time and time again, your average kids listed 1) stuff I can with my friends 2) things I don’t have to travel far for (there’s a current of resentment in a lot of families about travelling to sport and the kids know it) 3) things that are fun.

They don’t, as a whole, watch a lot of sport unless they’re already in that sport and keen.

Most of my regular basketballers / netballers/ swimmers couldn’t mention more than 1 or 2 people who played and weren’t interested in the higher levels at all. They just want to have fun.


And that, in a lot of sports, is acknowledged all the way through. Most participants aren’t interested in top level.

 

[Season’s Bleatings]

It’s interesting to see how things are unfolding atm. I’m in no position to event this year anyway - and I’m not ever going to set the eventing world on fire.
Over here, we have much fewer in the way of unaff ODEs - we often have 2 phase events, but there is maybe less conflict between aff/unaff.
In our region of EI, the calendar this season has been significantly slimmed down due to rising cost and lower entries, and EI80 classes are being brought to all but 1 event - until now, the inclusion of these has been the exception rather than the rule.

 

[ester]

I don’t think I work/tick on being inspired ?‍, I just try stuff and if I enjoy it keep doing it. I rather presumed that was the same for most.

 

[Old school]

It’s interesting to see how things are unfolding atm. I’m in no position to event this year anyway - and I’m not ever going to set the eventing world on fire.
Over here, we have much fewer in the way of unaff ODEs - we often have 2 phase events, but there is maybe less conflict between aff/unaff.
In our region of EI, the calendar this season has been significantly slimmed down due to rising cost and lower entries, and EI80 classes are being brought to all but 1 event - until now, the inclusion of these has been the exception rather than the rule.

On this side of the country there were/are plenty of unaffiliated events, both on current EI venues and past ones. Since early April you could have evented prob every second weekend without more than an hours drive.

 

[Season’s Bleatings]

On this side of the country there were/are plenty of unaffiliated events, both on current EI venues and past ones. Since early April you could have evented prob every second weekend without more than an hours drive.

There’s stacks of jumping/xc events, 2 phases and derbys etc but the full ODE seems to be a rarity now.
Dressage Ireland have also recently introduced some fairly tricky rules around how dressage judges are police checked which is impacting on aff dressage up here too, not sure if it’s a DI ruling or an HSI one but I presume it has potential to impact on eventing too.

 

[RachelFerd]

I don’t think I work/tick on being inspired ?‍, I just try stuff and if I enjoy it keep doing it. I rather presumed that was the same for most.

Haha, yes - I clearly only work on being inspired and presumed it was the same for others too!

 

[teapot]

I’m going to be bold here and maybe mention the elephant in the room. I’ve never evented but I’ve walked enough courses at 90 to Int (plus the big ones) with friends, old bosses etc, and can recognise a tough line, good/bad ground, and unfit or poor riding when I see it. So not completely without an eye on the sport from my comfy chair…

This push for good ground, I want to show jump on a surface, I’m withdrawing if it’s a mm too firm, omg there’s a hill, can’t possibly gallop up and down that etc - the sanitisation of the sport if you will, is doing far more damage. Ie BE’s own members are pushing it in a direction away from what @RachelFerd (and others) need and want

Is it a lack of education? Oh well I want to sj on a surface, when actually jumping off decent grass cover/parkland gives you a better feel, convenience, lack of fitness, not willing cough not able cough to ride what’s in front of you (remember the days pre course walk apps and photos?), limited experience of rainy days etc (I won’t go on…), portable courses (see all the comments from the pros over the last year)…

So is the search for the perfect event killing off the sport?

I think it might be.

 

[ycbm]

If you think of eventing as a whole, as a kind of equestrian society

But I don't and I never did. I thought of it as a way to jump a big, fast, exciting cross country course.

I suspect I was in the majority at the time, and quite possibly I would still be now.

The argument you are putting forward is like saying I should pay more for my ticket at my local regional theatre so that someone else can go and watch opera in London at a reduced price.

 

[ester]

Just seen a post from Dorset show ground struggling to get entries for their grass arena BS show- one did point out it’s not worth getting studs when they are the only grass sJ option locally.

 

[ycbm]

why does a child choose to start a sport without there being the dream of being able to do it at the top levels??

Because someone invites or directs (school PE class) them to try a sport and they enjoy it enough to want to carry on doing it. I suspect that's the vast majority, the ones dreaming of doing it at top level being a tiny minority of children and a bit bigger, but still a minority, of parents.
.

 

[ycbm]

I’m going to be bold here and maybe mention the elephant in the room. I’ve never evented but I’ve walked enough courses at 90 to Int (plus the big ones) with friends, old bosses etc, and can recognise a tough line, good/bad ground, and unfit or poor riding when I see it. So not completely without an eye on the sport from my comfy chair…

This push for good ground, I want to show jump on a surface, I’m withdrawing if it’s a mm too firm, omg there’s a hill, can’t possibly gallop up and down that etc - the sanitisation of the sport if you will, is doing far more damage. Ie BE’s own members are pushing it in a direction away from what @RachelFerd (and others) need and want

Is it a lack of education? Oh well I want to sj on a surface, when actually jumping off decent grass cover/parkland gives you a better feel, convenience, lack of fitness, not willing cough not able cough to ride what’s in front of you (remember the days pre course walk apps and photos?), limited experience of rainy days etc (I won’t go on…), portable courses (see all the comments from the pros over the last year)…

So is the search for the perfect event killing off the sport?

I think it might be.

Bloody brilliant post Teapot, you're onto something there.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I’m going to be bold here and maybe mention the elephant in the room. I’ve never evented but I’ve walked enough courses at 90 to Int (plus the big ones) with friends, old bosses etc, and can recognise a tough line, good/bad ground, and unfit or poor riding when I see it. So not completely without an eye on the sport from my comfy chair…

This push for good ground, I want to show jump on a surface, I’m withdrawing if it’s a mm too firm, omg there’s a hill, can’t possibly gallop up and down that etc - the sanitisation of the sport if you will, is doing far more damage. Ie BE’s own members are pushing it in a direction away from what @RachelFerd (and others) need and want

Is it a lack of education? Oh well I want to sj on a surface, when actually jumping off decent grass cover/parkland gives you a better feel, convenience, lack of fitness, not willing cough not able cough to ride what’s in front of you (remember the days pre course walk apps and photos?), limited experience of rainy days etc (I won’t go on…), portable courses (see all the comments from the pros over the last year)…

So is the search for the perfect event killing off the sport?

I think it might be.

It's not just eventing though. Everyone wants to be on a surface! Showing is probably the only exception in summer months as most showing shows run on grass. Though you do go somewhere with a surface and the working hunter brigade demand to jump on the surface ?

No one wants to do dressage on grass. No one wants to show jump on grass.

I have always preferred grass as that is all I have at home. My lot meet surfaces for the first time at shows - which can lead to some interesting discussions with the youngsters stepping onto it for the first time ??? and that's after you have managed to get round/over/sky rocket the drains ???

 

[Squeak]

I’m going to be bold here and maybe mention the elephant in the room. I’ve never evented but I’ve walked enough courses at 90 to Int (plus the big ones) with friends, old bosses etc, and can recognise a tough line, good/bad ground, and unfit or poor riding when I see it. So not completely without an eye on the sport from my comfy chair…

This push for good ground, I want to show jump on a surface, I’m withdrawing if it’s a mm too firm, omg there’s a hill, can’t possibly gallop up and down that etc - the sanitisation of the sport if you will, is doing far more damage. Ie BE’s own members are pushing it in a direction away from what @RachelFerd (and others) need and want

Is it a lack of education? Oh well I want to sj on a surface, when actually jumping off decent grass cover/parkland gives you a better feel, convenience, lack of fitness, not willing cough not able cough to ride what’s in front of you (remember the days pre course walk apps and photos?), limited experience of rainy days etc (I won’t go on…), portable courses (see all the comments from the pros over the last year)…

So is the search for the perfect event killing off the sport?

I think it might be.

Or has the sport just changed so much in becoming so technical that you can't afford to just ride what's in front of you anymore? It's already been discussed that the novice tracks today are a different ask to what it used to be so I'm not sure we're really comparing apples with apples when looking at how people rode and what they expected previously to what people do today.

It takes a lot more knowledge and skill to ride a technical course than to gallop around a big bold flowing track. Today the saying if in doubt kick on almost doesn't work as you'd have overshot the line or end up on a wrong distance through a combination.

Eta I think there's also an element of more veterinary knowledge and the damage of bad ground etc. Not always a good thing - look at the reduction of the belief in being serviceably sound rather than aiming for perfection.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Eland is undulating, up to height, with technical challenges and often with hard ground. It’s always full. Not really sure what they are doing right but not everyone wants a flat field and 20 straight forward fences. SJ is on a surface though.

The issue of ground is problematic though. Having retired Amber, the thought of another breaking is awful. I take Lottie’s fitness/conditioning programme feet seriously but I still wouldn’t want to risk her on very hard ground.

 

[Squeak]

Out of interest does anyone know why people chose to go to Kelsall instead of Cholomondley?

It seems a very interesting case study as you would have thought people would have preferred to go to the one of parkland events rather than an equestrian centre one.

 

[RachelFerd]

Eland is undulating, up to height, with technical challenges and often with hard ground. It’s always full. Not really sure what they are doing right but not everyone wants a flat field and 20 straight forward fences. SJ is on a surface though.

The issue of ground is problematic though. Having retired Amber, the thought of another breaking is awful. I take Lottie’s fitness/conditioning programme feet seriously but I still wouldn’t want to risk her on very hard ground.

The problem with Eland for me, is that the questions don't change from year to year. Its pretty much exactly the same every time. I don't think the novice course is very educational. The 90 and 100 tracks are nice - the 90 can be testing, the 100 is extremely straightforward. The ground is often firm (it is on clay - miracles aren't possible). I prefer SJ on grass so generally don't end up going.

 

[RachelFerd]

Out of interest does anyone know why people chose to go to Kelsall instead of Cholomondley?

It seems a very interesting case study as you would have thought people would have preferred to go to the one of parkland events rather than an equestrian centre one.

Out of interest does anyone know why people chose to go to Kelsall instead of Cholomondley?

It seems a very interesting case study as you would have thought people would have preferred to go to the one of parkland events rather than an equestrian centre one.

Kelsall has never run an unaff ODE before so a bit of excitement from those that refuse to run BE but want to have a go at riding around it. They opened entries very early and stated it would be first come first served and they're also running a 70. Cholmondeley never even got to the point of opening their entries - but Kelsall already has 1 day+ of entries (so that's 250+ I guess). I suspect Kelsall has mainly attracted an audience of people who haven't got much eventing experience and are trying it out. Possibly have done the Kelsall arena eventing stuff and are comfortable with the venue and know what sort of jumps there will be. Kelsall has hilly terrain so its not a flat field of portables though. I'd be interested in what the entry split is... I am guessing it will heavily weight towards 70 and 80 rather than 90 and 100 entries.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I've only done the 90 at Eland - interesting that you tnink it's a straightforward 100.....

In answer to Squeak's question - my friends are not doing Kelsall the day it clashes. I like Kelsall but I was planning to do Cholmondely if Stafford went well as it's a tougher question so I wanted to see how Stafford went first.

 

[Squeak]

That sounds potentially like completely different audiences for the two events from what you've both said? If it's people wanting to give eventing a try then they probably wouldn't have gone to Cholmondeley anyway?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

That sounds potentially like completely different audiences for the two events from what you've both said? If it's people wanting to give eventing a try then they probably wouldn't have gone to Cholmondeley anyway?

Especially as Cholmondeley don’t even run an 80. Maybe we are being unfair blaming Kelsall?

 

[RachelFerd]

That sounds potentially like completely different audiences for the two events from what you've both said? If it's people wanting to give eventing a try then they probably wouldn't have gone to Cholmondeley anyway?

The 90/100 entries will be the same audience. And CHolmondeley has also cancelled their unaff the week afterwards - which would be an identical audience.

I've only done the 90 at Eland - interesting that you tnink it's a straightforward 100.....

Yes - it's very, very straightforward. Just checked eventing scores stats and the 100 has a 88.2% clear rate, which is way above average (average usually sits around 80%).

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Well that’s my first 100 sorted….

 

[Squeak]

The 90/100 entries will be the same audience. And CHolmondeley has also cancelled their unaff the week afterwards - which would be an identical audience.

At the risk of being annoying (sorry! not actually meaning to be, I'm genuinely intrigued) I guess this comes back to the previous question though of why people are choosing to go to Kelsall. What you and AE said makes sense for the 80's etc or the people who are there for the novelty but for the 90/ 100 entries who had the choice of either or, it would be really interesting to know why they chose Kelsall.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Out of interest does anyone know why people chose to go to Kelsall instead of Cholomondley?

It seems a very interesting case study as you would have thought people would have preferred to go to the one of parkland events rather than an equestrian centre one.

Kelsall unaff entry fee £70. Dressage and SJ are both on a surface, with the SJ being indoors. Accredited course builders for SJ and CC.

Classes 70cm, 80cm, 90cm, 100cm.

Prize Money 1st = £40 | 2nd = £30 | 3rd = £20 | 4th = £15 | 5th = £10 | 6th – 10th = £5 | Prize money is paid for 1 in 5 starters.

Kelsall is a very good venue. But Cholmondeley BE and unaff is also a superb all grass parkland venue. They used to hold the Pony Club championships there.

 

[ycbm]

Kelsall has never run an unaff ODE before so a bit of excitement from those that refuse to run BE but want to have a go at riding around it.

I'm pretty sure that Kelsall has always opened the course for anyone to ride round it non competitively on the days following BE events. Maybe the success of that showed them what demand there might be for an UA competition.
.

 

[spacefaer]

As a side note (and something I've posted before usually in a nostalgic discussion about eventing) a lot of the "lovely parkland events" were lost when the National Trust pulled out.

 

[RachelFerd]

I'm pretty sure that Kelsall has always opened the course for anyone to ride round it non competitively on the days following BE events. Maybe the success of that showed them what demand there might be for an UA competition.
.

It's never that noticeably busy when they open up the course. They also close off any fences with frangibles and take out everything that doesn't have a groundline once flowers and decoration have been taken away. So still a 'unique' experience to ride around it competitively.

I've always really liked it as a venue. Until this spring event, where the lack of ground prep really surprised me given that it was running FEI classes. And their calendar for events in the arenas seems to be shifting away from higher level stuff into offering lots of 'mini' SJ etc. which I suppose just reflects the market. But as previous @palo1 post notes - this seems to be a general weird pattern of ever smaller events becoming popular. So increasingly it isn't providing what I want - which I suppose just reflects I don't want what everyone else wants.

 

[humblepie]

I haven't ever really evented other than show jumping my way round a few pony club teams pretending to event, but I have groomed for a friend and for an Olympic rider, and the lovely locations were part of it - I think it would be a shame if it ends with the majority of competitions at centres with cross country courses. I was only thinking earlier that Hickstead altered one of its lovely grass arenas that had permanent working hunter fences into an all weather and that lost some of the allure - it could be anywhere now. Its a fabulous arena but not Hickstead if you know what I mean. One lovely old fashioned grass ring remains again with permanent working hunter fences (as well as of course the international arena being grass) and I hope they are able to keep that.

 

[ycbm]

I think it would be a shame if it ends with the majority of competitions at centres with cross country courses

That's already the situation, I think.
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