So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[humblepie]

That's already the situation, I think.
.

I am not up to date but thinking about where friends who event go, yes that is the case. It a shame as some of the old country estate ones would sell themselves as nice day out for people to go and visit even if not that horse orientated.

 

[ycbm]

why does a child choose to start a sport without there being the dream of being able to do it at the top levels??

In addition to my previous answer to this question, I think you are mistaking wanting to try a sport because you've seen top people doing it on telly with thinking that you are ever going to want, or be able, to do it at that level yourself. I was, for example, inspired to show jump by Paddy McMahon/Pennwood Forge Mill, Harvey Smith/Mattie Brown et al on BBC 1 every night for a week at HOYS. But never once did I ever aspire to show jump at BSJA, never mind to ride Grade A GP horse.
.

 

[palo1]

Or has the sport just changed so much in becoming so technical that you can't afford to just ride what's in front of you anymore? It's already been discussed that the novice tracks today are a different ask to what it used to be so I'm not sure we're really comparing apples with apples when looking at how people rode and what they expected previously to what people do today.

It takes a lot more knowledge and skill to ride a technical course than to gallop around a big bold flowing track. Today the saying if in doubt kick on almost doesn't work as you'd have overshot the line or end up on a wrong distance through a combination.

Eta I think there's also an element of more veterinary knowledge and the damage of bad ground etc. Not always a good thing - look at the reduction of the belief in being serviceably sound rather than aiming for perfection.

This kind of reflects what I wonder (from an ignorant standpoint). The 'old fashioned' courses needed courage, confidence and a degree of faith that partnerships would come home safely because they were up to the questions asked. A lot more eventing skill was developed through hunting so grass, poor conditions, 'winging it' and a kick on attitude were not inappropriate in relation to what was needed on the xc field. The technicality of courses now seems (from an outsider's point of view) to need different skills and I believe that as we have become far more H&S oriented (which is a good thing) the old fashioned skills and approaches may be less useful. Horses and riders did used to get injured eventing and ideally you would try to avoid too much of that!!

At the same time that H&S 'stuff' has definitely impacted on our wider horse culture with far more fearful riders continuing to want to do stuff. So there will be someone who offers what they want! I suspect that in the bad old days, if you were frightened you generally didn't compete or gave up riding; maybe through shame or possibly because it was just impossible to continue. Now, fear is not only openly acknowledged -which is a good thing but it has, in my view wrongly, been legitimised. There are all manner of clinics 'xc for the terrified etc'. I know it will be unpopular to say this but fear (and I am not talking nerves a la Piggy French) has no real place in horsemanship. Yet we seem to be in a place where we are encouraging people to aspire to what is a serious and courageous endeavour through the provision of really accessible comps and events. That is nice for people but it is possibly a bit misleading and likely to lead to disappointment as it proves impossible to move up the levels with that mindset and skillset. Sorry, I am not articulating this very well or clearly but I see in friends and others levels of anxiety about things we used to take for granted, which cannot contribute toward some of the things those same people aspire to.

I do think too that injury to horses through increasingly difficult/technical work makes us all more cautious and that is right and proper for our horse's sake but it can feel a bit tail wagging the dog...Would it be really wrong/pointless to return to less technical stuff I wonder? Whatever the case, eventing now bears only a small resemblance to what it did. That doesn't matter as long as competitors and organisers are all on the same bus, which they are not currently!

 

[palo1]

Not sure why I am so interested in this thread but the experience I had a couple of weeks ago sort of illuminates what I am trying to say above (and then I will go away lol). I signed up for a xc clinic with a BE coach. It was my mare's first experience of any xc fences or environment other than a few little hunt jumps and natural terrain that is very familiar to her. It was all about having a bit of fun tbh. We were in the 70cm class so I expected it to be easy and relaxed. There were 5 of us in that session on a hilly, twisty little course. All on grass but with a bit of surface for t/o and landing. Lots of what seemed nice, inviting and straightforward jumps. Yay!! I have no BE ambitions at all but 3 of the other participants said they wanted to do a bit. 2 horses deffo overweight. Coach started us off with a simple corner on a slight (very slight) downhill. Very clear instructions given and really the jump was below 70cm. Instantly 2 people said they didn't want to jump downhill. Another one said they didn't want to have to jump away from the other horses! One other person utterly failed to get their horse out of trot. We did all have fun in the end but there was much nervous muttering about things which should be 'ok for anyone wanting to tackle fixed obstacles in any kind of competitive situation. Coach offered the chance to try some of the 80's where appropriate - none of which were anything other than straightforward. No-one seemed to want to test themselves in spite of the coach giving us a great session with helpful and effective advice that moved everyone on. I was delighted with the clinic and really want to arrange another one with a bit more challenge.

It was kind of surprising and disappointing. I could see that everyone there had aspirations (including me) but there was also some not such good stuff in evidence and I really wondered how on earth some of the riders/partnerships were going to bridge the gulf between where they seemed to be at and where they had said they wanted to get to. I know that possibly they will head for an unaff comp at a reasonably local venue on flat ground at 60cm. But how will that help them to get to BE? It is a certain lack of preparedness and of real confidence and skill that makes people want to take the easiest possible and 'safest' option I suppose. Each to their own plan as long as it doesn't kill the opportunities that we want I guess.

 

[RachelFerd]

Not sure why I am so interested in this thread but the experience I had a couple of weeks ago sort of illuminates what I am trying to say above (and then I will go away lol). I signed up for a xc clinic with a BE coach. It was my mare's first experience of any xc fences or environment other than a few little hunt jumps and natural terrain that is very familiar to her. It was all about having a bit of fun tbh. We were in the 70cm class so I expected it to be easy and relaxed. There were 5 of us in that session on a hilly, twisty little course. All on grass but with a bit of surface for t/o and landing. Lots of what seemed nice, inviting and straightforward jumps. Yay!! I have no BE ambitions at all but 3 of the other participants said they wanted to do a bit. 2 horses deffo overweight. Coach started us off with a simple corner on a slight (very slight) downhill. Very clear instructions given and really the jump was below 70cm. Instantly 2 people said they didn't want to jump downhill. Another one said they didn't want to have to jump away from the other horses! One other person utterly failed to get their horse out of trot. We did all have fun in the end but there was much nervous muttering about things which should be 'ok for anyone wanting to tackle fixed obstacles in any kind of competitive situation. Coach offered the chance to try some of the 80's where appropriate - none of which were anything other than straightforward. No-one seemed to want to test themselves in spite of the coach giving us a great session with helpful and effective advice that moved everyone on. I was delighted with the clinic and really want to arrange another one with a bit more challenge.

It was kind of surprising and disappointing. I could see that everyone there had aspirations (including me) but there was also some not such good stuff in evidence and I really wondered how on earth some of the riders/partnerships were going to bridge the gulf between where they seemed to be at and where they had said they wanted to get to. I know that possibly they will head for an unaff comp at a reasonably local venue on flat ground at 60cm. But how will that help them to get to BE? It is a certain lack of preparedness and of real confidence and skill that makes people want to take the easiest possible and 'safest' option I suppose. Each to their own plan as long as it doesn't kill the opportunities that we want I guess.

To be fair the thread has morphed into many topics over its 17 pages, as is perhaps an interesting 'state of the nation' comment on what we do with our horses now!

Your XC clinic experience sounds very typical for the level. Although does remind me of a fantastic Josephine Pullein Thompson book from the 1970s where the failing pony club kids get a new instructor who helps them to build a XC training course using the natural features, and they all start complaining about having to jump downhill, but the fantastic coach manages to talk them around - and low and behold the kids get so good after a summer of learning that they win the PC challenge competition. I digress, but I think it highlights that these issues aren't totally new!!

What does seem to be happening though, as more mini stuff gets put on the calendar, is that people's focus quickly shifts to competing at a low level, rather than training more and starting competing at a slightly higher level. And whilst that's not intrinsically wrong, I find it a bit strange. Any moderately athletic horse or pony will find BE90s to be entirely within their comfort zone, if trained correctly. So why are people so keen to get out and do a 50cm hunter trial at Eland? Why not do another 10 XC training sessions and clinics and then come out at a level which you've trained and prepared for?? It's not wrong, but I don't understand the mindset.

Although, if this threads taught me anything, its that my mindset might be weirder than I thought it was.

 

[HashRouge]

Not sure why I am so interested in this thread but the experience I had a couple of weeks ago sort of illuminates what I am trying to say above (and then I will go away lol). I signed up for a xc clinic with a BE coach. It was my mare's first experience of any xc fences or environment other than a few little hunt jumps and natural terrain that is very familiar to her. It was all about having a bit of fun tbh. We were in the 70cm class so I expected it to be easy and relaxed. There were 5 of us in that session on a hilly, twisty little course. All on grass but with a bit of surface for t/o and landing. Lots of what seemed nice, inviting and straightforward jumps. Yay!! I have no BE ambitions at all but 3 of the other participants said they wanted to do a bit. 2 horses deffo overweight. Coach started us off with a simple corner on a slight (very slight) downhill. Very clear instructions given and really the jump was below 70cm. Instantly 2 people said they didn't want to jump downhill. Another one said they didn't want to have to jump away from the other horses! One other person utterly failed to get their horse out of trot. We did all have fun in the end but there was much nervous muttering about things which should be 'ok for anyone wanting to tackle fixed obstacles in any kind of competitive situation. Coach offered the chance to try some of the 80's where appropriate - none of which were anything other than straightforward. No-one seemed to want to test themselves in spite of the coach giving us a great session with helpful and effective advice that moved everyone on. I was delighted with the clinic and really want to arrange another one with a bit more challenge.

It was kind of surprising and disappointing. I could see that everyone there had aspirations (including me) but there was also some not such good stuff in evidence and I really wondered how on earth some of the riders/partnerships were going to bridge the gulf between where they seemed to be at and where they had said they wanted to get to. I know that possibly they will head for an unaff comp at a reasonably local venue on flat ground at 60cm. But how will that help them to get to BE? It is a certain lack of preparedness and of real confidence and skill that makes people want to take the easiest possible and 'safest' option I suppose. Each to their own plan as long as it doesn't kill the opportunities that we want I guess.

I find this a bit of an odd post. Those other riders were clearly on their own training journey and will get to BE (or not!) in their own time. At least they were at a clinic, receiving training and trying to learn. Maybe getting to BE is a completely unrealistic dream for any of them, but I don't really see why that is an issue. We certainly can't blame then for the death of BE...

 

[HashRouge]

What does seem to be happening though, as more mini stuff gets put on the calendar, is that people's focus quickly shifts to competing at a low level, rather than training more and starting competing at a slightly higher level. And whilst that's not intrinsically wrong, I find it a bit strange. Any moderately athletic horse or pony will find BE90s to be entirely within their comfort zone, if trained correctly. So why are people so keen to get out and do a 50cm hunter trial at Eland? Why not do another 10 XC training sessions and clinics and then come out at a level which you've trained and prepared for?? It's not wrong, but I don't understand the mindset.

Although, if this threads taught me anything, its that my mindset might be weirder than I thought it was.

This is like saying you don't understand why anyone plays in a kickabout football league rather than training harder and making their debut in the National League. They go out and do it because they find it fun, which is exactly why (I imagine) plenty of people want to go and do the 50cm hunter trial.

Either way, having a 50cm hunter trial is not going to stop people moving up the levels. Either, the people who compete in the 50cm hunter trial will be people who would never go out and do a BE90 anyway and simply wouldn't compete if there weren't easy options available, or they will be people having a go at their first event(s), who will then get the bug, keep improving, and move up the levels. Both seem like perfectly understandable mindsets to me.

 

[palo1]

I find this a bit of an odd post. Those other riders were clearly on their own training journey and will get to BE (or not!) in their own time. At least they were at a clinic, receiving training and trying to learn. Maybe getting to BE is a completely unrealistic dream for any of them, but I don't really see why that is an issue. We certainly can't blame then for the death of BE...

I didn't mean it to sound in any way disparaging or to criticise the way that people choose to train at all. I too am training at that level in my own way and I definitely agree that it is great to get training in and we were all investing in that. It was a fun and happy morning. I was just surprised by some things and I think it gave me pause to think about training/competition etc. I can see that because it is possible to go and do a 60cm comp on a prepared, flat course that would be appealing; at least you get to go to that comp and possibly come home with a rosette rather than perhaps have to spend more money training so that you can get to a BE comp that is more expensive and potentially more challenging. I dunno, I am out of the loop! It was just very different to what I expected - not having attended any form of xc training for several years lol and it didn't/doesn't reflect my own mindset which would have me frustratedly bashing away at training until I felt 'ready' for moving 'up'. I think it may be that I am a bit older (early 50s) and find the idea of a competition at the level we were training at a bit odd!! As I say, not a competitor, nor in the loop.

 

[palo1]

This is like saying you don't understand why anyone plays in a kickabout football league rather than training harder and making their debut in the National League. They go out and do it because they find it fun, which is exactly why (I imagine) plenty of people want to go and do the 50cm hunter trial.

Either way, having a 50cm hunter trial is not going to stop people moving up the levels. Either, the people who compete in the 50cm hunter trial will be people who would never go out and do a BE90 anyway and simply wouldn't compete if there weren't easy options available, or they will be people having a go at their first event(s), who will then get the bug, keep improving, and move up the levels. Both seem like perfectly understandable mindsets to me.

There should be room for everyone of course and no-one should feel wrong for following their own journey but currently BE vs Unaff makes people feel like there is an issue with both ends of the spectrum - I think?

 

[palo1]

This is like saying you don't understand why anyone plays in a kickabout football league rather than training harder and making their debut in the National League. They go out and do it because they find it fun, which is exactly why (I imagine) plenty of people want to go and do the 50cm hunter trial.

Have you witnessed the level of competition and ambition at kickabout football leagues lol???

 

[teapot]

I find this a bit of an odd post. Those other riders were clearly on their own training journey and will get to BE (or not!) in their own time. At least they were at a clinic, receiving training and trying to learn. Maybe getting to BE is a completely unrealistic dream for any of them, but I don't really see why that is an issue. We certainly can't blame then for the death of BE...

It’s a reflection of perhaps wider attitudes which are infiltrating the sport and backs up my point that it’s all getting a bit sanitised.

As I say the continued quest to find the perfect event or schooling clinic is going to turn BE into glorified arena eventing if people aren’t careful

 

[teapot]

Or has the sport just changed so much in becoming so technical that you can't afford to just ride what's in front of you anymore? It's already been discussed that the novice tracks today are a different ask to what it used to be so I'm not sure we're really comparing apples with apples when looking at how people rode and what they expected previously to what people do today.

It takes a lot more knowledge and skill to ride a technical course than to gallop around a big bold flowing track. Today the saying if in doubt kick on almost doesn't work as you'd have overshot the line or end up on a wrong distance through a combination.

Eta I think there's also an element of more veterinary knowledge and the damage of bad ground etc. Not always a good thing - look at the reduction of the belief in being serviceably sound rather than aiming for perfection.

Yet all the pros are saying the lower levels aren’t good enough prep for the higher ones.

Also you can set up skinny after skinny after skinny on increasingly difficult lines in an arena, you can’t recreate some of the bigger bolder fences at home. So are people actually riding with more knowledge, experience and feel, OR do they look as though they are yet suddenly become actually unstuck if a distance isn’t exactly bang on, or the ground moves underneath them, or the dip in ground line makes the horse question…

Hard to know when so many are choosing to compete over manicured courses ?

Posted just as Lucinda Green’s rider responsibilities checklist arrived in my inbox. Timely.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Isn;t that a Covid thing though? A fully up to height and technicality season after 2 years with inadequate opportunities.They have made A Levels easier because kids literally werent educated. They should perhaps have done the same for the intl events.

Re clinics scaring people with challenges that are well within entry level BE, you could he descrobing me! Cluelessness has really summed up my entire horsey career thus far! So when I entered Eland 70cm because a friend persuaded me 'it would be fun' I expected flat terrain and small fences. Like the 70cm portable fences I was jumping on the field at the yard.

When I walked the course I nearly died. And was convicned I was going to when I tried to jump it. Cantering downhill was an alient concept, never mind JUMPING downhill. I trotted all the down hill sections. But as someone said above - i was hooked after that. And decided I better find out what it involved and learn to ride the way I needed to be able to.

If it had not been for 70cm unaff I am not sure I would ever have dared to affliiate though. Maybe an 80 eventually but I can't imagine ever starting at 90.

 

[spacefaer]

So we think that people are using lower level/smaller competitions as training, rather than going for training clinics etc? It's sometimes easier to enter a competition (BE excluded AE ? ) than it is to find appropriate level training. And in going for training, you set yourself up for personal criticism, whereas no one comments on your efforts/successes/ failures at a competition?

 

[spacefaer]

On another side note I'm an old school eventer - peaked at (old) 2* in the 90s. I've jumped Adv and done roads and tracks in3DEs - I don't remember ever withdrawing because of the ground... We'd put bigger/smaller studs in and ride appropriately - slower if it was hard or bottomless for instance, but we did just kick on.
I never did a tendon or had a horse injured eventing either. (Me on the other hand ..... Still limping ??)

 

[RachelFerd]

So we think that people are using lower level/smaller competitions as training, rather than going for training clinics etc? It's sometimes easier to enter a competition (BE excluded AE ? ) than it is to find appropriate level training. And in going for training, you set yourself up for personal criticism, whereas no one comments on your efforts/successes/ failures at a competition?

Definitely. People will maybe do a camp at Somerford, go XC twice while they're there, and then enter the 50cm hunter trial at Eland. That's all fine and dandy, but its not educational really.

Whereas I think I XC schooled the 4yo about 8 times at 4 - mainly bitesize sessions working on different key skills - and didn't compete at all at 4. XC schooled/trained 4 times as a 5yo before going to his first event in April. So 12 XC training sessions (not lots and lots of jumping - bitesized and focussed) and then starting competing when I was happy that all of the XC stepping stone skills were in place. And TBH the process of doing all that training is kind of more fun than the competing, so I'm not sure what the hurry to compete is about?!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I wanted to do a 70 because such a feat seemed superhuman. That was on a previous horse to Amber. Amber and Lottie started at 80 bypassing the 60/70 stage because they were no longer challenging so what was the point? But at the time those events felt bl00dy brilliant! And got me inspired.

I actually agree with both MP who described it as a family and RF who said seeing top riders makes you dream. I love being part of the eventing family and I have big dreams!! I may not get there but the dreams are what keeps me going.

 

[lar]

So do I accept the request to FJ at Kelsall's unaffiliated? #conflicted

 

[Lexi_]

So do I accept the request to FJ at Kelsall's unaffiliated? #conflicted

I have a diary clash for the Sat. Will wait and see if they end up running the Sun, when I was meant to be FJ-ing at Cholmondeley but am obviously now free. I’m tempted to reply and politely point out how much bad feeling they’ve caused with this calendar clash.

I like the team there and it’s our closest event, so I don’t want to stop volunteering for them or get blacklisted or anything. Tricky though! It feels like they might just see the 250+ entries rolling in and feel entirely justified in their decision. And ultimately I don’t think they’re wrong to put on a UA, they’ve just ballsed up the timing.

 

[Roxylola]

I'm on the verge of boycotting kelsall entirely over this. They've at least contributed to total cancellation at cholmondeley both BE and brigante. And although they said they'd run two days if they had entries they've now said Sunday will be a clear round day.
In general I'm pro be and unaff but this is poor

 

[Tiddlypom]

Here's a blast from the past - a RC XC clinic circa 37 years ago, taken by a BHSII.

This was typical of what was available unaff in my area at the time. I was almost certainly the wimpiest rider in my group, but was blessed with a totally genuine horse who would always try his best within his relatively limited scope.

I topped out competitively eventing wise at RC novice level - 2'9". Did I mention that I am a wimp ??

Interestingly, though I can't spot the horse at this clinic, the same trainer bought a horse out of our RC and took him right up through the levels to multiple completions of Badminton and Burghley.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm on the verge of boycotting kelsall entirely over this. They've at least contributed to total cancellation at cholmondeley both BE and brigante. And although they said they'd run two days if they had entries they've now said Sunday will be a clear round day.

It gets murkier. Riders who want to go on the wait list have to pay a non refundable deposit of £5. If enough people go on the wait list, they've now said they will run on Sun too.

Non refundable deposit just to join a wait list? There are some pretty unhappy people on the Kelsall FB page.

 

[Red-1]

I have competed to what is new CCI**, yet am now older and wimpy and pricking my ears up at the prospect of a 50cm hunter trial, if the course is nice (as in inviting and educational). To me, now, that would be a step up from where we are.

I used to teach confidence coaching and found that any step towards your goal is worthwhile and closing the gap between where you are and where you want to be. With my baby horse, we have just done a few XC schooling sessions, and as he isn't the fittest, have mostly done around a dozen fences before calling it a day.

The other day, we did a sj clear round at a show, at 40cm - our frst SJ show. It WAS educational to us. First time in a sj collecting ring, first time leaving a sj collecting ring and going into the main ring, first time jumping 11 fences straight, first time with the commentator and bell. We achieved. We did firsts and therefore improved our experience and skills. We even trotted a few, as he was feeling green, but came out of the ring a bigger combination. Of course that was worthwhile, for us, even at 40cm.

A 50cm hunter trial would be great. Warm up with others, starting box, strings and tannoy, a full course, cantering away from others, uphill, downhill, variety of fences one after the other, chance to get into a rhythm, yet small enough to trot to anything that causes a question in the horse. Wind in your hair and a social day out to boot. What's not to like?

Every small step is a step closer to my goal. Yes, YOU may make bigger steps and get there quicker. But, I am happy that my horse and I are doing our thing, in our time, getting there with miles of smiles on the way.

At one time I was suspicious of BE90 as it seemed too small. Now, it is something I aspire to. I will use smaller courses as a stepping stone, yes even 40cm or 50cm, and I'm not a novice. Everyone has different aspirations, no one's aspirations are any less important than others'.

 

[RachelFerd]

It gets murkier. Riders who want to go on the wait list have to pay a non refundable deposit of £5. If enough people go on the wait list, they've now said they will run on Sun too.

Non refundable deposit just to join a wait list? There are some pretty unhappy people on the Kelsall FB page.

Yep. Welcome to the future of unaff eventing, where the competitions set whatever unreasonable rules they want. And we will have to lump it, as no overseeing body to keep it fair.

 

[palo1]

I have competed to what is new CCI**, yet am now older and wimpy and pricking my ears up at the prospect of a 50cm hunter trial, if the course is nice (as in inviting and educational). To me, now, that would be a step up from where we are.

I used to teach confidence coaching and found that any step towards your goal is worthwhile and closing the gap between where you are and where you want to be. With my baby horse, we have just done a few XC schooling sessions, and as he isn't the fittest, have mostly done around a dozen fences before calling it a day.

The other day, we did a sj clear round at a show, at 40cm - our frst SJ show. It WAS educational to us. First time in a sj collecting ring, first time leaving a sj collecting ring and going into the main ring, first time jumping 11 fences straight, first time with the commentator and bell. We achieved. We did firsts and therefore improved our experience and skills. We even trotted a few, as he was feeling green, but came out of the ring a bigger combination. Of course that was worthwhile, for us, even at 40cm.

A 50cm hunter trial would be great. Warm up with others, starting box, strings and tannoy, a full course, cantering away from others, uphill, downhill, variety of fences one after the other, chance to get into a rhythm, yet small enough to trot to anything that causes a question in the horse. Wind in your hair and a social day out to boot. What's not to like?

Every small step is a step closer to my goal. Yes, YOU may make bigger steps and get there quicker. But, I am happy that my horse and I are doing our thing, in our time, getting there with miles of smiles on the way.

At one time I was suspicious of BE90 as it seemed too small. Now, it is something I aspire to. I will use smaller courses as a stepping stone, yes even 40cm or 50cm, and I'm not a novice. Everyone has different aspirations, no one's aspirations are any less important than others'.

I totally get this and it is, of course a really good approach for a young/inexperienced horse. No one needs to feel like they have to train or compete at any particular level; I think there should be something for everyone. The issue is, potentially, that unaffiliated comps attract so many people that the formal structure of eventing in the UK begins to fall apart; that will impact on everyone. It is absolutely indicative of problems within the affiliated structure of course and not necessarily the responsibility of individual riders but I understand why those with BE aspirations are frustrated.

 

[ycbm]

Yep. Welcome to the future of unaff eventing, where the competitions set whatever unreasonable rules they want. And we will have to lump it, as no overseeing body to keep it fair.

There's nothing unreasonable, or unfair, about a clear rule, clearly communicated, which people can either accept or reject as they choose.

I completely understand a non refundable fiver, it's a tiny amount of money, in context, but just enough to make people only go on the wait list if they really intend to turn up.
.

 

[milliepops]

Money for old rope if they don't make the extra space available to accommodate people off the wait list tho. Taking a payment is justifiable if you want committed people but you shouldn't keep it if they don't get to compete imo

 

[Roxylola]

There's nothing unreasonable, or unfair, about a clear rule, clearly communicated, which people can either accept or reject as they choose.

I completely understand a non refundable fiver, it's a tiny amount of money, in context, but just enough to make people only go on the wait list if they really intend to turn up.
.

Yes, but then no. Initially they said they'd run both days if there was interest. Then they said ooh book quick it's filling up - 6 weeks beforehand. And btw we are running Sunday as clear round... oh but we'll have a wait list for £5
I'd have no problem with the concept, but they didn't have a clear rule, they've changed the rules to suit themselves

 

[ycbm]

Money for old rope if they don't make the extra space available to accommodate people off the wait list tho. Taking a payment is justifiable if you want committed people but you shouldn't keep it if they don't get to compete imo

I agree with that to an extent, but is that actually what they are doing? Do they not mean "non returnable unless we don't run the second day?" If that's not what they mean, it's still not much more than enough to cover admin costs and a tiny amount of money. If they don't run the second day can you use the fiver against a clear round fee?
.

 

[Patterdale]

Not sure why I am so interested in this thread but the experience I had a couple of weeks ago sort of illuminates what I am trying to say above (and then I will go away lol). I signed up for a xc clinic with a BE coach. It was my mare's first experience of any xc fences or environment other than a few little hunt jumps and natural terrain that is very familiar to her. It was all about having a bit of fun tbh. We were in the 70cm class so I expected it to be easy and relaxed. There were 5 of us in that session on a hilly, twisty little course. All on grass but with a bit of surface for t/o and landing. Lots of what seemed nice, inviting and straightforward jumps. Yay!! I have no BE ambitions at all but 3 of the other participants said they wanted to do a bit. 2 horses deffo overweight. Coach started us off with a simple corner on a slight (very slight) downhill. Very clear instructions given and really the jump was below 70cm. Instantly 2 people said they didn't want to jump downhill. Another one said they didn't want to have to jump away from the other horses! One other person utterly failed to get their horse out of trot. We did all have fun in the end but there was much nervous muttering about things which should be 'ok for anyone wanting to tackle fixed obstacles in any kind of competitive situation. Coach offered the chance to try some of the 80's where appropriate - none of which were anything other than straightforward. No-one seemed to want to test themselves in spite of the coach giving us a great session with helpful and effective advice that moved everyone on. I was delighted with the clinic and really want to arrange another one with a bit more challenge.

It was kind of surprising and disappointing. I could see that everyone there had aspirations (including me) but there was also some not such good stuff in evidence and I really wondered how on earth some of the riders/partnerships were going to bridge the gulf between where they seemed to be at and where they had said they wanted to get to. I know that possibly they will head for an unaff comp at a reasonably local venue on flat ground at 60cm. But how will that help them to get to BE? It is a certain lack of preparedness and of real confidence and skill that makes people want to take the easiest possible and 'safest' option I suppose. Each to their own plan as long as it doesn't kill the opportunities that we want I guess.

I don’t think this post is weird. I think it can be summed up as ‘people are so much wetter than they used to be’ which is very true and a major contributor to many of the problems listed in this thread.

There I said it.

I even turned into a complete wet lettuce myself upon returning to riding after a break, having read all the confidence (sapping) guff going around on social media. Jumping 50cm courses repeatedly to ‘build confidence,’ never going out of my comfort zone etc etc.
It took Lucinda Green saying to me on a clinic ‘why are you here if you just want to trot and jump 60cm? Why do xc at all?’ and I said ‘I do want to canter and jump bigger fences but it’s just my confidence I need to build up,’ and she said ‘everyone gets nervous, it’s not special just bloody well go and do it if you want to do it.’ It’s like something snapped back into place in my brain. Every other trainer had been saying ‘oh yes, just jump twigs until you are no longer scared’ well that’s not going to happen is it!?

I honestly think that social media is conditioning riders to think that being perpetually terrified on a horse, and having endless psychotherapy and confidence coaching in order to be able to trot down a hill is usual. It’s not. Lots of people would do much better just getting a grip, and the confidence coach brigade is in my view a large contributory factor to the dumbing down of the sport. Which is not a good thing.