So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Orangehorse]

That has always been the case, sadly. There was a letter to H & H that pointed out that it was "the also rans" who were financing the sport for the ones at the top. I think that particular letter was from someone who could not get a place in close events as the pros would turn up with a lorry load of horses and she, as a single horse owner with limited time to compete, could not enter where she wanted and nearby.

I think these issues have been resolved to some extent - now they are obviously wanting more entries, but the same thing applies in that it is the many making the few able to continue.

My nearest BE organiser was pointing out her financial concerns, they have to have a minimum number of entries to make running the event break even and it is becoming hard.
They cut their previous two day fixture to one day last year as there weren't enough entries.

 

[claracanter]

Playing devils advocate here. Would it be so bad if BE went back to only running Novice and above and left the grassroots levels for the UA’s? Would that be financially viable? At least they wouldn’t have to pretend they cared about grassroots competitors and the UA’s wouldn’t be compromised.

 

[RachelFerd]

Playing devils advocate here. Would it be so bad if BE went back to only running Novice and above and left the grassroots levels for the UA’s? Would that be financially viable? At least they wouldn’t have to pretend they cared about grassroots competitors and the UA’s wouldn’t be compromised.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm pretty certain that it would cause cost of competing at Novice+ to skyrocket, as the vast majority of riders and horses do not compete above BE100. It would also lead to a greatly reduced and geographically centralised calendar as most of the peripheral events that run Novice alongside grassroots would be completely unsustainable.

Edited to add: and of course, unsustainable peripheral events would most definitely compromise the unaff calendar too in the short term, never mind the longer term damage that would be inflicted on all of the other boring important stuff's funding being cut.

 

[RachelFerd]

Now if this isn't the kind of incentive that we like to see out eventing, I don't know what is....

BEDE have announced a new drinks partner, Hawkstone, and the blurb reads "should things not go to plan and you get eliminated or fall off, I will offer you a free case of beer, cider or vodka to drown your sorrows... simply tag us in a picture or video describing what didn't go to plan" - so there you go, meaningful prizes for eliminations

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Brilliant

 

[ester]

A case of vodka .

I always maintained it was better to find last in the pub quiz as at least then you got a packet of crisps

 

[Squeak]

Now if this isn't the kind of incentive that we like to see out eventing, I don't know what is....

BEDE have announced a new drinks partner, Hawkstone, and the blurb reads "should things not go to plan and you get eliminated or fall off, I will offer you a free case of beer, cider or vodka to drown your sorrows... simply tag us in a picture or video describing what didn't go to plan" - so there you go, meaningful prizes for eliminations

Either they think the courses are going to be really easy this year or they could lose a fortune if they give free drinks every time something goes wrong

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Now if this isn't the kind of incentive that we like to see out eventing, I don't know what is....

BEDE have announced a new drinks partner, Hawkstone, and the blurb reads "should things not go to plan and you get eliminated or fall off, I will offer you a free case of beer, cider or vodka to drown your sorrows... simply tag us in a picture or video describing what didn't go to plan" - so there you go, meaningful prizes for eliminations

Well, if its not 1st April, then I'll enter. I used to be quite good at a forward roll off, would get my entry fee back with interest..... and be able to have a full drinks cabinet for the year!
Long time since I evented tho, 86 was my final year finishing with one in pre novice and another at the top end of novice....

 

[Pippity]

Now if this isn't the kind of incentive that we like to see out eventing, I don't know what is....

BEDE have announced a new drinks partner, Hawkstone, and the blurb reads "should things not go to plan and you get eliminated or fall off, I will offer you a free case of beer, cider or vodka to drown your sorrows... simply tag us in a picture or video describing what didn't go to plan" - so there you go, meaningful prizes for eliminations

Considering Blue would be unlikely to even leave the starting box without having a friendly bum to follow, might be worth entering just for the free booze!

 

[Caol Ila]

Now if this isn't the kind of incentive that we like to see out eventing, I don't know what is....

BEDE have announced a new drinks partner, Hawkstone, and the blurb reads "should things not go to plan and you get eliminated or fall off, I will offer you a free case of beer, cider or vodka to drown your sorrows... simply tag us in a picture or video describing what didn't go to plan" - so there you go, meaningful prizes for eliminations

Excellent. Sign me up for BE. Fin would not get to the first fence before having a meltdown, and I really like free booze.

 

[Squeak]

Have seen that Aston le Walls have been awarded an international event - Interesting that they're being allowed it with their UA 'schooling days'...

 

[RachelFerd]

Have seen that Aston le Walls have been awarded an international event - Interesting that they're being allowed it with their UA 'schooling days'...

The schooling days are non-competitive and therefore don't clash with the BE ruling. Nor do they try and compete with the BE offering - schooling days are just prep days for people who are getting horses ready to come out competitively at any level. It can exist symbiotically with the affiliated offering, not try and directly compete. Also reduced elements of welfare, safety and clean sport concerns, since there's no competitive element. Makes total sense to me.

 

[Squeak]

I haven't been to one of the schooling events but are they a proper xc course? If so I do struggle to see the difference between them and UA's in terms of health and safety. There are people who go to the UA's just to complete rather than compete and there's no way you can guarantee that there wont be an accident or drug use etc because it's not a competition.

Tbh to me it feels more like it suits BE's agenda of an event that will hopefully be less appealing to riders than their events and so they're happy to let it continue.

I'm very disillusioned with BE this year so maybe I'm biased.

 

[teapot]

I haven't been to one of the schooling events but are they a proper xc course? If so I do struggle to see the difference between them and UA's in terms of health and safety. There are people who go to the UA's just to complete rather than compete and there's no way you can guarantee that there wont be an accident or drug use etc because it's not a competition.

Tbh to me it feels more like it suits BE's agenda of an event that will hopefully be less appealing to riders than their events and so they're happy to let it continue.

I'm very disillusioned with BE this year so maybe I'm biased.

Looks like it? https://www.horse-events.co.uk/horse-events/aston-le-walls-3-phase-schooling-day-25th-march/

 

[RachelFerd]

I haven't been to one of the schooling events but are they a proper xc course? If so I do struggle to see the difference between them and UA's in terms of health and safety. There are people who go to the UA's just to complete rather than compete and there's no way you can guarantee that there wont be an accident or drug use etc because it's not a competition.

Tbh to me it feels more like it suits BE's agenda of an event that will hopefully be less appealing to riders than their events and so they're happy to let it continue.

I'm very disillusioned with BE this year so maybe I'm biased.

You can't guarantee there will be no accidents, but a couple of points -

1/ no temptation to ride faster/harder around the course in order to produce a competitive time
2/ no temptation to put a horse under pressure to jump a specific fence on the XC course that you're uncertain about or don't think the horse is ready for - because it is 'pick n mix' all the way around
3/ no temptation to medicate horses in order to produce a competitive result - as there is no competition

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I’ve been pretty critical of BE but it seems pretty clear to me that schooling events are not the same as competitive ODEs. The real threat to BE comes from the replica events: a full ODE over the BE course, timed, all fences compulsory, with placings and prizes.

That said I think, AleW getting another event is a bit boring.

 

[Squeak]

I’ve been pretty critical of BE but it seems pretty clear to me that schooling events are not the same as competitive ODEs. The real threat to BE comes from the replica events: a full ODE over the BE course, timed, all fences compulsory, with placings and prizes.

That said I think, AleW getting another event is a bit boring.

That's exactly my point, I probably explained myself badly - I agree a training event isn't a threat to BE, my issue with it is that they said Barbury wasn't allowed to run UA because of health and safety etc which would apply (and possibly more so judging by the fb comments about lack of fence judges etc.) to the training events too. If BE had been open and transparent that they weren't allowing Barbury to run UA because it was a threat to them but they would allow alw's training events because they weren't then I would think that was fair enough.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Oh I get you. Yes I agree. I think the ‘health’n’safety/ horse’n’rider welfare focus is nonsense. I think they should just be transparent about their real agenda: the threat UA replica events pose to BE - and thus to all eventing in the long run. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to be concerned about. And I think people would be more understanding about the decisions they are making if they were upfront about those threats.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Shelford Manor ran a training event. Inappropriate course design imo. 3 log stack in the water in the 90. Which is doubly dangerous because many inexperienced eventers (who this sort of thing should be created for) might not even know that horses can struggle jumping in water, that it changes their balance, that they need a different canter etc. No fence judges either. I wouldn’t do another one.

 

[RachelFerd]

Shelford Manor ran a training event. Inappropriate course design imo. 3 log stack in the water in the 90. Which is doubly dangerous because many inexperienced eventers (who this sort of thing should be created for) might not even know that horses can struggle jumping in water, that it changes their balance, that they need a different canter etc. No fence judges either. I wouldn’t do another one.

On the contrary, my experience at Epworth training day was an absolutely brilliant one for my young horse - perfect experience popping around quietly and able to pick and choose between 80, 90 and 100 as I went, at a *very* steady pace. Would 100% recommend to anyone looking for a first eventing experience.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I might do another somewhere else but I wouldn’t go back to Shelford. It’s a good idea though. Very good format.

 

[RachelFerd]

The Team Chasing rules got updated today - to ensure that riders who have had a fall can no longer get back on and continue. Which is sensible, because concussion is a serious thing.

Anyway, was looking at the rest of rulebook and noted:

"UNAFFILIATED EVENTS No rider may compete in the BTC National Team Chase Championship, who has taken part in an unaffiliated cross country team event during the current season. Events sanctioned by the Governing Body, the British Horse Society, the Riding Clubs and the Pony Club are exempt from this Rule."

http://www.teamchasing.co.uk/images/rules/TeamChaseRules23.pdf

So even in the laissez faire world of Team Chasing, the existence of unaffiliated competition is still considered to be 'a problem'.

 

[Squeak]

That's interesting RF.

I was having a quick look at the events with ballots coming up next week - Eland lodge, oxstalls, larkhill and also Bovington the following week and all look fairly low on entries. It might be that there will be a flood of entries on the ballot date and so it's too early to tell but Waverton House the weekend after for the Cotswold Cup is already waitlisting - Swalcliffe UA the week before still seems to be open but they don't show the entry numbers so hard to know how they're getting on.

 

[RachelFerd]

That's interesting RF.

I was having a quick look at the events with ballots coming up next week - Eland lodge, oxstalls, larkhill and also Bovington the following week and all look fairly low on entries. It might be that there will be a flood of entries on the ballot date and so it's too early to tell but Waverton House the weekend after for the Cotswold Cup is already waitlisting - Swalcliffe UA the week before still seems to be open but they don't show the entry numbers so hard to know how they're getting on.

Oxstalls and Larkhill are georgraphically competing for a similar audience (I used to be S Glos based and we would travel to Larkhill, but Oxstall is much closer) so that will be splitting the entries never mind adding in the Waverton date and Swalcliffe UA dates competing for the same audience. And of course not many GR riders want to compete consecutive weekends, so Bovington playing into competition for the same Larkhill audience. This frustrates me, because it just isn't giving a level playing field to the competitions who are trying to run within the recognised framework.

Not so sure on answer to Eland - maybe the fact it runs so many of its own UA events reduces its own potential audience. But good reminder I need to put my own entry into that!

On the plus side - Norton Disney full to the brim and being allowed to put on an extra day. Not really used for any UA that i'm aware of, and in a part of the country without an UA league running.

 

[ester]

Interesting that they have put the onus on the rider, I've never come across any unaffiliated team chasing.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I have fence judged at Swalcliffe for about 7 years now and the UA events have always been very well attended resulting in long days. No idea on numbers for the April event yet so it will be interesting to see if the trend continues this year. Last year they cancelled their BE event before it went to balloting and I haven’t seen any BE listed this year.

 

[RachelFerd]

Interesting that they have put the onus on the rider, I've never come across any unaffiliated team chasing.

I've seen a bit cropping up here and there - often pitched at smaller than 'normal' novice team chasing. So in all likelihood wont' impact the open and intermediate teamchase riders anyway. But the sight of people haring over <80cm solid jumps in groups does terrify me quite a lot - especially given that these are pitched at more nervous/novice participants.

Also, edited to add, can you imagine the furore if BE did that? However, if you said that you can't ride at Badminton GR/Blenheim GR/Gatcombe Nov/Int champs if you've ridden in an UA event in the past year - that would probably somewhat shake up people's decision making. Is that fair? not sure!

 

[ester]

I'd have enjoyed an 80 team chase as would Frank. Did once enter the novice at pontispool but was rained off and that was probably for the best

 

[TheMule]

Oxstalls and Larkhill are georgraphically competing for a similar audience (I used to be S Glos based and we would travel to Larkhill, but Oxstall is much closer) so that will be splitting the entries never mind adding in the Waverton date and Swalcliffe UA dates competing for the same audience. And of course not many GR riders want to compete consecutive weekends, so Bovington playing into competition for the same Larkhill audience. This frustrates me, because it just isn't giving a level playing field to the competitions who are trying to run within the recognised framework.

Not so sure on answer to Eland - maybe the fact it runs so many of its own UA events reduces its own potential audience. But good reminder I need to put my own entry into that!

On the plus side - Norton Disney full to the brim and being allowed to put on an extra day. Not really used for any UA that i'm aware of, and in a part of the country without an UA league running.

The BE problem in the SW is the ridiculous Portman/ Larkhill clash and now the Bovington/ Oxtsalls clash. That’s 4 events I would have done because they're all within 1 1/2 hours, but I can actually only do 2

 

[LEC]

Even more annoying is Calmsden is mid week so now wondering if I chuck in a Larkhill entry, but I hate wind and rain