So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[dixie]

SW used to be fab when I was eventing.
The venues were lost quite a few years ago, so its nothing new.
Off the top of my head I can think of

Duchy
Stockland Lovell x2
Taunton racecourse (can’t remember name)
Okehampton at Weigersma’s

There’s more but I can’t quite remember the names atm and I see I can no longer access my record online to check.

 

[RachelFerd]

Pontispool was May but they lost it because they pissed Pontispool off about Bloody Bicton - of which there is serious fall out about because they didn’t follow procedure in removing Houghton and putting it correctly out to tender. We have also lost Bicton 90cm+ because of the decision to run internationals only. The affiliated calendar has always been slightly crap and now it’s just plain dire. They want to know why people are running off to do unaff, it’s because it works better for them and the venues are better. Hazleton and Calmsden will be my options. Mark Phillips is building Hazleton so I have no worries about going. Calmsden ran mid week BE which wasn’t going to work for me and another day off work so will go to their unaff instead. I am at RC areas this weekend at Pontispool.

I see pros are still flocking to unaff so BE has a real issue but also appreciate the weather has been an issue.

I don't disagree that all of those things are problems - I just don't see the solution as having some random regional unregulated stuff on the side filling in the gap. I'm glad I'm no longer in the SW because the fractured nature of it all would be driving me mad.

Midweek events are really annoying at grassroots level - it just speaks to an assumption of privilege that people don't have to work/can easily take time off. Aston at least has it right for the may event 3 solid days of novice and intermediate during the week for all of the pros, 2 days of novice and grassroots over the weekend. At least when the pros are eventing during the week, I stand a chance of being able to fit in training with them on the weekends...!

 

[Patterdale]

But it is currently the ONLY solution for people who want to event in those areas.

 

[TheMule]

I don't disagree that all of those things are problems - I just don't see the solution as having some random regional unregulated stuff on the side filling in the gap. I'm glad I'm no longer in the SW because the fractured nature of it all would be driving me mad.

Midweek events are really annoying at grassroots level - it just speaks to an assumption of privilege that people don't have to work/can easily take time off. Aston at least has it right for the may event 3 solid days of novice and intermediate during the week for all of the pros, 2 days of novice and grassroots over the weekend. At least when the pros are eventing during the week, I stand a chance of being able to fit in training with them on the weekends...!

Helen West stated she was going to sort out the calendar. She's from the SW so you'd think it would therefore have a good chance of being set right. It's worse this year than ever before. This isn't the fault of 'random regional unregulated stuff', it's the fault of BE

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I know we have been round the houses on this but I think that BE's strong arm tactics and stripping venues of events and moving dates, irritating organisers, is backfiring. Hopefully they plan to be more collaborative moving forwards. Dealing with the threat from unaff by seeking alliances and by co-operating. Not by trying to sabotage or by punishing venues. The questions about running a series (in association with/alongside) Cotswold Cup is a very positive sign, I think. I hope!

 

[claracanter]

Interestingly, Shelford who used to run a UA the day after their BE at the end of May ,are rebranding it this year as GOBE. It is in the BE calendar as GoBE but when you click on it you get taken to Bede Events and enter through their system, not BE. As it’s a separate day from the other BE classes it won’t get pulled like other GOBE has. Seems a great way to get around the BE rules

 

[RachelFerd]

Interestingly, Shelford who used to run a UA the day after their BE at the end of May ,are rebranding it this year as GOBE. It is in the BE calendar as GoBE but when you click on it you get taken to Bede Events and enter through their system, not BE. As it’s a separate day from the other BE classes it won’t get pulled like other GOBE has. Seems a great way to get around the BE rules

That's not "getting around" - it's "working within" the framework. Which is something that some other events have refused to do, for unclear reasons.

 

[Squeak]

I know we have been round the houses on this but I think that BE's strong arm tactics and stripping venues of events and moving dates, irritating organisers, is backfiring. Hopefully they plan to be more collaborative moving forwards. Dealing with the threat from unaff by seeking alliances and by co-operating. Not by trying to sabotage or by punishing venues. The questions about running a series (in association with/alongside) Cotswold Cup is a very positive sign, I think. I hope!

I completely agree with you on all of this. BE's strong arm/ bullying tactics have been very off putting and it would be good if they instead collaborate and try and find a positive way forward. At the end of the day, I think the majority of people who are competing UA, love the sport of eventing and would prefer to support BE and the sport of eventing if possible, but as per LEC's example, it's just not always been possible and also, you almost get so fed up with BE's attitude that you start to question whether you should be supporting them.

On a different note I think the weather at the start of this year has been a real shame for BE, it's not the start that it needed given everything that's happened over the last couple of years.

 

[teapot]

I don't disagree that all of those things are problems - I just don't see the solution as having some random regional unregulated stuff on the side filling in the gap. I'm glad I'm no longer in the SW because the fractured nature of it all would be driving me mad.

Midweek events are really annoying at grassroots level - it just speaks to an assumption of privilege that people don't have to work/can easily take time off. Aston at least has it right for the may event 3 solid days of novice and intermediate during the week for all of the pros, 2 days of novice and grassroots over the weekend. At least when the pros are eventing during the week, I stand a chance of being able to fit in training with them on the weekends...!

The issue of mid-week anything in the equine industry needs addressing imho. There is a real sense of privilege when it comes to training and clinics, let alone competing!

 

[RachelFerd]

The issue of mid-week anything in the equine industry needs addressing imho. There is a real sense of privilege when it comes to training and clinics, let alone competing!

I just got sent an invite for Keyflow Bridging the Gap Pathway training - which is meant to be an offering for people who aren't in the youth programme to help with the training needs for moving from Nov/2* up to Intermediate. It is, of course, on a Tuesday. [that's not even BE's fault, this isn't a central initiative]

 

[MuddyMonster]

Plenty of people work shifts and/or weekends though & compete or want to train, so surely it's only helpful those people have mid-week options if they can't do weekends? I'm not sure that's due to a sense of privilege

I work Monday-Friday but if there's a clinic, arena hire or competition I really want to do that falls mid-week, if I can I re-arrange stuff to go. Sure, I can't always go and do miss stuff but my friends that work outside the routine Monday-Friday 9-5 miss stuff too if it falls on weekends.

 

[LEC]

I just got sent an invite for Keyflow Bridging the Gap Pathway training - which is meant to be an offering for people who aren't in the youth programme to help with the training needs for moving from Nov/2* up to Intermediate. It is, of course, on a Tuesday. [that's not even BE's fault, this isn't a central initiative]

The barriers in the sport are insane for reasonably well off people so inclusivity for anybody else is impossible. They do what they have always done because at one point it used to work.

 

[DressageCob]

Moreton Morrell has just abandoned their event on 03/05/23. Only a 30% refund is being given for entries. The comments on Facebook are all people saying they can see the appeal of UA now...

 

[Patterdale]

Moreton Morrell has just abandoned their event on 03/05/23. Only a 30% refund is being given for entries. The comments on Facebook are all people saying they can see the appeal of UA now...

Well you can, can’t you?? Keeping 70% of entry fees for an event that hasn’t run is ridiculous.

 

[DressageCob]

Well you can, can’t you?? Keeping 70% of entry fees for an event that hasn’t run is ridiculous.

It is, especially when the event is cancelled so far in advance. Some people were saying it's their 3rd or 4th event cancelled this year, so they must be a couple of hundred down at least if BE/venue are keeping 70% of the entry fee.

 

[TPO]

Daft question...how are they allowed to keep 70%?

 

[RachelFerd]

Daft question...how are they allowed to keep 70%?

This was the removal of abandonment insurance which means that events have either decided to self-insure or not insure. T's and C's for each event have been posted on each page. Members pretty much unanimously voted for the removal of the abandonment insurance premium so that entries were cheaper - I was probably one of a minority that voted to keep the abandonment insurance premium in place. You are entering at your own risk when events have not chosen to publicly state that they have a better refund policy or have insured themselves.

That explains the 'why' they're able to keep up to 70%, but it does not in any way excuse them keeping up to 70% of entries - it's really disgusting behaviour. I've been careful not to enter anywhere that hasn't been offering enhanced refund policy. That said, i'm still about £240 down at the moment, waiting for it to be returned as the process of organisers getting refunds from their insurers individually is much slower than the central BE process used to be.

Weather isn't anyone's fault, but I was pro abandonment premium because it gave me more certainty, and our climate is only going to get less predictable as climate change advances.

 

[LEC]

I am genuinely angry that they have screwed the SW though. We have Nunney and Little Gatcombe on the same weekend. I appreciate LG is doing 80-100 and Nunney is 100+

This was the removal of abandonment insurance which means that events have either decided to self-insure or not insure. T's and C's for each event have been posted on each page. Members pretty much unanimously voted for the removal of the abandonment insurance premium so that entries were cheaper - I was probably one of a minority that voted to keep the abandonment insurance premium in place. You are entering at your own risk when events have not chosen to publicly state that they have a better refund policy or have insured themselves.

That explains the 'why' they're able to keep up to 70%, but it does not in any way excuse them keeping up to 70% of entries - it's really disgusting behaviour. I've been careful not to enter anywhere that hasn't been offering enhanced refund policy. That said, i'm still about £240 down at the moment, waiting for it to be returned as the process of organisers getting refunds from their insurers individually is much slower than the central BE process used to be.

Weather isn't anyone's fault, but I was pro abandonment premium because it gave me more certainty, and our climate is only going to get less predictable as climate change advances.

I guess it’s super annoying when it’s not a greenfield site though with a permanent xc and perm equestrian facilities.

 

[RachelFerd]

I am genuinely angry that they have screwed the SW though. We have Nunney and Little Gatcombe on the same weekend. I appreciate LG is doing 80-100 and Nunney is 100+

I guess it’s super annoying when it’s not a greenfield site though with a permanent xc and perm equestrian facilities.

Oh yep, I do not understand why MM can in any way feel justified in not providing refunds. Their set up should be at the absolutely minimal end of costs compared to many events - and they've got stacks of students to to support with a lot of the work.

Did you see that Nick Gauntlett seems to have had some kind of falling out with the CC organisers, based on some public facebook posts...

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Another venue shooting itself in the foot. Bad feeling from this kind of thing lasts a very long time. People are making some very shortsighted decisions at the moment. On the other hand, there are quite a lot of things that I am liking the sound of. Howden Way is great, the idea of a series is promising. And I saw reference in an article by BE, to a 'failed IT project' recently which I assume refers to the car crash of a website. So hopefully that is being addressed too.

I think they need to reinstate abandonment insurance (silly to ask people in the first place imo- of course you need abandonment insurance in a country like the UK!) Or make it optional perhaps? I'd deffo pay but if you have chosen not to for each event you go for, and a big warning flashes up saying 'if this event is unable to run, you will not be refunded' then people can't really complain. But a decision to get rid of it affects everyone - including all those who would want it and would happily pay for it.

Anyway it's been a very frustrating season all round so far. And yet there is a hose-pipe ban in Devon. Which seems odd! Let's hope for a warm dry Spring/Summer. I've just entered Stafford. Fingers crossed it runs. And I am not ballotted out!

 

[ester]

I was thinking some people must have lost a lot of money so far this year. I did see a post earlier about not being able to tell where a refund had come from as they were waiting for a few.

 

[RachelFerd]

Another venue shooting itself in the foot. Bad feeling from this kind of thing lasts a very long time. People are making some very shortsighted decisions at the moment. On the other hand, there are quite a lot of things that I am liking the sound of. Howden Way is great, the idea of a series is promising. And I saw reference in an article by BE, to a 'failed IT project' recently which I assume refers to the car crash of a website. So hopefully that is being addressed too.

I think they need to reinstate abandonment insurance (silly to ask people in the first place imo- of course you need abandonment insurance in a country like the UK!) Or make it optional perhaps? I'd deffo pay but if you have chosen not to for each event you go for, and a big warning flashes up saying 'if this event is unable to run, you will not be refunded' then people can't really complain. But a decision to get rid of it affects everyone - including all those who would want it and would happily pay for it.

Anyway it's been a very frustrating season all round so far. And yet there is a hose-pipe ban in Devon. Which seems odd! Let's hope for a warm dry Spring/Summer. I've just entered Stafford. Fingers crossed it runs. And I am not ballotted out!

I think 'optional' wasn't a goer because it would be disproportionately expensive for anyone who chose to pay for it compared to those who didn't. And it would make it more expensive for the risky early/late season events, and then no-one would pay for it in the summer. IIRC it was proposed but didn't make any financial sense.

I sort of feel that this endless Spring rain has been sent upon us because of people's rash decision to do away with it.

As it is, it is now shaping my choices - I didn't renew my FEI reg and enter Rockingham 2* because I'm waiting on too many refunds, so I just entered the normal novice instead.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes you’d have to crunch numbers I guess. I’m sure they looked into it x

 

[dixie]

Anyway it's been a very frustrating season all round so far. And yet there is a hose-pipe ban in Devon. Which seems odd!

It’s been a very dry winter in Devon, except for the last 6 weeks where it doesn’t seem to have stopped.
That is on top of a dry warm summer, the the reservoirs are still pretty low.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

That makes sense. Floods or droughts seems to be the weather now.

 

[Cragrat]

Teapot: The issue of mid-week anything in the equine industry needs addressing imho. There is a real sense of privilege when it comes to training and clinics, let alone competing!

My daughter and I both work in the hospitality industry. We both LOVE midweek events/ competitins etc, becuase getting time off at weekends is really hard for us!

 

[teapot]

I was thinking some people must have lost a lot of money so far this year. I did see a post earlier about not being able to tell where a refund had come from as they were waiting for a few.

That or a decent credit card limit...

 

[humblepie]

Not eventing but a lot of our competitions are weekdays - OH alway used to say don't any of these people have jobs (somewhere jokingly I hasten to add) - I would reply that for many competing horses was their job, others wouldn't have jobs and a lot of us use our holidays from work, and "playing ponies" is a very good use of a day off from work. It is very difficult though for anyone who can't be flexible in their days off or have to book a long time in advance but equally so for those who work weekends. I used to work Saturdays and have Wednesdays off and that often worked well back then as could often go show jumping on a Wednesday and whilst there would be lots of professionals out with their younger horses, it was generally quieter than weekends.
That is really bad about the 30% refund for a permanent set up.

 

[Squeak]

Unfortunately I think the 30% refund is just hitting at a very bad time when BE could ill afford bad publicity as to be fair to the event and BE there was full transparency about the policy and a vote re whether to keep the abandonment insurance.

It does seem hard to justify it when it's that far in advance, a permanent site and when UA's either refund fully or retain £25. With so many events having had to cancel it's a lot of money for people to have to accept losing.

 

[MagicMelon]

Well you can, can’t you?? Keeping 70% of entry fees for an event that hasn’t run is ridiculous.

Absolutely crazy, Id be raging! For the true amateur who doesnt have pots of money, thats a real slap in the face. I dont BE these days, no events near me now Burgie (and others in North Scotland have gone) and cant afford it anyway to be honest, especially couldnt afford to lose such a big chunk of entry fee for an event that didnt even run.