So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[LEC]

I had a look the other day as appeared on Insta but didn’t actually get my jumps out last year until 14th May as ground wasn’t good enough and we are wetter this year as we were dryer in Feb but then it was awful in March.
I need to find an event but I have cancelled my original plans of AUW. As I just can’t see it running.

 

[Cragrat]

Does anyone know WHY BE seems to find it hard to offer alternative dates to cancelled events, when apparently there are no other local events which could clash? Is it due to BE officials not being available?

 

[LEC]

Does anyone know WHY BE seems to find it hard to offer alternative dates to cancelled events, when apparently there are no other local events which could clash? Is it due to BE officials not being available?

There is probably Significant amounts of things which need to line up - medical, officials, scorers, the event itself can do the weekend, course designer, sjing designer, dressage judges, no clashes near by with events…..

 

[conniegirl]

There is probably Significant amounts of things which need to line up - medical, officials, scorers, the event itself can do the weekend, course designer, sjing designer, dressage judges, no clashes near by with events…..

But surely the vast majority of those are for the event organisers to sort out and likely most of it can be transferred from the original date that was cancelled

 

[LEC]

But surely the cast majority of those are for the event organisers to sort out and likely most of it can be transferred from the original date that was cancelled

Well not if the medical is already doing a PC event down the road… or BE stewards are covering an event in midlands or your dressage judges have BD booked that week… as judges are booked months in advance

 

[conniegirl]

Well not if the medical is already doing a PC event down the road… or BE stewards are covering an event in midlands or your dressage judges have BD booked that week… as judges are booked months in advance

But surely that is for the venue to sort out not BE.
If the Event are proposing a date then they think they can get judges, stewards and medical for then.

 

[ycbm]

The last season or two smacks of BE trying to control too much. They could set minimum standards under which an event must be run on order to have BE branding, sort out the diary to avoid date clashes, and stand back and let the venues get on with it. It feels like that's what venues want, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening.

I would love to understand how the French competition referred to above can run for €40 entry when BE events need £100.
.

 

[LEC]

I chatted with my pro friend in France and she laughed about an entry that cheap and hasn’t seen one like that for a very long time.

 

[Orangehorse]

To some extent I do agree it's an excuse, but I do think that a lot of these big estates are run to some extent as businesses now- they won't run events that they run at a loss and trash the ground for weeks afterwards. Unfortunately, you need land owners with an interest in horse sport to run these events at big estates.

The change in the way rural payments work has caused huge issues for a lot of landowners.

I also think that if you look at other countries, having as many events (and big events) as GB has had probably isn't sustainable long term.

Oh, I thought that reply had been deleted! However, I think you are right that the days of the landowners running an event just because they liked to are definitely on the wane, and they are having to look to make more money from elsewhere. I'm not sure though that environmental concerns are a reason not to run an event, but more of an excuse to stop running them probably because they don't make enough money for the effort involved.

 

[YourValentine]

Environmental concerns are definitely a valid reason. I love eventing but I completely understand why the NT stopped events.

But, yes money does come into it. The sudden concern is linked to the new format of government grants post Brexit. Farmers are paid for soil health and managing grass to maximise environmental benefits neither of which eventing contribute too.

 

[billylula]

BE have a committee system which makes some really questionable decisions and has favoured venues.

 

[greasedweasel]

Kirriemuir cancelled next weekend (weather)

 

[Squeak]

Do you think that BE should make a decision that there shouldn't be any events in March anymore? There have already been so many cancellations for the last couple of years and it has to be affecting the cost of insurance.

 

[RachelFerd]

Do you think that BE should make a decision that there shouldn't be any events in March anymore? There have already been so many cancellations for the last couple of years and it has to be affecting the cost of insurance.

The start of the season is a little bit forced to start when it does for horses prepping for the spring 5* events. There are a small handful of venues which have a long track record of being fairly likely to cope with a wet spring - Oasby, Poplar, Lincolnshire, Tweseldown. Thoresby also seems to have the ability to run, given that we had a great weekend of sport despite the terrible wet spring.

Im not so sure we need any events running 80/90 or even 100 in march though - perhaps the intro memberships could run April - October (after all, they're already quite a bit cheaper) - if the expectation is that there's no 80/90 eventing then you don't get the constant disappointment. And the calendar can be significantly reduced for march, with the focus being on people prepping for international runs.

But I don't love the elitism that that feels like it introduces

maybe a more flexible calendar in march/April where events only go into the calendar when they're confident that conditions are going to be ok. So potentially some fairly last minute events going in with 1/2/3 weeks notice?

 

[quizzie]

The start of the season is a little bit forced to start when it does for horses prepping for the spring 5* events. There are a small handful of venues which have a long track record of being fairly likely to cope with a wet spring - Oasby, Poplar, Lincolnshire. Thoresby also seems to have the ability to run, given that we had a great weekend of sport despite the terrible wet spring.

Im not so sure we need any events running 80/90 or even 100 in march though - perhaps the intro memberships could run April - October (after all, they're already quite a bit cheaper) - if the expectation is that there's no 80/90 eventing then you don't get the constant disappointment. And the calendar can be significantly reduced for march, with the focus being on people prepping for international runs.

But I don't love the elitism that that feels like it introduces

maybe a more flexible calendar in march/April where events only go into the calendar when they're confident that conditions are going to be ok. So potentially some fairly last minute events going in with 1/2/3 weeks notice?

Do you think that BE should make a decision that there shouldn't be any events in March anymore? There have already been so many cancellations for the last couple of years and it has to be affecting the cost of insurance.

Eventing always used to start last weekend of April at Crookham ( as the Tweseldown site used to be known).....with the spring season running to 1st weekend on June. Then the autumn season started early August, running through to 1st weekend of October.

The numbers competing and class levels held have increased massively of course, but I don't think Badminton has come forward ....or is my memory failing me?!!

 

[ihatework]

Do you think that BE should make a decision that there shouldn't be any events in March anymore? There have already been so many cancellations for the last couple of years and it has to be affecting the cost of insurance.

I’m not sure that should be a BE stance, there are venues that are pretty reliable in the wet weather. But I do think we will naturally loose a lot of early season fixtures and I don’t think we should be trying to replace them unless as sure as can be the replacement will cope.

It’s a shame but both climate is changing as are the economics of running events. We will need to adapt.

What we need BE to do, wherever possible, is to support events who can run and have the motivation to do so - to adequately calendar the event

 

[RachelFerd]

Eventing always used to start last weekend of April at Crookham ( as the Tweseldown site used to be known).....with the spring season running to 1st weekend on June. Then the autumn season started early August, running through to 1st weekend of October.

The numbers competing and class levels held have increased massively of course, but I don't think Badminton has come forward ....or is my memory failing me?!!

No I don't think Badminton has come forwards, but qualification criteria have increased - Gemma Stevens rode Chilli Knight around Thoresby to get a qualifying run at 4*S so that she could run him at Badminton - and that's a horse with a previous 5* win with an experienced rider on board. I think with the increasingly technical demands at Badminton too people probably have expectations of needing more prep runs than they used to. And you've got to build in some contingency within that too knowing that probably at least one event will be victim to the weather. And you don't want to have to run too close to the event itself either.

When I was younger and based in the SW of England, we didn't start eventing until later in March or early April though as it did just tend to be very wet. I accept that I have to travel a long way to get spring runs in from where I am now in Cheshire, as it is also v wet.

 

[DressageCob]

I like the idea of the grassroots season starting later. I expect the problem would be that a lot of venues need the grassroots entries to break even/support the higher level classes. It may not be cost effective to run just the fancy classes.

I'm sure there are other venues which could run earlier in the season (if we have a normal March, I know this year has been particularly wet). Kelsall is sand based and the ground there tends to hold up well, plus they can do the SJ on a surface. Somerford always seems to have nice ground, but they've been ditched by BE. Stafford used to be lovely for an early run, but I think it was HS2 which killed them off.

 

[ester]

The first badminton I camped at with a bunch of hhoers was easter weekend, it was very cold!

and obv badminton grass rooters will want to get a run or 2 in before that. I think I read last week someone was putting on a class option just for them?!

 

[RachelFerd]

I like the idea of the grassroots season starting later. I expect the problem would be that a lot of venues need the grassroots entries to break even/support the higher level classes. It may not be cost effective to run just the fancy classes.

I'm sure there are other venues which could run earlier in the season (if we have a normal March, I know this year has been particularly wet). Kelsall is sand based and the ground there tends to hold up well, plus they can do the SJ on a surface. Somerford always seems to have nice ground, but they've been ditched by BE. Stafford used to be lovely for an early run, but I think it was HS2 which killed them off.

Stafford had a terrible terrible terrible track record of cancelling. Should never have been in the March calendar.

Somerford weren't 'ditched' I think it is quite a lot more complicated than that. But also doesn't have a great record for the early event.

Kelsall does hold up well and does have a strong record of running on the April date, but I don't think would have managed a March date - I'm entered for April and hoping that we get some proper good ground.

 

[RachelFerd]

The first badminton I camped at with a bunch of hhoers was easter weekend, it was very cold!

and obv badminton grass rooters will want to get a run or 2 in before that. I think I read last week someone was putting on a class option just for them?!

was that 2011? Badminton did get pulled forwards for a few years, and subsequently pushed back again. But I think that was also a year with a very late Easter, because Easter is confusing and moves around way too much!

 

[ester]

About then I'd have guessed 2010 - I know I was PhDing at the time (2008-12) but would have fit with a late easter.

I was having a wondering the other day back in the proper olden days (pre boom) was it majority one days? or more 2/3 days, how far would people travel then?

I was just thinking comparing it to driving where you definitely have to do a much >2 hour drive if you want a season but at the equivalent level of BE everything is multi day so people more prepared to travel (obv a lot more niche!)
Also obv certain areas of the country are more resilient to rain but no point running multiples in a similar area in March if most people don't want to travel that way.

 

[RachelFerd]

About then I'd have guessed 2010 - I know I was PhDing at the time (2008-12) but would have fit with a late easter.

I was having a wondering the other day back in the proper olden days (pre boom) was it majority one days? or more 2/3 days, how far would people travel then?

I was just thinking comparing it to driving where you definitely have to do a much >2 hour drive if you want a season but at the equivalent level of BE everything is multi day so people more prepared to travel (obv a lot more niche!)
Also obv certain areas of the country are more resilient to rain but no point running multiples in a similar area in March if most people don't want to travel that way.

I do think BE and organisers missed a trick with East Anglian eventing. I'm sure there could have been a way of having an East Anglian sunshine tour bringing Poplar, Isleham, Great Witchingham together with a central stabling hub and facilities for lots of people to bring lots of horses and stay for month. You could stable everyone at Newmarket racecourse and have use of the grass gallops on the links for fitness. And all of the vets and farriers you could ever need. Would just somehow need a nice big arena putting in somewhere - maybe you could use the NHRM one.

 

[ester]

Isleham did have to cancel their hunter trial on the 24th March so even they struggle this year.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think the future will be in multi-purpose bespoke sites like Aston Le Walls with all weather surface for all 3 elements. Open as a training and competition venue all year round. Somewhere like Somerford could do it it they prepared their XC track like their farm ride. Or re-purposed the farm ride.

The days of events run over amazing country estates are slowly coming to an end - and we can't really blame BE for that. Aristocrats like horses generally, so they had the space & inclincation to support eventing. But the costs are sprialling ever higher, the ground is harder to maintain so even the Great Houses (Gatcombe/Chatsworth, dare I say Badminton!) might meed to start thinking again about whether to continue indefinitely.

Those events are a throwback to a different era really.

 

[ihatework]

I do think BE and organisers missed a trick with East Anglian eventing. I'm sure there could have been a way of having an East Anglian sunshine tour bringing Poplar, Isleham, Great Witchingham together with a central stabling hub and facilities for lots of people to bring lots of horses and stay for month. You could stable everyone at Newmarket racecourse and have use of the grass gallops on the links for fitness. And all of the vets and farriers you could ever need. Would just somehow need a nice big arena putting in somewhere - maybe you could use the NHRM one.

With the additional cost/challenge post brexit of using the EU events for this purpose it possibly has some merit to investigate.
Possibly the ‘dull and dreary but not too boggy’ tour - rather than sunshine tour

I don’t know the events, but if they could run 2 separate, potentially with FEI classes etc. would benefit from Aston like surfaces though.

 

[RachelFerd]

With the additional cost/challenge post brexit of using the EU events for this purpose it possibly has some merit to investigate.
Possibly the ‘dull and dreary but not too boggy’ tour - rather than sunshine tour

I don’t know the events, but if they could run 2 separate, potentially with FEI classes etc. would benefit from Aston like surfaces though.

Isleham and Great Witchingham are both lost to the calendar. But GW is still running unaffiliated and was a good event that used to have bold old-fashioned XC courses that ran at 2* and intermediate as well as the lower levels. Poplar goes to intermediate already and is probably the most reliable ground in the country, but is a ridiculously long drive for most people, being tucked away on furthest reaches of the Suffolk coast. The event relies on grassroots entries to boost numbers, but it is also an important pre Badminton run for lots of pros. Even if you were to run Poplar on two consecutive weekends, boost the second weekend into an international and offer stabling for hundreds of horses, you'd attract a lot more people to do the journey if they could make a double-weekend of it.

You could do the same with Tweseldown to be fair, as they practically already did.

I'm sure I read that back in the distant past that lots of pros would take a bunch of horses up to Scotland for the height of the summer where ground was hard further south, and go and stay and compete in Scotland for July/August.

I'd quite like a future in which I went and stayed away with the horses for a few weeks at at ime, but somewhere with wi-fi facilities so I could continue to WFH when not riding. There's no reason why that couldn't be possible.

 

[ihatework]

RF perfectly do-able, off season Portugal, rent apartment. You sj at Villamoura which is really nicely set up and then mix in the Portuguese spring events up the coast.

 

[RachelFerd]

RF perfectly do-able, off season Portugal, rent apartment. You sj at Villamoura which is really nicely set up and then mix in the Portuguese spring events up the coast.

the catch is I can only WFH from within the UK, sadly

 

[ycbm]

You're talking serious levels of elitism if you only cater for people who have no need to work due to wealth or sponsorship, or earn their money by competing, or have a job that can be done sat in the living of a lorry for several weeks at a time.
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