So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Snowfilly]

Oh now I’d have quite enjoyed this. Dressage bores me to tears so a run round XC and then SJ would have been great. All the fun bits, no circles.

Which is why I never took eventing seriously as a sport and much preferred hunter trials.

I doubt it’s something most BE members would do; they’re serious about the sport as a whole. But for a day out as a non member, I would probably chose this over a full event.

 

[teapot]

Oh now I’d have quite enjoyed this. Dressage bores me to tears so a run round XC and then SJ would have been great. All the fun bits, no circles.

Which is why I never took eventing seriously as a sport and much preferred hunter trials.

I doubt it’s something most BE members would do; they’re serious about the sport as a whole. But for a day out as a non member, I would probably chose this over a full event.

Entry requirements are 'XC + is open to all British Eventing members, including Pay-As-You-Go members, who have completed a standard class at the same level within the past 12 months' so it isn't for the non-members.

From a safety/education point view (and I know 90 isn't 5* but it's not 60 either), is this going to allow, maybe enable is the better word, someone to do one complete BE90, who just about gets through the show jumping, spend the rest of year doing dressage and xc, on a horse that potentially would be stopped from going xc because it's had one too many poles sj? I'll be interested to see the stats in a year's time, if they do record them, of what the xc 'results' are like for those who haven't sjed beforehand.

 

[ycbm]

Entry requirements are 'XC + is open to all British Eventing members, including Pay-As-You-Go members, who have completed a standard class at the same level within the past 12 months' so it isn't for the non-members.

From a safety/education point view (and I know 90 isn't 5* but it's not 60 either), is this going to allow, maybe enable is the better word, someone to do one complete BE90, who just about gets through the show jumping, spend the rest of year doing dressage and xc, on a horse that potentially would be stopped from going xc because it's had one too many poles sj? I'll be interested to see the stats in a year's time, if they do record them, of what the xc 'results' are like for those who haven't sjed beforehand.

There are plenty of hopeless show jumpers (waves ️ ) who can jump fixed fences fine, plenty of horses who tap poles but know far better than to tap telegraph poles, and there are no more H&S risks than a hunter trials and far fewer than team chasing.

Eland and probably others run hunter trials every year over their BE xc course.
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[teapot]

There are plenty of hopeless show jumpers (waves ️ ) who can jump fixed fences fine, plenty of horses who tap poles but know far better than to tap telegraph poles, and there are no more H&S risks than a hunter trials and far fewer than team chasing.

Eland and probably others run hunter trials every year over their BE xc course.
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Oh absolutely but BE has a max number of poles/pens sj rule for good reason. Just interesting timing when a bunch of pros at the FEI eventing forum were talking about standards of riding and the need to pull people up on it, at all levels.

Wonder how popular it will be at 75+% costs of usual entry fee?

 

[ycbm]

Oh absolutely but BE has a max number of poles sj-ing rule for good reason.

Yup. So they don't get sued if someone hurts themselves on the XC.

If there's no show jumping then the responsibility stays exactly where it should be, with the competitor or the guardian of the competitor.
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[ester]

plenty of people head out hunter trialling without ill effect from not doing a SJ course before hand. If they're making a total hash of it they can still be pulled up on the XC

 

[teapot]

plenty of people head out hunter trialling without ill effect from not doing a SJ course before hand. If they're making a total hash of it they can still be pulled up on the XC

No organisational body overseeing or having a duty of care towards its members hunter trialling though.


Sure XC+ will be totally fine, and I hope BE have enough volunteers for the extra days, but as I said in a previous post, I can't help but wonder how it'll fits into the wider sport when some well known pros are wanting and hoping people call out ever declining horsemanship... Take it fence judges will still be able to pull someone up?

 

[ester]

teamchasing does though?

 

[conniegirl]

Hang on. Thats what t thought the dressage was for, to check yoi had sufficient control to go xc

 

[spacefaer]

If there are only 2 out of the 3 phases running then surely the cost should be 66% of the full fee not 75%?
(Early morning maths check here!)

And how is it to be scored? I don't see the pont if it's not going to be competitive.

 

[TheMule]

If there are only 2 out of the 3 phases running then surely the cost should be 66% of the full fee not 75%?
(Early morning maths check here!)

And how is it to be scored? I don't see the pont if it's not going to be competitive.

Xc is the most expensive phase to run so I can understand 75%. The trial won’t be scored but they are aiming to bring a scoring system in- I guess you can only compare Dr + xc people and then SJ + xc people separately. I think it would be good to have a 'no stopwatch' rule and encourage grassroots riders to ride to feel with the best xc score going to a clear closest to the time.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hang on. Thats what t thought the dressage was for, to check you had sufficient control to go xc

I’ve been dressage scribing at BE when an unruly pair cavorted around the arena. The dressage judge reported it in and the combination were scrutinised in their SJ round by an official, with a view to pull them up if necessary.

Pair were found to be fit to progress to the XC. The informal report back to the dressage judge was ‘Once the rider had stopped hanging on to the front end in the dressage the horse was much happier and the pair SJ’d quite creditably’ .

 

[ester]

A friend got pulled up after dressage but that was because she took an ex racer to larkhill as her first BE it improved from there on in

 

[Snowfilly]

I’ve been dressage scribing at BE when an unruly pair cavorted around the arena. The dressage judge reported it in and the combination were scrutinised in their SJ round by an official, with a view to pull them up if necessary.

Pair were found to be fit to progress to the XC. The informal report back to the dressage judge was ‘Once the rider had stopped hanging on to the front end in the dressage the horse was much happier and the pair SJ’d quite creditably’ .

Different sport but I’ve definitely ridden a showing class hanging on for dear life, trying to shut the whole horse down and then let him go ping his way round the showjumping later. We kept all legs on the floor jumping.

 

[TheMule]

A friend got pulled up after dressage but that was because she took an ex racer to larkhill as her first BE it improved from there on in

She's lucky she survived! I've ridden some very hairy tests at Larkhill, not helped by being in a blizzard in April

 

[Zebedee]

I think there's a safety aspect in missing out the SJ - are they going to do away with the CR if a rider scores excess of 24 jumping penalties in the SJ? For me logically there is little point to having this rule (which incidentally I fully support) if there's an option to skip the entire section at the same event.

 

[asmp]

She's lucky she survived! I've ridden some very hairy tests at Larkhill, not helped by being in a blizzard in April

Not a BE event but daughter took her horse to a ODE at Larkhill and was eliminated in the SJ as he froze at the tent pegging competition they were doing next to the SJ. After much persuasion with the officials (it was a class for novice horses), he was allowed to go around the XC.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I think it would be more popular if it was just XC, rather than 2 out of 3 phases. But maybe my brain is just thinking 'well it's a shame not to do the whole thing if you're bothering to do 2 phases'.

 

[TheMule]

I think there's a safety aspect in missing out the SJ - are they going to do away with the CR if a rider scores excess of 24 jumping penalties in the SJ? For me logically there is little point to having this rule (which incidentally I fully support) if there's an option to skip the entire section at the same event.

I'm not sure it’s so relevant at 80/90 level which is what this is running at- anyone can enter that at a local unaff event without the CR rule or go jump that kind of stuff xc schooling. I think the CR rule is really a protective mechanism at the more dangerous level so the sport.

 

[teapot]

Not a BE issue granted but sad to see no more eventing at Haras Du Pin

 

[Goldenstar]

Well it will be a revenue earner and therefore may save some events from disappearing.
I can’t see it ever happening at higher than a 100 .
It would also allow horses starting to get some Xc in as practice before they move on to whole ODE format and that will suit some horses who are great at dressage and SJing but shy XC.
I think in some ways it’s a shame but there’s no point in hanging on to a nostalgic view of what eventing was like because the world has changed.

 

[ycbm]

I think there's a safety aspect in missing out the SJ - are they going to do away with the CR if a rider scores excess of 24 jumping penalties in the SJ? For me logically there is little point to having this rule (which incidentally I fully support) if there's an option to skip the entire section at the same event.

I think the insurers would be extremely unhappy if combinations who had conclusively proved they aren't capable of show jumping were allowed on the cross country.

My feeling is also that people who are unsure of their jumping capabilities will choose poles that fall, and those who choose to skip the show jumping and go straight to cross country are more likely to be competent to do it.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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[RachelFerd]

I don't mind the concept, but I can't see it attracting any entries in it's current non-competitive form.

I think the safety element is covered by horses having to have previously completed a full BE ODE - if I read it correctly?!

 

[LEC]

I don't mind the concept, but I can't see it attracting any entries in it's current non-competitive form.

I think the safety element is covered by horses having to have previously completed a full BE ODE - if I read it correctly?!

Yep correct and I agree. It’s effectively an expensive training outing in its current form but my guess is they have to start somewhere see if it will take off and get feedback from organisers on how easy it is to balance with a regular event. I think it’s a bit niche but it does the job of satisfying lottery funding requirement’s at GR level is my cynical take on it.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

BE80 Championships move to Chillington Hall – British Eventing – News

news.britisheventing.com

Shame to see this as Bramham was such a great venue. Amateur riders had the chance to ride there alongside the international so it made it very special with a course specially built for the 80 champs.

 

[TheMule]

BE80 Championships move to Chillington Hall – British Eventing – News

news.britisheventing.com

Shame to see this as Bramham was such a great venue. Amateur riders had the chance to ride there alongside the international so it made it very special with a course specially built for the 80 champs.

I think this is a massive blow for grassroots sport and will likely lead to a steep drop in BE80 competitions. Bramham was a great championship venue and the change to the qualification was definitely tempting more people in. Chillington is a totally different league, it's like when the grassroots champs used to run at Aston Le Walls….. just not worth doing!

 

[Patterdale]

Absolutely gutted! The whole reason I was re-joining BE this year was the have a go at qualifying for Bramham.

Oh well, I’ll save some money at least

 

[millitiger]

Surely BE could support this at Bramham as a loss leader? At least give it a few years to establish and see what impact it has on BE80 entries.
Assuming the reason Bramham can't run it is financial of course.

I appreciate them chopping and changing things and trying to be agile for the market but we also need stability, particularly for qualifiers and champs that run across 2 seasons.

 

[TheMule]

Surely BE could support this at Bramham as a loss leader? At least give it a few years to establish and see what impact it has on BE80 entries.
Assuming the reason Bramham can't run it is financial of course.

I appreciate them chopping and changing things and trying to be agile for the market but we also need stability, particularly for qualifiers and champs that run across 2 seasons.

Agreed. I'd be pretty annoyed if I had spent a fair whack of time and money qualifying in the belief it would be at Bramham.

 

[Patterdale]

Surely BE could support this at Bramham as a loss leader? At least give it a few years to establish and see what impact it has on BE80 entries.
Assuming the reason Bramham can't run it is financial of course.

I appreciate them chopping and changing things and trying to be agile for the market but we also need stability, particularly for qualifiers and champs that run across 2 seasons.

Yes and especially as they have only just revamped the qualifying process making it much more open now! Really short sighted in my opinion. Bramham was the only reason to do BE80 over unaffiliated.