So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Roxylola]

And it’s a Brigante Cup qualifier this year. Which arguably makes it more attractive unaff than BE.

Think it was last year too.
I think they did alter the course slightly but obviously fences are the same

 

[ihatework]

Well I own rather than ride now, but I love the sport. Having thought about this the primary appeal to me (other than the fact I love the discipline) are the lovely big locations you get to compete.

In years gone by when I was doing lowly 100’s then you could fairly easily access these large parkland / stately homes venues.

These days it’s more limited until you get up the levels. Even then they are dwindling. I wouldn’t be involved in the sport if it were Astons day in day out (sorry Aston, you are incredible supporters of the sport!! We use you a lot for prep). I’m not, as an owner, prepared to pay for mediocre horses competing at run of the mill venues. It costs too much. I am however prepared to do it as a stepping stone to hopefully bigger things.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I know people talk about the glory days and say eventing is boring now but we have competed at some fantastic places over the past few years. Perhaps I don’t know what I’m missing, but it’s still a brilliant sport. And Oasby is oversubscribed and the wait lists are full so people are clearly still getting out.

 

[LEC]

The big issue with wonderful estate properties is that the owner has to have an interest otherwise having BE is just not profitable. My SIL owns Buckminster and you can see what lack of investment has done - it used to be a popular event and now it’s a has been. Having spent a bit of time at Buckminster over the years the parkland is outstanding and it could be wonderful but there is no interest in it particularly. The combination of constant refresh, good ground and bringing in people takes money. Much easier to have a concert, festival or go back to farming it.

 

[millitiger]

I really did want to rejoin BE this season after many years unaffiliated.

3 things now putting me off-
Loss of abandonment insurance. Yes, some events are getting their own, but hard to plan that into the season at the moment.
Complete mess and confusion of Area Festivals to qualify for Grassroots. Current set up is very confusing and means travelling further... mainly though so confusing to work out!
Lastly, you cannot ignore current global situation, spiralling inflation and unknown future on everything linked to oil and grain pricing and availability. I want to build a much bigger buffer than I currently have in my savings pot.

Eventing, particularly affiliated, is going to have to take a back seat.

 

[GinaGeo]

I love Eventing. It’s where my heart lies. Nothing quite compares to the excitement of pulling into a beautiful country park, parking next to an Olympian and galloping across hallowed turf.

We never did BE to any dizzy heights, but did dream of it. I was only able to enjoy it because I was fortunate to have family backing, mum enjoyed the day out and supported my entries through Uni. Dad kept the car and trailer on the road and when we were traveling further, mum used a small inheritance to buy a little lorry. We had a lot of fun, and we aimed for the likes of Cholmondely Castle and Allerton Park. Places you wouldn’t otherwise be able to ride.

It felt special, and I think we still have all the programmes with our name in.


But life moves on. Buying a house at the moment, trying to get another young horse educated. Keep a career going. Maintain a semblance of a social life (aka. Not lose touch with good friends) and see my partner.

I really really want to do BE again. But this year if we can event, it’ll be unaffiliated. I really won’t be able to justify the additional cost of competing BE. I’m not sure I’ll be able to justify Eventing full stop, but might sneak a couple of events through the budget to give me goals. Goals keep me motivated.

 

[RachelFerd]

this. I planned to join this year as I think we should support BE. But the abandonment insurance, the cost of few runs have meant I'm not going to and will go unaffiliated instead. I think the lower levels who prop up the higher levels financially are realising they don't get a good deal and are voting with their feet.

Again - this doesn't really make sense. Removal of abandonment insurance has made each entry 15% cheaper. Many events have now sourced their own insurance - so you're getting a significantly cheaper deal if you enter an event using that.

 

[Michen]

I used to do a couple of BE events a year mixed in with unaff. I'd go BE if it was an event I particularly liked, or worked dates wise.

Won't be bothering now as to do the odd one or two is so expensive under the new system, unless you do 4 plus.

 

[EventingMum]

I think the incentive to move up the levels from grassroots has gone. It used to be if you won or were highly placed (I can't remember the exact rules) you couldn't keep.competing at that level but now you can stay at the lower levels for as long as you like as long as you don't gain points (not foundation points) unless there are open sections. This used to encourage people to move up a level but when that stopped happening many events stopped having higher level classes. In Scotland it became so difficult to compete at Intermediate and above without going south of the border all the time which really added to costs for fuel.

 

[Patterdale]

Again - this doesn't really make sense. Removal of abandonment insurance has made each entry 15% cheaper. Many events have now sourced their own insurance - so you're getting a significantly cheaper deal if you enter an event using that.

Agree - I really don’t understand why so many people are moaning about the abandonment insurance. Everyone was badgering BE to get rid of it to make entries cheaper, so they did and now they’re getting endless stick for it.

I think lots of people get confused about abandonment. It’s actually quite rare. In my previous years of competing I only had events abandon twice.
Lots seem to be confusing abandonment with cancellation.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Agree - I really don’t understand why so many people are moaning about the abandonment insurance. Everyone was badgering BE to get rid of it to make entries cheaper, so they did and now they’re getting endless stick for it.

I think lots of people get confused about abandonment. It’s actually quite rare. In my previous years of competing I only had events abandon twice.
Lots seem to be confusing abandonment with cancellation.

I mostly agree with this. I do think that they’ll have to be careful with which venues run early/late in the season though. which will possibly hit certain areas harder than others as may be less suitable venues/higher risk of abandonment?

I competed (not BE, but full ODE) at Epworth yesterday and the ground was pretty perfect even with the rain we had last week. Plus Dr/SJ are on a surface which is better for those events IMO.

I also saw what Aston did with their abandonment at the weekend (40% refund and chance to do a CT/Arena Eventing style comp) which I would have been happy with as a replacement.

 

[spacefaer]

A lot of the lovely parkland events of yesteryear are owned by the National Trust. Very sadly, events are not sufficiently profitable compared to other, less capital and labour intensive enterprises.

I used to event, back in the day when it was fun. I competed to (the old) 2* and loved the proper long format 3DEs. I also produced horses that went on to 4*.
The sport has changed fundamentally and those currently involved either embrace the changes or go u/a which appears to be more similar to the old days.

Every so often, I get a rush of blood to the head and think I might want to do an event or two on a nice young horse, then I look at the cost and come back down to earth. There's no way i could justify the expense on a single day of competition.

 

[I'm Dun]

Again - this doesn't really make sense. Removal of abandonment insurance has made each entry 15% cheaper. Many events have now sourced their own insurance - so you're getting a significantly cheaper deal if you enter an event using that.

Entry might be cheaper but it wont matter if its abandoned. I've not seen many saying they have sorted insurance but admittedly haven't looked hard as I've had life stuff going on. The cost is a huge factor though. If you only run 3 times its not viable when unaffiliated is just so much cheaper. Might be different if I was any good but I'm just a bog standard middle aged woman with a nice horse who wants to do a few runs a year.

 

[Michen]

I mostly agree with this. I do think that they’ll have to be careful with which venues run early/late in the season though. which will possibly hit certain areas harder than others as may be less suitable venues/higher risk of abandonment?

I competed (not BE, but full ODE) at Epworth yesterday and the ground was pretty perfect even with the rain we had last week. Plus Dr/SJ are on a surface which is better for those events IMO.

I also saw what Aston did with their abandonment at the weekend (40% refund and chance to do a CT/Arena Eventing style comp) which I would have been happy with as a replacement.

Very few places would be able to do what Aston did. They only can because they have so many surfaced arenas.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I think lots of people get confused about abandonment. It’s actually quite rare. In my previous years of competing I only had events abandon twice.
Lots seem to be confusing abandonment with cancellation.

I preferred early season and late season missing out the hard ground in the middle. I’ve had abandonments. I only evented 4/5 times a year when I had Amber to ride. Once after dressage. Once the night before. I’m in the NW. perhaps I’ve just been unlucky. If you run multiple times you’ll end up better off but psychologically the risk of entering what might be your only event with no protection feels difficult. But for me the clincher wasn’t cost but the lack of an interesting series to target which I’m doing with the Brigante Cup this year.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is it abandonment or cancellation if the event is called off before it starts? There's been a few of those here in the last year or two due to waterlogged ground.

Is it abandonment when the event is stopped part way through the day?

 

[Patterdale]

But for me the clincher wasn’t cost but the lack of an interesting series to target which I’m doing with the Brigante Cup this year.

This I totally agree with.

The current grassroots championship system is so confusing, messy and hard to understand that it is completely off-putting.

 

[Ambers Echo]

My ‘night before’ abandonment was the Saturday night after a day of competing on Saturday - they abandoned Sunday. Not sure if it’s the night before anything starts.

 

[Roxylola]

Saying its 15% cheaper is not taking in to account the price rise this year, and the membership changes. In reality, it is a lot more expensive this year for me than last year. I have a competing budget, I understand it's more cost effective to do more but my budget would be gone within 3 events. I've entered 3 BE events, 1 of which abandoned the night before so that's a 33% chance of losing my entry fee. So I can afford 3 entries but may not compete all 3 times and won't get anything back potentially.

 

[TheMule]

I havent really evented much since my last good horse retired and I don’t feel particularly inspired to start up again. Every single venue within 2 hours travelling time of me, bar 1, offers an unaffiliated alternative with the same standard SJ and xc courses, a photographer, a video company filming rounds etc. I'm not ambitious (or brave) anymore so I'll probably be quite happy playing around up to 100 level unaff and then can reassess if I feel a strong desire to go novice.
I'm not good enough on the flat to challenge for a grassroots place but I do like a good double clear!

 

[Red-1]

It is 2014 since I last competed, I have a nice youngster who will probably be ready next spring.

I always intended to do BE, but looking at it as it stands, I may do the unaffiliated. It is simply less bother! I won't have to read so many rules and regs, get registered etc.

I am nearer 60 than 50, my 4 rising 5 horse is not the athletic beast I preferred in my youth, and we just want to have fun. If we do well, I may do a few BE events, but it isn't the be all and end all it was.

I started eventing when Pre Novice was a new thing, and decried as the end of proper eventing. I think it was up to 1.05 then. BE was something to aspire to, people asked if you rode BE, and if you did, it meant something.

I think BE has tried to be all things to all people, and that hasn't worked.

I also think that climate change has made ground conditions less reliable.

Also, no abandonment refund? That doesn't seem like a good plan! It is disappointing enough, without losing all your money too. You hand over your substantial fee, trusting that someone has done their homework/groundwork/prep well enough.

 

[ycbm]

I also think that climate change has made ground conditions less reliable.

It has, but the season is also now very extended. When I was eventing it was very difficult to get any run in March within 2 hours and difficult to get any in October. I think there was one, at Rodbaston. Now the calendar is much more full in March and October and the abandonment insurance has had to be dropped as it got too expensive. I can't help connecting the two a bit.
.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Not being defensive - genuinely curious. I keep reading that BE90 and BE80T is or will be 'the death of eventing'. Why?

The various reasons put forward seem to be:

Lower levels mean that BE doesn't 'mean anything' anymore. But no-one inside the world of eventing is going to be confused about what a Novice 'means' compared with a BE80T and no-one outside of eventing knows what any of it means. Besides which why does anyone care? I find it hard to believe that people spend £XXXXXXXXs on a novice horse plus running costs just so they get to say they have done something 'meaningful'.

Now 'anyone can do it' Again see above. Why does the novice eventer on her talented sport horse care what Joe Bloggs on his hairy cob is doing? But also surely the more accessible the sport is the more people try it, fall in love with it and aspire to do more. I got into eventing via unaff 70s on a fell pony. I wanted more so fell pony was swapped for Amber and I'm hooked.

People don't aspire to move up the levels. So what? Many people don't have the horse power to go higher than BE90 anyway. A BE100/N horse is well into 5 figures. But what is wreing with a thriving grassroots scene? The last season I did was BE90 level on Amber and every event was full and wailisted. Last year Katie did U18s and again every event was full and waitlisted. Thpse classes bring money and people into sport. Why is that bad?

I personally think BE may be struggling because of unaff events providing a much cheaper alternative while offering much the same - or exacty the same event. And while offerng a better competition structure. Plus the cost of living crisis which is no-ones fault. Unaff eventing is very problematic and I am part of that because I have chosen that route myself this season. But it is a no brainer personally - cheaper, better protected and better comp structure. So BE needs to make BE more attractive, not blame riders for opting to do other things.

I am not sure what the answer to that is apart from obviously sorting out the mess that is Badmionton GR and offering more options for those for who Badminiton is unrealistic. Regional leagues etc. But then people think offering too many options is also killing the sport though I am not sure why.

Can someone please explain why attracting more people and making a sport more accessible is killing off the sport? And is there actually any evidence of that?

 

[ycbm]

Can someone please explain why attracting more people and making a sport more accessible is killing off the sport? And is there actually any evidence of that?

As long as you are talking about BE and not eventing in general, you answer your own question here. Eventing as a whole will only die back, hopefully temporarily, because people can't afford to compete at all.

I personally think BE may be struggling because of unaff events providing a much cheaper alternative while offering much the same - or exacty the same event.

BE was always going to lose out to unaffiliated as soon as they removed the rule that said no BE course could be used for any other purpose. And they had to do that to get venues for the lower levels that they wanted because that's where the volume and the money was.

The vast majority of competitors at 80/90/100, ime, aren't trying to qualify for anything. The pros are just trying to make the horse worth more with some reasonable scores and sell it, or take it up another level, and the amateurs just want a great day out with a gallop round the cross country to top it off. The popularity of day tickets proves this, I think.

So if you don't want to qualify, and you can do the same event for a lot less money, why wouldn't you? And that is hitting BE in the pockets that it filled, for a while, by diving down that dark rabbit hole in pursuit of the money that lower level competitions would bring in.
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[ester]

It's interesting because at the time I remember it being thought that bringing in 80 was mostly to bring in more money

 

[Squeak]

I personally think BE may be struggling because of unaff events providing a much cheaper alternative while offering much the same - or exacty the same event. And while offerng a better competition structure. Plus the cost of living crisis which is no-ones fault. Unaff eventing is very problematic and I am part of that because I have chosen that route myself this season. But it is a no brainer personally - cheaper, better protected and better comp structure. So BE needs to make BE more attractive, not blame riders for opting to do other things.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Why would GR riders pay extra money for the same events? And unfortunately this is exacerbated by the cost of living crisis. Maybe other years the new Pay as you go membership would have worked but with the price of petrol etc suddenly even 3 or 4 events is more than riders can commit to. BE need to have something to make it more attractive than the UA's to justify the extra costs.

 

[RachelFerd]

Not being defensive - genuinely curious. I keep reading that BE90 and BE80T is or will be 'the death of eventing'. Why?

The various reasons put forward seem to be:

Lower levels mean that BE doesn't 'mean anything' anymore. But no-one inside the world of eventing is going to be confused about what a Novice 'means' compared with a BE80T and no-one outside of eventing knows what any of it means. Besides which why does anyone care? I find it hard to believe that people spend £XXXXXXXXs on a novice horse plus running costs just so they get to say they have done something 'meaningful'.

Now 'anyone can do it' Again see above. Why does the novice eventer on her talented sport horse care what Joe Bloggs on his hairy cob is doing? But also surely the more accessible the sport is the more people try it, fall in love with it and aspire to do more. I got into eventing via unaff 70s on a fell pony. I wanted more so fell pony was swapped for Amber and I'm hooked.

People don't aspire to move up the levels. So what? Many people don't have the horse power to go higher than BE90 anyway. A BE100/N horse is well into 5 figures. But what is wreing with a thriving grassroots scene? The last season I did was BE90 level on Amber and every event was full and wailisted. Last year Katie did U18s and again every event was full and waitlisted. Thpse classes bring money and people into sport. Why is that bad?

I personally think BE may be struggling because of unaff events providing a much cheaper alternative while offering much the same - or exacty the same event. And while offerng a better competition structure. Plus the cost of living crisis which is no-ones fault. Unaff eventing is very problematic and I am part of that because I have chosen that route myself this season. But it is a no brainer personally - cheaper, better protected and better comp structure. So BE needs to make BE more attractive, not blame riders for opting to do other things.

I am not sure what the answer to that is apart from obviously sorting out the mess that is Badmionton GR and offering more options for those for who Badminiton is unrealistic. Regional leagues etc. But then people think offering too many options is also killing the sport though I am not sure why.

Can someone please explain why attracting more people and making a sport more accessible is killing off the sport? And is there actually any evidence of that?

I agree with you on nearly all of this (particularly that BE should be inclusive and represent the sport at all levels) - the only point that I'd like to understand better is that the unaffiliated events are offering a better 'competition structure'? Is it literally just that there's a series?

Because in terms of the 'structure' of the competition - lots of things are missing - officials, rider reps, MERs, safeguarding policies.... none of which is attractive to you or me from a 'nice day out' perspective I get that!

So if its the series structure that you and others like, I don't understand why regional leagues can't be established under the BE banner.

My take on it would be:

1. drop the registration costs altogether for 80 level,
2. bring 70 level under that umbrella too - make 70-80 a BE free intro level - and make it FUN and informal (and v much about getting people into the sport safely)
3. let venues put these competitions on in the same way they have been, but bring them under the BE umbrella by name
4. Add in sliding scale membership for 90s and 100s
5. Run a league series for each area - utilising pre-existing Brigante cup for the North, Cotswold Cup for Central and west mids, and SEEL for the South East (add in SW, Scotland, East Mids, Wales)
6. Introduce the restricted sections for people to use if they want to
7. bring back the training and camps that helped to foster friendships and community
8. run more fun leagues - veteran leagues, adults on ponies, native breeds, cobs, thoroughbreds (well we sort of have this already)
9. do more to directly link riding club and pony club into BE - join-up on running events, make MERs count across the piece

BE should NOT be trying to be exclusive or aspirational, or limit its activities to the exclusive higher levels. That is NOT what any sporting body should be doing - that's a backwards looking and elitist viewpoint.

Look to other sports

[caveat, i know nothing about football, but...] the FA is responsible for football at all levels - youth, women's, disability football, amateur adult football (including walking football for older people) AND the top end of the premier league or whatever their leagues are called

England Athletics covers every level of running activities - if I run in my local 5K race, it is england athletics affiliated. But they also looka after the top end of hte sport...

 

[LEC]

It's interesting because at the time I remember it being thought that bringing in 80 was mostly to bring in more money

It was to get lottery funding

 

[teapot]

Not sure whether this is BE’s fault per se but one wonders if those who event are now far quicker to not enter/withdraw at the slightest sign of rain/mud/firm/too firm/not firm enough/grass covering too short/grass covering too long/on a surface/not on a surface/spooky sj/spooky dressage etc etc

There’s so much information about these days that I wonder if people are making too much of a informed decision (rightly or wrongly) rather than getting on with it (to a point).

 

[MissTyc]

The vast majority of competitors at 80/90/100, ime, aren't trying to qualify for anything. The pros are just trying to make the horse worth more with some reasonable scores and sell it, or take it up another level, and the amateurs just want a great day out with a gallop round the cross country to top it off. The popularity of day tickets proves this, I think.

So if you don't want to qualify, and you can do the same event for a lot less money, why wouldn't you? And that is hitting BE in the pockets that it filled, for a while, by diving down that dark rabbit hole in pursuit of the money that lower level competitions would bring in.
.

This is exactly my situation. I haven't affiliated in over a decade as I've had more fun and budget at unaffiliated. Max 100 for my own nerves these days irrespective of the horse and why shouldn't I have fun flying around at speed on a well-designed safe course within an hour's drive from my yard? With the cost of Diesel going up and up and I probably will only be doing local for the foreseeable anyway.