So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Cragrat]

For what it's worth - here's my made-up way this would work:

1 March - 30 June - 4 month initial qualification period - at BE80/90/100 level - qualify by getting 3x double clears, OR 1x top 10% placing
July & August - area festivals - with a better geographical spread - you can only compete at 1, top 20% qualify
September - championships - at Blenheim to run alongside a 'big' event, or Cornbury for big event feel... or Kelsall for something standalone but with potential to be impressive

I like this idea - there definitely needs to be a regional/area level similar to BD.

 

[MagicMelon]

Its expensive and you can compete unaffiliated for much less on the same courses. My local XC venue has cancelled their first BE event because there were so few entires and they just couldn’t afford to lose money once they started the ballot process. There are no such problems filling spaces when Horse Events run the same type of event over a weekend at the same venue.

As a volunteer I have only fence judged once for BE and never again but I’m happy to help the organisers at Horse Events because they are well run and they look after us brilliantly.

Its the cost thats limiting for me these days. I wish up my way that we even had "local" XC venues but we dont have many at all and of the odd unaffiliated couple, they're not well built so not encouraging to go to. By choice I would always opt for the unaffiliated (if a decent built course) as its so much cheaper. I did BE for years, mainly novice and up to CIC* level a few times and that was the highlight of my riding career. I love BE, I like how well organised the events are and the atmosphere but the weird increase in costings now along with the insane rule that they dont need to refund your entry if they have to cancel due to weather is just ridiculous - I cannot afford to compete at BE anymore even at the lowest level, but if I did manage to go to a couple on a ticket I really couldnt afford to risk losing my entry fee through no fault of my own. I have also fence judged at both unaffiliated and BE, as much as BE really look after us and are very appreciative, they were very very long days sitting in a chair in all weathers.

In Scotland, we dont have enough BE events in general. They're all massively spread out these days and I dont think many want to waste fuel and time driving 3+ hours to events. Im in NE Scotland and we dont even get any of the winter stuff you get down south, like the arena eventing stuff or the special BE training things etc. so utterly pointless being a member as dont even get those benefits.

Ultimately I feel there is a big need for more unaffiliated XC courses in Scotland, we dont have many or ones that actually hold proper competitions. We dont have any qualifer type things either. As much as I love eventing, Ive resigned myself to not getting many/any XC runs this year.

 

[donkeyindisguise]

I always watch these threads with interest.... BE has always been the goal for me and it still is to a degree (albeit a long way off with a young horse and only just purchasing transport).

The event I've got my heart set on doing starts at 100 so I know I'll need my MERS to get there but BE is far too expensive for me to justify now, and I certainly can't afford to risk losing the entry if it abandons. So for now when we're ready, in my head I have it planned that I'll have to do unaff until we're doing that confidently enough to justify entering a few BEs to get the MERs we need.

I'd love to support BE, I've been to a few events and can see why people love it.... but when most the courses round me offer an unaff event the week after the BE, over the same course.... it's an absolute no brainer really

I don't know the answer to fix it, and I do know that technically I will be part of the problem doing things the way I currently have planned, but there must be something, as there will be plenty more like me that want to event and should be choosing BE but won't be doing..... how do you change that mindset?

Someone suggested no membership costs for the lower levels, that seems like a fantastic place to start personally, I don't know, just rambling really :')

 

[Cragrat]

Another watching this thread with interest.

I have said before - we pay a rider membership, a horse membership, increased entry fees and start fees. What does that get us over and above unaffiliated???? A structure, some consistency in differnt courses at the same level, some decent safety rules like MER's . At the lower levels, I am not worried about gaining points. They pretty pointless - I'm not trying sell my horse.

Unaffiliated are developing some better championship series, are cheaper to enter and just as well run? Why would I choose to pay extra to BE?

I also feel that the lower levels of BE are just there to prop up the higher levels. But it would be massive shame if BE were to collapse

 

[Ambers Echo]

Somerford is low on entries. It is a fantastic course at a fantastic venue so would be a huge shame for it to not run. So I am also worried about the future of BE -and am also part of the problem as I have no plans to event BE this year as I am focused on the Brigante Cup. A cup qualifier clashes with Somerford BE so I am not even doing it as a one off to support that particular venue.

But this weekend at Epworth got me thinking again about the question of 'What has BE done wrong'.
I have done 2 events this season and my times have been nicely spaced in both. I looked at all sections and that seems to be the case across the board.

Katie's last BE at Frickley had 5 hours between dressage and XC! 9ish dressage, 2ish XC. That was a bit extreme but long gaps are far from uncommon. If unaff can schedule classes better than that, why can't BE? Or have I just been lucky so far?

 

[Michen]

Somerford is low on entries. It is a fantastic course at a fantastic venue so would be a huge shame for it to not run. So I am also worried about the future of BE -and am also part of the problem as I have no plans to event BE this year as I am focused on the Brigante Cup. A cup qualifier clashes with Somerford BE so I am not even doing it as a one off to support that particular venue.

But this weekend at Epworth got me thinking again about the question of 'What has BE done wrong'.
I have done 2 events this season and my times have been nicely spaced in both. I looked at all sections and that seems to be the case across the board.

Katie's last BE at Frickley had 5 hours between dressage and XC! 9ish dressage, 2ish XC. That was a bit extreme but long gaps are far from uncommon. If unaff can schedule classes better than that, why can't BE? Or have I just been lucky so far?

I love the spacing, time for a picnic and a cider (or two)

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yes I guess some people prefer it. I feel far too sick with nerves about the XC to want to hang around for hours waiting for it. And it's a long old day as it is.

 

[Squeak]

There seem to be quite a few events struggling this year. It's hard to differentiate between the impacts of external factors such as increased cost of living and fuel and of course the unaffiliated events between the internal factors such as the increase in costs for entries, potential calendar issues, IT issues and other internal BE issues.

Potentially this always would have been a bad year for BE even if their house was in order.

 

[RachelFerd]

I did notice a showing article in the H&H this week bemoaning massive lack of entries in showing classes at agricultural and county shows - RIHS qualifiers with only 1 entry etc. - so I've seen BS, BD, BE and Showing venues all worried about lack of entries - so this does seem to be across the board.

That said, I wasn't surprised that Broadway and Moreton Morrell cancelled/reduced to 1 day - as this is the area of the country most significantly impacted by a local rise in co-ordinated unaff series via the Cotswold Cup.

I think market is saturated at a time when people are also keen to stay local. Certainly our local 'riding club' showing show that runs on the edge of my yard looks as busy as ever - but most people hack to it - no fuel costs!

...

Katie's last BE at Frickley had 5 hours between dressage and XC! 9ish dressage, 2ish XC. That was a bit extreme but long gaps are far from uncommon. If unaff can schedule classes better than that, why can't BE? Or have I just been lucky so far?

The Unaff classes using eventing scores will schedule in exactly the same way. It is the way that the sections pan out - if you are competing in the classes that are running last in the day on XC the dressage times will often be a long time before - its just how the scheduling works. If you're in early sections you're likely to have the standard 1hr-ish gaps. FEI is different because each phase has to conclude before the next is allowed to start - so gaps are always huge.

 

[TheMule]

I have a nice young horse that could go BE this year. But I don’t need to- there are loads of unaff options that I don’t need to commit to a membership fee for, that have a slightly lower entry fee, that have an entry date much closer to the event date and that will do the job for educating the horse.
I can run unaff at all of my local BE venues, they all have pro photographer, some have video companies to. There's just no reason for me to go BE

 

[Ambers Echo]

The Unaff classes using eventing scores will schedule in exactly the same way. It is the way that the sections pan out - if you are competing in the classes that are running last in the day on XC the dressage times will often be a long time before - its just how the scheduling works. If you're in early sections you're likely to have the standard 1hr-ish gaps. FEI is different because each phase has to conclude before the next is allowed to start - so gaps are always huge.

Ah that makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

 

[LEC]

So for me locally:
I am in a very good area and very close to M5 so my options of events within 2 hours is huge both BE and Unaff.

Within 20 days I had the following options: Bicton, Mendip Plains, Howick, Broadway and Port Eliot. I went to one - Bicton.
Broadway, I had run at unaff so no point going back for. MPEC have unaff 7 days after BE so going to enter younger horse in that. Bigger horse is having to trek 4 hours to Firle so knocks out MPEC and Howick. Port Eliot is 2 hours which is £100 in fuel so no point in making eventing £250 for a day out when it could be £150. Howick would have been the one I would have attended but a few days after Firle.

The younger horse has been on the back burner and is now getting going and I have three championships to aim for unaff and none at BE this year. Championships don't particularly motivate me and I don't go chasing them but they are nice to aim for on a 90/100 horse if it happens. That horse will not be doing BE as no point. Won't affiliate until close to Novice as I don't need MERs.

I only affiliated the grey horse because I want to go Novice, so if I did PAYG which was my first choice, then could not do 1* at Offchurch or Area Festival so swayed me but now need to run 9x to make it worthwhile.

I don't think there is one particular thing that is causing this issue but lots of smaller things.
Price of fuel
Inflation
Quality of Unaff and a clear calendar which people can plan for.
No membership needed for unaff so saves £250 immediately if a 100 horse.
Moving to PAYG which has hit those who might want to do 2-3 events.
Lack of fun things to aim for at BE within a calendar year.
Area Festival locations and timing in the calendar.
Poor fixtures scheduling.
Hard ground - nothing we can do on this but it does have an impact.

 

[AandK]

I haven't done BE for about 7yrs now.. Did a handful of UAs in 2017/18 on my old boy before he retired 3yrs ago, current horse is not ready to try eventing yet, maybe at the end of the season, if we do it will be UA as I have no idea how he will take to it.

I see a lot of posts on FB about rising costs (both BE and cost of living!) as well as events crying out for entries or cancelling. It's so sad to see this gradual decline so to speak, I'm so grateful for the chances I got to go BE with the old boy back in the day (2002-2015 ish, not that we were that successful, but had some great times). I'd love to do that again with the 9yo but things have changed so much, I wonder what the next few years will bring.

 

[Penguin_Toes]

Is there a bit more of a risk if you go BE and have a terrible run that it is easily viewable by anyone with Google and could affect a horses price.

What happens at an unaffiliated stays at an unaffiliated!

 

[LEC]

Is there a bit more of a risk if you go BE and have a terrible run that it is easily viewable by anyone with Google and could affect a horses price.

What happens at an unaffiliated stays at an unaffiliated!

Nah it’s very easy to find results now unless they have given the horse a completely different name but cotswold cup ask for entries to be under passport name.

 

[ester]

The schedule clashes/close tos I find really strange given that it seems it gets mentioned every year but no one seems to sit down and re work it?!

 

[Nicnac]

So with 90% of responses saying unaffiliated is the way to go, why did Munstead unaff only have enough entries to run one day last week rather than the planned two days? A great ODE, BE course, BE type organisation. Loads and loads of chimney pots in the surrounding areas so cheap for most to get to. Somethings not adding up.

 

[RachelFerd]

Oh for crying out loud. Just entered Somerford with young horse. Not enough entries... cancelled... and it isn't like it clashes with anything locally. There's a Brigante cup event at Epworth, but that is 100 miles away. It is the only free weekend I have to take the baby to something in between international events for the older horse. Seriously annoying

 

[Ambers Echo]

The cost of living crisis may be affecting entries right across the board. Pony club can't even fill their annual camp. There is normally a massive bunfight over who gets places.

 

[ester]

sorry RF spotted you’d already said

So somerford has cancelled

 

[ester]

So with 90% of responses saying unaffiliated is the way to go, why did Munstead unaff only have enough entries to run one day last week rather than the planned two days? A great ODE, BE course, BE type organisation. Loads and loads of chimney pots in the surrounding areas so cheap for most to get to. Somethings not adding up.

I think it’s twofold cost = unaffiliated pref but also removes people that would normally be doing only unaff too

 

[milliepops]

The cost of living crisis may be affecting entries right across the board. Pony club can't even fill their annual camp. There is normally a massive bunfight over who gets places.

could well be. i am quite glad that my current rides are yonks away from even being ready for an arena hire, because i don't feel like i'm missing out. at the moment i am struggling to justify the cost of diesel to even move the lorry.

 

[RachelFerd]

sorry RF spotted you’d already said

So somerford has cancelled

No options to run young horse until 11th June now Bradwall this weekend is too soon for him, and then there's nothing in the area because Somerford was filling a fairly important gap. But no-one is entering (anything) it seems.

 

[Ambers Echo]

It's really sad to have lost Somerford. Hopefully a 1 year only blip. It's my favourite course. Well, of the ones I have done anyway.

 

[LEC]

The cost of living crisis may be affecting entries right across the board. Pony club can't even fill their annual camp. There is normally a massive bunfight over who gets places.

Our local RC couldn’t fill their spaces and normally it’s a bunfight for camp. I keep watching the Banfield camps as they are extortionate now as went up £100 from last year. They also seem much slower with uptake.

 

[RachelFerd]

It's really sad to have lost Somerford. Hopefully a 1 year only blip. It's my favourite course. Well, of the ones I have done anyway.

It is a fantastic course, saved purely for competitions and only used for 2x BE events and 1x RClub event usually each year. The 80 and 90 in particularly are only available at this event as the 2nd event starts at 100. They look after the ground brilliantly, it is presented beautifully and previously when it has been firm they have watered extensively.

Just trying to kick myself to remember that cost of living crisis is impacting other people in much worse ways than just a grassroots event cancellation...

 

[Nicnac]

So just looking through the cancelled BE events to date:

Bovington - Cancelled 80 - IN
Withington Manor - Cancelled N - 2* - not due to low entries but other costs.
Moreton Morrell - Cancelled 2nd day 90 - N
Horseheath 2 - entries shockingly low. 90 - 105 Clashes with Badminton but not same market!
Somerford - cancelled 90 - 100+ Really sorry @RachelFerd

The higher levels seem to be attracting good entries so those owners running horses with pros don't seem to have been 'bitten' as much as Joe Public by the COL increases. This makes sense as it's still early days and they are, in general, starting from a better financial position than your bog standard one horse amateur. Will be interesting to see if the higher levels which are significantly more expensive to enter and maintain horses at are still as flush next year.

 

[RachelFerd]

So just looking through the cancelled BE events to date:

Bovington - Cancelled 80 - IN
Withington Manor - Cancelled N - 2* - not due to low entries but other costs.
Moreton Morrell - Cancelled 2nd day 90 - N
Horseheath 2 - entries shockingly low. 90 - 105 Clashes with Badminton but not same market!
Somerford - cancelled 90 - 100+ Really sorry @RachelFerd

The higher levels seem to be attracting good entries so those owners running horses with pros don't seem to have been 'bitten' as much as Joe Public by the COL increases. This makes sense as it's still early days and they are, in general, starting from a better financial position than your bog standard one horse amateur. Will be interesting to see if the higher levels which are significantly more expensive to enter and maintain horses at are still as flush next year.

Add Broadway to that list - cancelled 80-N

But also entries are still low at the higher level events. Kelsall cancelled their Friday, compressing the 90s into a couple of sections on Sunday afternoon and balloting all non-member entries. Chatsworth is fully subscribed, but didn't have to ballot, which is totally unheard of.

If you were a grassroots eventer in Cheshire just competing at 90 and not wanting to jump any bigger, you'd have wasted your money on PAYG or membership right now

 

[Ambers Echo]

And Kelsall dropped a day

 

[ihatework]

So just looking through the cancelled BE events to date:

Bovington - Cancelled 80 - IN
Withington Manor - Cancelled N - 2* - not due to low entries but other costs.
Moreton Morrell - Cancelled 2nd day 90 - N
Horseheath 2 - entries shockingly low. 90 - 105 Clashes with Badminton but not same market!
Somerford - cancelled 90 - 100+ Really sorry @RachelFerd

The higher levels seem to be attracting good entries so those owners running horses with pros don't seem to have been 'bitten' as much as Joe Public by the COL increases. This makes sense as it's still early days and they are, in general, starting from a better financial position than your bog standard one horse amateur. Will be interesting to see if the higher levels which are significantly more expensive to enter and maintain horses at are still as flush next year.

A lot of the pros round here are using the Cotswold cup or other unaff to bring the young horses out for owners