So, which one of you lot is the one-in-twenty?

[Caol Ila]

*sheepishly raises hand* I might be just under ten percent. I'm around 54kg and my horse is around 565kg. That is approximately 9.5 percent.

 

[Orls]

What's all this 10% business ?!! Where have they plucked that figure from ?!!

 

[*hic*]

What's all this 10% business ?!! Where have they plucked that figure from ?!!

Thin air and thick brains

 

[Jesstickle]

What's all this 10% business ?!! Where have they plucked that figure from ?!!

'An industry practitioner' proposes it


No one knows who as the full paper does not yet seem to have been published (or if it has I can't find it) so there is no citation

 

[Double_choc_lab]

In the older days of Badminton horses had to carry minimum of 11 st 10 lb of weight (75kg) so how many 750 kg horses did we see then? Think Charisma and Pippa's little coloured horse (name escapes me) and they did the long course with roads and tracks and steeplechase. Better ban all military and police horses from service and also abolish the handicap system for the top racehorses. Lets all just give up and raise lawn mowers.

 

[MrsMozart]

There was an article (the same one?) in the Sunday Telegraph and I don't think that referred to research either. As bad as each other newspapers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ng-the-strain-of-Britains-obesity-crisis.html

As an aside, I just loveeek the fact that the rider in the picture isn't wearing a hat


*goes to get her hat and wobble out of the thread as, having done the calcuations, I'm off to buy a rocking horse (which, knowing my luck, will get blinking woodworm...)*

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Old mare is 14.3 and just under 400kgs coming out of winter

Appy is 15.1 and 420kgs and kept that way due to IR and has a weight limit of 9isg stone......

Race horse is 16.2 and weights 520kgs


Now I'm 5'6 and weight 8stone 6

Brother is 6' and weighs 11 stone

Sister is 5'8ish and weighs 9 1/2 stone


Can someone work these out for me.......I'm just curious, none of my lot struggle when we all swap and play on each others ponies, even the brother on old mare!

 

[Tabula Rasa]

I was always told growing up its a stone for every hand (including all tack and clothing)

I never knew if this was right/wrong.

Has anyone else heard of this?

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Okay just work it out that appy should only carry 6 stone and the tb should on carry 8 stone.......that is is is is.....I have no words!!!!

 

[Dukey]

Me too. I'm 57kg one horse is 730kg the other is 650kg the latter horse is very strong an I've been told that I'm too little and his more of a man's horse to be fair I'm having to consider a stronger bit as XC can get tricky...

 

[Double_choc_lab]

I was always told growing up its a stone for every hand (including all tack and clothing)

I never knew if this was right/wrong.

Has anyone else heard of this?

Although I don't agree with the 10% rule a stone for a hand would be horrendous. I cannot imagine any situation where a 11 stone person (OK including saddle) could ride an 11hh pony. If you applied the 10% rule this would mean someone about 20-25kg only should ride which is somewhere between 3-4 stone. One huge difference here.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

They talked about it briefly on the wright stuff this morning but it was 15 % of body weight which sounds more like it.

 

[1stclassalan]

Well I wormed my old dear reckoning at 1600lbs in the old money and I rode out at 11st 7lb in me undies so clothes and her massive Turf & Travel saddle puts us over!!

Very few people under ( or over ) my weight wanted to be anywhere near her when she did her dragon impersonations!

 

[PonyIAmNotFood]

I'm 6ft and 12stone...what am I allowed to ride?! Probably not my 15.3hh fairly fine loan horse anymore Damn.

 

[Littlelegs]

I've heard the stone per hand bull too, usually a theory bandied about by far too heavy people wanting to ride ponies under 13hh. Along with the bull about 'bred to carry shepherds up mountains all day' to excuse putting 9+ stone on a scrawny 11hh sec a.

 

[wiz07]

errmmmm my math aint great so Im 52kg and i ride a chunky 13.2 at approx 340kg
And once broken the other is 15.1 600kg?

So max weight for my pony is 34kg ?? I doubt it
However well within the weight for my tb....


So obese horses who weigh higher than they should are able to carry more weight than their fitter and healthier mates??? ? I think not - There are many flaws to this study!

 

[iCandy]

If the 10% rule is correct (which I personally doubt) then where does that leave jockeys? Not sure what the average jockey weighs (maybe 50kg?) but I'd be surprised if the horses were more than 500kg (given their age and carrying no fat). How few adults are their size!!

 

[Jesstickle]

If the 10% rule is correct (which I personally doubt) then where does that leave jockeys? Not sure what the average jockey weighs (maybe 50kg?) but I'd be surprised if the horses were more than 500kg (given their age and carrying no fat). How few adults are their size!!

I reckon jockeys would come close. Some of them really do only weigh 7 and a bit stone in their under crackers which would put them at 50ish kg but I would be surprised if many 2yo TBs weigh 500kg.

So even in an industry where weight is everything they probably aren't always going to make the 10% optimum!

Never mind the fact said horses are ridden by 9 stone fatties like me at home, not jockeys

(I am not nine stone anymore, but I was when I worked in racing!)

 

[3OldPonies]

OK - hands up I'm guilty! (but in the 10 - 15% category and planning to get him and me fitter together)

But, I'm still worried; if I went to the 7 st that would be ideal for him according the Mail then I'd be too weak to look after him properly!!!!

Also, if we all fatten our horses and ponies up to make the ideal figures at which we could ride them (according to the article) what damage would we be going to feet (laminitis) and their overall health. Obese is not good and we've been told about that enough in recent years, surely we have to approach this practically - if the animal we're riding is struggling to carry us then there is a problem - if not then no problem and carry on. There are many elements to take into account here and it's surely possibly that an un-fit, unskilled lighter rider could cause the problems described in the article.

 

[Fransurrey]

Just idly wondering where I could find someone under 30Kg that could handle an exmoor...let alone ride one!!!!!!

 

[nostromo70]

Just as big a problem is overweight ponies/horses with overweight riders. How many ppl weight tape or guess the weight of their horses and think they fall inside of this so called 10%. When it's actually that their horse is overweight.

 

[Irishcobs]

If the 10% rule is correct (which I personally doubt) then where does that leave jockeys? Not sure what the average jockey weighs (maybe 50kg?) but I'd be surprised if the horses were more than 500kg (given their age and carrying no fat). How few adults are their size!!

Jump jockeys would weigh more. One NH horse I worked with was 480kg (he was tiny) so that would mean 7.5 stone. A NH jockey would need to weigh around the 12 stone mark depending on handicaps etc etc, some jockey need weighted pads to up their weights.

I do think 10% is unrealistic. 15% is far more reasonable.

 

[to do list]

Lets face it the actual article everyone is reading is by a journalist, who needs to make eye catching headlines! (That's his job) hence why you have all read it. How many of you have read the abstract that was published first at an ISES conference in 2011? I would imagine alot more people have read the news article than the conference proceedings? or the abstract in the Journal of Veterinary Behaviour.

http://www.equitationscience.com/documents/Proceedings/Netherlands2011_Proceedings.pdf (page 68)
You will see that the research expanded since this abstract was first published to a larger sample size.

The abstract clearly shows that actually the researchers are merely reporting on the relationships found in the UK leisure riding population and have compared them to the guidelines of an industry practitioner.

Copied from the abstract; 'Since observed rider to horse BW ratios varied between 14.2 and 16.6%, the suggested 10% guideline appears unrealistic within the general riding population. These data form the basis of assessment of the effect of rider physical measures on horse performance which will allow the development of a scientifically based guideline allowing informed decisions to be made on horse-rider suitability.'

 

[JFTDWS]

The article is an entirely factual summary of the paper with verbatim quotation from related experts. There is no editorial spin that I can see.

Really?

From the DM:

Horses are the latest victims of the obesity crisis as they take the burden of their overweight riders, experts have warned.
...
A study found a third of recreational riders were too obese for their mounts

HEADLINE:

Plague of the overweight riders who are too heavy for their horses

From the article (it's not a "paper" - it's a short comm, no M&M, or indeed sections, it's barely even a study by any real standards):

Riders were of a healthy Body Mass Index (BMI) compared to UK National Health Service guidelines...

In this study riders possessed a healthy BMI.

Yep, no editorial bias to fit in with "obesity crisis" scare mongering at all, that I can see



Oh and FYI, technical misrepresentation:

DM:

Vet guidelines advise that riders weigh less than 10 per cent of their mount

Article:

An industry practitioner proposes a 10% rider to horse BW ratio for optimum performance

Equine industry does not equal veterinary professional

 

[to do list]

The abstract from the ISES proceedings is the preliminary report of a study, the full paper is yet to be published. I think is clear from the first abstract though this research does have a materials and methods, at a guess with the word count restrictions of abstracts, the authors would not be able to go into full detail.

I wonder if the full paper will get this much attention?

 

[JFTDWS]

The abstract from the ISES proceedings is the preliminary report of a study, the full paper is yet to be published. I think is clear from the first abstract though this research does have a materials and methods, at a guess with the word count restrictions of abstracts, the authors would not be able to go into full detail.

I wonder if the full paper will get this much attention?

I wonder if the full paper will make it through peer review - if they've used the same methodology (weight taping, which is notoriously inaccurate), since the results are so worthless as to be practically fiction

 

[to do list]

Well I have to say that I think the authors have done a great job of making a start on a topic which is clearly highly emotive from this thread and others. I don't see many people out there spending time researching worthwhile topics? Lets face it this research goes back to basics the primary relationship between horse and rider bodyweight, before you factor in numerous other factors, ability; balance; horse fitness etc

I am not sure whether you are aware but for the abstract to be accepted in the first place it would have been reviewed by a committee of proffessionals. May I suggest if you have such negative views towards this research maybe you should email the authors and input your views.

Weightapes have a number of studies regarding their accuracy and I am sure any study using them would reference this, however I think that at least they are utilising a method which is accessible to the masses. With the limited funding available to research I think it would be unlikely that any preliminary study would be given funds to purchase a weighbridge.

I for one do not have a weighbridge that I can take my horses to and I cannot say I know of any leisure riders that own one and very few that have access to one.

 

[ester]

how did that even get published as a short communication???

I won't stress too much about not being 7 stone

 

[Fools Motto]

Christ alive, I'm way too heavy and shouldn't be allowed to even look at a saddle let alone a horse!

(Clearly the polo pony didn't agree this morning as she pratted about with me up, like I was a feather - ((in my dreams!!))... for the love of god I couldn't morph into anything heavier to anchor her down!)

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't see many people out there spending time researching worthwhile topics?

Don't you? Because all the vet schools, medical schools and other institutions are out there researching all the (reasonable) quality data you see published in high impact journals

I am not sure whether you are aware but for the abstract to be accepted in the first place it would have been reviewed by a committee of proffessionals.

No of course my ref to it not getting through peer review implies I have no idea about the process of science publishing Abstracts are published on the strength of very little data, especially in such low impact journals. I really don't feel it says much in the favour of this "research"

Weightapes have a number of studies regarding their accuracy and I am sure any study using them would reference this, however I think that at least they are utilising a method which is accessible to the masses. With the limited funding available to research I think it would be unlikely that any preliminary study would be given funds to purchase a weighbridge.

I for one do not have a weighbridge that I can take my horses to and I cannot say I know of any leisure riders that own one and very few that have access to one.

Lots of feed companies, larger shows, vet practices etc can arrange access. Weight tapes are known to be unreliable, hence the increasing availability of weigh bridges for horse owners.

I have to ask, are you affiliated to the study, by any chance?