...so your competeing in a show jumping class....and you get a refusal..

wildflower

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So your competeing in a show jumping class...and your horse or pony refuses a jump ...what would you do???....and its not HOYS or Olympia...just a low key show.....is a wack , and a wack and shouting and kicking ..the way to go??....so disillusioned with some riding I saw today .....and I mean a wack !...
 

GCC

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me neither. i see alot of it about and it disgusts me. i have more respect for those who retire they're horses and then work on it at home then winde the horse up more and make an idiot of themselves infront of spectators.
 

fidleyspromise

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To answer the question, I was out SJ a couple of years ago and pony didn't so much refuse as there was a simulator beside the ring. I tried to get her past it and she backed off. I tried using my legs and tried using my whip (One smack). She was genuinely scared of it, so that was that. we finished!

Last year we got to a double and she ran out so brought her round, re-represented it, she jumped it!

So, no, I don't think that's on at all, ANYWHERE.
 

Shantara

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I hate seeing people whack their horse. When Ned refuses, he gets a growl, turned and put over it. If he refuses a second time, he get a smack on the bum. No matter how much he was messing around, I would never 'whackwhackwhack'.
 

wildflower

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Saw lots of bad riders today ......I,ve never understood it either.Most were teenagers...one girl got a refusal, took the pony back round ..it refused again..it was hit hard with a crop three times and shouted at..took the pony round again ..it refused ..punished again..and again..she tried another jump the same happened......eventually she got it over another jump and was applauded !..then reitred...of course it was the pony,s fault ..nothing to do with being unbalanced , lacking impulsion ....just saw some really awful bad riding ..makes me want to keep our pony forever and never sell her on(which we plan to do ) ..when you see some of the riders they could end up with...:confused:
 

JFTDWS

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I am very vocal riding, so would almost certainly be shouting 'get on'. If he was being a sod, yes he would get booted into it and yes I would use my crop. Neither of my horses refuse often. I don't think it is acceptable behaviour and I will reprimand for it.

On the one occasion I felt my cob stop and he was iust saying that he couldn't do it, I retired him. Same as I would do when I'm schooling over fences.
 

Littlelegs

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If I thought there was a good reason for it, then no, I'd retire. But if it knew full well how to behave & was just being a sod, then I'd give it a smack, kick or both. Mine hates water jumps xc. If she can't see the landing is in water she's fine, or if hunting will dive right in. But she knows her job, & if she refused she'd get a smack & kicked into it
 

dressagelove

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When I was about 10 I did my first ever sj competition. Was terrified. Went in, and pony stopped at first fence... 3 times, eliminated, out you go!

What did I do? Cried all the way home! haha, course would never beat them!
 

Ollie's Mum

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Worst thing my friend and I ever saw was a girl with three ponies in a class at a local riding club show - she had the strongest bits in (that she was sawing away on), booting them (with spurs) and father was yelling from the ringside at her to "whack the b*******". She was eliminated with all 3 and how she didn't get lynched by the crowd I'll never know.
 

DuckToller

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The problem here appears to lie with whoever was judging the class. Excessive use of the whip is not allowed under either BS or PC rules and the bell should be rung, the person asked to come over to the judge's box, and then the judge should politely but firmly explain why it is not acceptable to use your whip excessively.

In PC you are not even allowed to hit your horse before you present to the first fence, so anyone entering the arena and giving their horse a firm smack as they went in could be eliminated for that.

It is these low standards of judging that allows bad riding to continue, because it leads to people thinking it is ok to keep hitting a horse. Believe me, if I had been judging I would have rung the bell and asked said rider to come over.
 

Lolo

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Depends on the horse.

My old boy would sometimes stop just for a laugh- rarely, but it did happen. When it did, I'd growl at him, give him a wallop then as we approached the fence again give him another for luck. He was old and wise enough to know not to stop like that, and if I let him get away with it he'd do it again and again, just to see how far he could push me. If the stop was my fault (silly angle, rubbish stride, general bad riding, I'd just turn back and try again).

The horse I rode this summer, I just turned back into the fence and maybe tapped gently down the shoulder- I was very nervous and riding quite backwards, so SuperCob deserved all the praise and no punishment at all!

Al will give Reg a firm smack behind the leg if it's unreasonable for him to stop, but he's a softy who needs people to be nice. I've seen him stop all of once, ever, SJ and it was totally out of the ordinary for him and he got told off and then praised for jumping nicely.
 

Spotsrock

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I see it a lot. I get chuckles and nice comments if it ever happens to me. I pat her, verbally apologise for dropping her and bring her back round with a bit of a kick at take off. I do have a genuine pony though. Any issues are normally my fault.
 

nikCscott

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Well I'll probably get shot down here, but I'd rather see a naughty refusal challenged with a 'that is not acceptable' smack behind the leg and growling 'GEEETTTTT OOOONNNN!!' Than I would the rider (and 'they' are everywhere) who slap their horses down the shoulder on the approach to EVERY jump! :mad:

My horse loves his show jumping and will go from anywhere and has only stopped once and because it is so rare i retired him without trying again as something was obviously up although I never knew what. XC he's greener and needs REALLY riding into the 1st 3 fences then he find his confidence and we're off, but the 1st 3 aren't pretty there is lots of kicking and growling quickly followed with a pats and 'good booooy' once over then back to kicking until he gets it!
 
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My mare doesn't refuse. The very first training show she stopped at the first fence. I went in, dropped one of the poles and after that she jumped everything. (I had her in training). From that day on my mare has taken on everything you ever point her at. She does not care. She is also ridden with no spurs and no whip.

Taking into account she was a 5 YO baby last year and showed she will do anything asked of her including getting out of impossible situations, I would never reprimand her if she stops. It would be quite out of character and she will get the benefit of the doubt. As I will be jumping her myself this year I would view any stop as me asking a question she didn't know how to answer or she is in pain. And I'm very much not one of those blame everything bad behavoir on pain. But this mare has shown she will do whatever you ask of her so in my book she deserves the benefit of doubt.

I very much view stoppers as rider created, horse better suited to another discipline, or in pain. So making a complete show of yourself in the ring means you don't have much respect for your horse. Or give a toss what the problem is. 99% of the time I will blame myself so why hit my horse.

Terri
 

tinap

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With our boy he would be brought straight back around to try again as he only tends to stop if rider has dropped a hand. If it is a dirty stop for no reason then 1 smack on the bum is more than ample!

I've seen a pony get 6 wallops today after stopping at a fence - wasn't pleasant to watch :(
 

Jnhuk

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As a teenager, the pony I competed on (former Bsja) would frequently refuse with sj but better with xc and wh type fences so something had sickened him with sj. Listen to the horse/pony and figure out the reason. We had great success dressage and great fun ht and xc instead.
 

majors

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When he stops as he did twice today, I laugh appologise to the horse, come round again and ride better, but then my horse is very honest bless him,:D
 

stencilface

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I love this. Person canters up to fence, drops horse a stride or two before and horse stops. Person hits horse, and approaches the fence the same again but by luck the horse get over.

They really need to have instructors who pay attention in lessons and don't encourage people to hit their horse as a first option when something stops. I would hazard a guess that most stops are caused by rider error, or if not error exactly, the horse is presented on a duff stride with nowhere to go. Showjumpers should stop at a fence if they are completely off to it and won't make it over, its better they stop than trash the thing.
 

Kelly1982

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Dont carry a whip and on the very rare occasion my horse has refused it's coz she has wound herself up so I usually turn her away, give her a stroke, calm her down and approach again.

I would however give one hard whack on the bum if I knew the horse was just being a sod but in all honestly how often does this happen?? 9/10 it's rider error
 

livetoride

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Well, in the case of a wilful disobedience, i.e. not rider error, then the horse / pony needs to understand that stopping has consequences and is not an option unless the rider decides so.

So I wouldn't normally let a horse get away with a refusal without a swift whack or two - assuming I felt the horse knew what I was asking it to do, was capable of it and had been given a reasonable chance of making the jump. Stopping can be a dangerous and unacceptable disobedience.

But yes, if the horse is presented wrongly and given no realistic chance of making the jump, then it a walloping will do no good at all.
 

stencilface

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Any horse that refuses get's a wallop off me, it does not matter where you are, horses are big, and sometimes dangerous. They must respect the rider/handler at all times as I will not be hurt by ignorant, rude horses. the amount of fluffy people on this thread is a joke.
WTF?! :D

If you drop a horse at a fence by dropping the reins, the support is gone, the direction is gone and the horse is not honest will stop. This is not the horses fault this is YOUR fault as a rider.

Sometimes there is no stride for the horse to jump off without taking the entire fence down, this too, is generally rider error as you should know how many strides there are to the fence, and shoudl ride accordingly - the horse doesn't know - yet again - not the horses fault.

The amount of SJers that are ruined by 'rude and ignorant' riders is unbeliveable. :rolleyes: I think there's needs to be more 'fluffy bunnies' around tbh, there would be a lot more happier horses, ridden correctly and consistently.

I don't think many horses would have respect for a handler that rides them incorrectly then punishes them for no reason :rolleyes:
 

GTs

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In all seriousness when I stopped riding with a whip I think my horsemanship improved rapidly. Maybe I don't have the tolerance some have for mediocre horses, and have been lucky to pair myself up well - but honestly loosing my whip worked great for me.
 

EmmasMummy

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I used to jsut make sure Horsie had impuslision and was a tad wound up BEFORE I went in. I only ever jumped a max 5 warm up fences, and almost just before I went in. I would warm him up with Spurs on, but not using them directly, I would let him feel I had them on for 5 or so mins, then take them off..................dafty thought I still had them on.

I didnt really compete much though. I think we did like 8 outings and never more than 3ft , and only 1 refusal..............at which I did a disgraceful dismount and scared the ST johns lady as she thought my laughing hysterically was crying.

HAHA.
 
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Well if you're referring to me Vectro, don't give a toss. Gee, thanks for letting us know they're big dangerous animals. I never knew that riding races, being a top work rider in the best barns in the States, and starting over 200 youngsters.

Maybe you're used to big pigs of horses. Don't know, but having sat on over 3,000 + odd horses here's something you should remember, most obnoxious horses are rider made. Either by being a bully or by being too timid. I have found 99% of horses will try their asses of for you. Given you understand each horse as an individual. As stated before my mare has had one stop in jumping probably 200 plus fences. Never schools over any of the types of fences seen in shows at home. She is as genuine a horse as I've ever been around.

If she stops well then I'd probably be doing her a favor by giving myself a slap for getting her into trouble. Oh yeah, when working for one of the top jumper riders in the States it was him who taught just what stops really are. His first GP horses were those that had nasty stopping habits deeming them useless. You wouldn't see him with his whip out ever. Let me know when you reach his level.

Terri
 

dafthoss

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I will probably get lynched but when the yellow pony stops he gets a smack on the bum. Its not done him any harm as he has improved massivly from the pony that stopped at anything he didnt like the look of a year ago. He is far more confident and is taking the fences on now but he needed that firm boundry that jumps are for going over not stopping. One well timed slap is far better than the pony having its teeth taken out in anger by a stropy child and I dont see the problem in expecting a horse to help you out over a fence occasionally, there are very few people who get every single jump perfect and horses need to learn to cope with that admittedly if it was every fence then thats diffrent but the odd time I dont have a problem with.
 

EmmasMummy

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Utter *******s as usual from you. Both my horses like to be 'dropped' as niether are happy being yanked in the gob like the majority of the idiots around these days, Far to may horses are ruined by people who think they can ride, but really balance themselves on the horses mouths and hope for the best.
I was taught, to sit deep heels down, leg on, and keep a contact until you feel them take off then give with teh reins.............If I just let go of my neddy before he goes to ****, legs get left everywhere and he is like "waaaaaaa where the hell you go" and stags it. He is a cob though.

But from my experience of falling off jumping (its fair, not extensive) it has always involved me bricking it, freezing up, and flappy reins and the horse not having a clue what to do.

I agree, there are a LOT of mouth yankers out there, but then as observers, we dont know how forward and keen the horse is, it could be a loon. But then its a catch 22......they are fast, harder bit is used, they pull and get dead mouth, so a stronger bit is used, so they get a dead mouth and pull and pull till it looks like a fight is breaking out.


In relation to the whipping bit of OP. When I was abotu 12 we went to watch the Aberdeen Horse Show, and the BSJA ponies class...............some kid, who appeared to be about 8 or 9, was going on his wee pony, and it refused. So he used his whipped so hard and so much that the wee mare was urinating and crapping as she flew over the jumps with a look of fear on her face......................Then he smacked the pony on the way out the ring. He didnt win, thank god.
 

lizziegoos

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Saw lots of bad riders today ......I,ve never understood it either.Most were teenagers...one girl got a refusal, took the pony back round ..it refused again..it was hit hard with a crop three times and shouted at..took the pony round again ..it refused ..punished again..and again..she tried another jump the same happened......eventually she got it over another jump and was applauded !..then reitred...of course it was the pony,s fault ..nothing to do with being unbalanced , lacking impulsion ....just saw some really awful bad riding ..makes me want to keep our pony forever and never sell her on(which we plan to do ) ..when you see some of the riders they could end up with...:confused:
this - i saw the exact same treatment in my neck of the woods today at a show.one inparticular young teenage girl constantly whacked the horse 10 times with a whip,she never spoke to it apart from screaming - bloody hell - (at that point i wanted to shout at her - have some lessons its not the pony its YOU) - she was a poor rider but took it out of the poor cob which was also tacked up to the eyeballs. Not for me to say who does what with their horse at a show but mistreatment to hide your errors when riding is wrong. I was so appaulled i walked off.the best of the riders (everyone said&i thought the same) did NOT use their whip on all the highest fastest jump times.
 

rotters13

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Shoot me down here but:

My horse occasionally props badly towards the fence then jumps it, I have no problem at all hitting her behind my leg to send her forward. She jumps MUCH better because of it but you have to make it clear. Currently I am schooling at home with a long stick as it means I can 'flick' before she props. I think that sometimes giving a horse a 'whack' can be really useful and beneficial. I went XC last week and she propped towards a fence badly, on landing, (I'm not going to gloss) 'whacked' her twice behind my leg. She then jumped a lot better as it becomes crystal clear what is expected of her!
 
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