Social Licence vs Opinion

[Elf On A Shelf]

I think people especially pro's should always be careful what they post online, yes it has gone a bit mad but the equestrian world is in the spotlight for welfare issues so why post anything which a non-horsey person or inexperienced horse person might think is potentially pain related? Yes a lot of us find it amusing and Im usually in awe at how a lot of those riders sit so well to the bronc's but I do think they have to be careful. Ive seen a couple of videos of pro's where I absolutely was pretty horrified at what I saw so I dont think its wrong to question it. Not all pro's are kind, nice people/riders as we all know so yes I think they should be questioned pretty frequently. Their public appearance is very important as a pro rider surely for sponsorship deals / ride offers etc. so why risk posting anything which could be taken negatively?

Like Lynn Russell. A video was posted of a young horse strapped down tight in side reins and she lost her sponsor. That hurt her badly. And I for one am glad as that is one of the milder things she does to the horses.

 

[McFluff]

What a nice demo of how to ride a horse that full of it. I’d have been buried in the arena somewhere!
Thankfully my own horse full of beans is a lot less exuberant (Although still wild enough to make me question my life choices).
Not sure what the answer is for social media. I tend to just click off now, but there does appear to be more positive comments on posts that concern me, and bizarre hate on posts that depict normal horse life. Maybe I live in a different world.

 

[Cortez]

Didn’t we just have an interminable thread on here about an American show jumper that was a handful in prize givings? Half the commenters thought it was in pain and the rider got a hell of a lot of stick, the more experienced, tougher types put it in the “that’s horses” file.

Thank gods there was no social media when I was competing. It’s not real life.

 

[LEC]

I guess the issue is - what is horses just being horses and what is horses being uncomfortable. I do think it’s fairly clear when they are uncomfortable and that is both physically and mentally. Also how long that mental discomfort might be with something like the prize giving which is short term in grand scheme of things.

 

[blitznbobs]

There does seem to be a view that any form of discomfort is bad - where anyone who has been to the gym or taken on a new mental challenge knows that this is simply not the case.

 

[Kat]

There are an awful lot of people on social media that are at the unconscious incompetence phase of learning, just parroting phrases, and unaware that there is a world beyond quiet world weary beginners horses.

London 52 is clearly just enjoying himself! I'm glad mine doesn't enjoy herself that way but they are happy bucks not in pain get off my back bucks.

The other one that made me laugh recently was on a LGCT post. The clip showed John Whitaker entering the arena, his horse was excited and raring to go so it was jogging and trying to canter, he was sitting quietly and letting it get on with it. The comments went mad, including a great many "dreadful how much metal it has got in its mouth" type comments. A quick enlargement of the image showed that the horse was in a snaffle with a hackamore nosepiece ?

 

[Kat]

I guess the issue is - what is horses just being horses and what is horses being uncomfortable. I do think it’s fairly clear when they are uncomfortable and that is both physically and mentally. Also how long that mental discomfort might be with something like the prize giving which is short term in grand scheme of things.

I think there is a school of thought developing that a horse shows discomfort by bucking/rearing etc and that if the horse doesn't do those things it must be happy. This enables riders of shut down miserable uncomfortable horses (the sort seen on some Instagram accounts) to believe they are morally superior to the likes of Laura Collett or Marcus Ehning or any other pro riding a horse who throws a few shapes.

 

[Rowreach]

I don't comment on those Facebook posts but I do sometimes go ???? at them, and wonder if anyone has actually thought before they posted. The Lynn Russell one, well she got what she deserved imo, and I don't think it's wrong that people question what happens in pro yards at all. Last week a well known trainer put up a pic of a line of made up feeds with yummy carrots in them - in the most disgustingly filthy encrusted feed buckets. I was horrified, and I'd I was an owner I'd have been incandescent. I remember seeing a programme about an Olympic dressage rider who everyone loves, and the cameras went into the stables and clearly showed the filthy feed mangers and I thought ffs would you not at least clean them before filming, even if your stable management is normally so woeful you don't bother?

 

[Rowreach]

Wrt horses throwing shapes, all I will say is hunters/autumn/stubble fields ?

 

[scruffyponies]

The whole idea of social licence fails when the people with power of judge and jury have no experience or knowledge with which to judge.
Social media is the perfect weapon of intolerance and ignorance.

 

[ponynutz]

I'm currently at a top competition yard where everything gets ridden in draw reins. Including the staff horses, most of which aren't hot ,super athletic horses. But it seems almost by default that everything gets put into draw reins.
I'd rather teach the horse to reach into the bridle - and mine can go with his nose out a bit , I'm not using draw reins on him.
It seems like it's just a short cut - it's not like a world class rider can't ride without draw reins, but this is setting up a poor example to the working pupils IMO.

I've had some big rows about draw reins. People can't cope with the fact that any aid is dangerous in the wrong hands, it's about how you use it. Most assume it's abuse and dig their heels in.

 

[ponynutz]

I guess the issue is - what is horses just being horses and what is horses being uncomfortable. I do think it’s fairly clear when they are uncomfortable and that is both physically and mentally. Also how long that mental discomfort might be with something like the prize giving which is short term in grand scheme of things.

Horses are masters of putting up with it is the problem. I take the view of looking at their body language while they're throwing their shapes. An excited or fresh horse bucking is completely different to one trying to get pain away.

 

[sportsmansB]

I think a lot of the people commenting are not used to seeing or dealing with fit competition horses, and indeed maybe the type of horse they are used to DOES buck going into canter because its back is sore or whatever. Fit event horses squealing and throwing a few shapes over their first few fences of the year is entirely expected, and I bet Laura would worry there was something wrong with London if he DIDN'T do that (and would get full vet investigations done immediately!)

My own horse is super quiet for an event horse, but at the moment with limited turnout and increasing fitness he also throws a shape or two going into canter the first time if I have missed a day and he has only been out for a few hours the day before, hacked or on the walker. Hes not dying and he has a really lovely life, hes just fresh and likes going faster. I either fall off or deal with it.

 

[humblepie]

I don't comment on those Facebook posts but I do sometimes go ???? at them, and wonder if anyone has actually thought before they posted. The Lynn Russell one, well she got what she deserved imo, and I don't think it's wrong that people question what happens in pro yards at all. Last week a well known trainer put up a pic of a line of made up feeds with yummy carrots in them - in the most disgustingly filthy encrusted feed buckets. I was horrified, and I'd I was an owner I'd have been incandescent. I remember seeing a programme about an Olympic dressage rider who everyone loves, and the cameras went into the stables and clearly showed the filthy feed mangers and I thought ffs would you not at least clean them before filming, even if your stable management is normally so woeful you don't bother?

Not recently but I have seen in the past some posts which would totally put me off ever having a horse with them (not that likely to be in a position to do so). Generally nothing to do with riding but either horse or personal management seriously lacking professionalism.

 

[scats]

I think the issue is that most of us, particularly those who have been around horses long enough, recognise the difference between a horse having a bronc and a leap because of freshness and hi-jinx, and one having a bronc because of discomfort or a pain response.

The trouble is, those in that category can see it for what it is, but there’s two other categories. The less experienced, or those unable to recognise the indicators that point to it being something more, who automatically assume the horse is in pain. Then there are also those who will excuse their own horses broncing/behavioural issues along the lines of ‘oh that’s what mine does, he’s obviously just fresh and needs more work/riding through it’ like that horse does. This category definitely exists because we see so many awful videos on SM of horses bucking, rearing, napping and screaming pain and riders ignoring them, giving them a smack, kicking their ribs in…

The problem with social media posts put out by pros is that varying levels of experience, and the moral undercode of each recipient, means it will inevitably be translated in very different ways.

 

[RachelFerd]

I think overall it's sort of a positive thing - we're rapidly moving from the 'SEU' horror page of things meant to be 'funny' that generally look awful, to people actually trying to speak up for the horse. It's just that they don't know that much and are speaking up for the wrong horses. It's changing pretty quickly, but it's not a bad thing. I think just more education required in how to spot a horse that's genuinely having fun - and imitating the play and fun behaviour they have out in the field with their mates, vs spotting uncomfortable pain related signs.

 

[NinjaPony]

A very fit competition horse is a different beast to the type of horses most of us ride… I ride a 17.2hh warmblood in my lessons, and he is a real sweet heart and very well behaved. But he’s a different type of horse to my former horse, he is built uphill and has huge paces and power. If he decided to throw a few shapes, I’d probably be on the floor. There is a real sense of controlled power in the top athletes and it sounds like London 52 is naturally exuberant.

That said, it’s been shown over and over again that pros shouldn’t be put on a pedestal just because they are pros. Social media opens you up to criticism, both invalid and valid. The danger of course is that it’s just a snapshot.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Christ they should have seen Faran yesterday at his saddle fitting, he was rodeoing around in the lunge thoroughly enjoying himself ??? Even the fitter was like wow ??? he’s young freshly full clipped and it was chilly ??? he’s in no way a fit competition horse and he was having a whale of a time to himself with the new saddle ???

 

[Sossigpoker]

I've had some big rows about draw reins. People can't cope with the fact that any aid is dangerous in the wrong hands, it's about how you use it. Most assume it's abuse and dig their heels in.

Ive got no problem with most gadgets if used for a purpose. But to use draw reins by default on everything? And all the working pupils ride in them too. What is that teaching them and their horses?
At least one of the pupils' horses throws his head because he's lame behind- so it goes in draw reins.
That's abuse.

 

[dorsetladette]

I feel this sort of thing will mean us 'normal' horse owners will not have anything relatable from the pro's to make us feel better about our bad days. That's when youngsters (people not horses) will start feeling like they are no good because their horse isn't 100% foot perfect like their idols or hero's. Mental health of some individuals could really suffer.

Lets face it. None of us have learnt to have a good seat and stickability by riding foot perfect horses.

 

[Boughtabay]

social media is so polarising & people play into that to grow huge followings that create an echo chamber. Be that “all horses who aren’t trotting like robots are in pain” or “my horse who bucks over every single jump is just a cheeky boy!”. Alternative viewpoints are shouted down or deleted.

I am always quite shocked what people will confidently comment in public and display their ignorance to the world - but that goes for all SM not just horses ?

 

[Burnttoast]

Not knowing what they're looking at isn't confined to the non-horsey or the inexperienced. There's enough research out there now to indicate how many horses are putting up with poor saddle/tack fit and lameness, and they aren't all owned by novices. Plenty of people are still happy to close their eyes to things their horses are trying to tell them, or just would rather not listen for whatever reason. Even vets do it. So if people are starting to question that's not a bad thing, and there are now better resources out there to educate people about what they are seeing.

 

[ponynutz]

Ive got no problem with most gadgets if used for a purpose. But to use draw reins by default on everything? And all the working pupils ride in them too. What is that teaching them and their horses?
At least one of the pupils' horses throws his head because he's lame behind- so it goes in draw reins.
That's abuse.

I didn't read that part, just saw the draw rein argument came up!
If that's the case agreed with you.

 

[sbloom]

Our bar as to what is healthy, and good for horses, our understanding of their nature and their needs, is shifting massively. This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber, my views have changed hugely over 14 years working as a professional in the industry. We ignore this at our peril.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I didn't read that part, just saw the draw rein argument came up!
If that's the case agreed with you.

Most of the horses go on the walker in draw reins too! It's ridiculous.

 

[Dexter]

Our bar as to what is healthy, and good for horses, our understanding of their nature and their needs, is shifting massively. This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber, my views have changed hugely over 14 years working as a professional in the industry. We ignore this at our peril.

I don't think people are aware of the issues heading our way. The banning of hunting, which gets closer every single day, is just the very tip of the iceberg. There are content happy horses competing and hacking, but there are many with not quite right tack, too heavy a rider, niggling soundness issues. I've seen posts on here from people justifying being 18 stone and still riding, justifying a saddle not being right or a horse being "stiff".

Is that ok? In a lot of cases, I don't think so, and I am pro-riding and moderate in my thoughts. There are lots of people who aren't. We, as in the generic we, need to clean up our act. Make sure that everything we do has horse welfare first, and that we stop justifying doing what we want to do when its not in the best interest of the horse.

 

[Burnttoast]

The irony is that non-horsey people might look at horse sport and be turned off by whips, spurs, people punching live horses or sitting on dead ones, but they don't (yet) know the manifold ways in which the things we (I don't ride anymore but did for many years) do with horses impact on their welfare in minor and less minor ways, in terms of their physical and mental wellbeing. If they knew about those things they'd probably be even less impressed. There are so many things any of us could list - not enough or no turnout, not enough or no contact with other horses, unable to find a decent saddle/bridle/bit fitter, unexamined separation anxiety, poor/inconsistent training, the impact of inappropriate feeding or bad farriery, etc etc. All are seen regularly enough to be deemed normal, even acceptable, in many quarters of the horse world but I don't suppose any non-horsey person who likes animals and dislikes the sight of a jockey using the whip on the run-in has even factored those in.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I haven't seen the videos, but for every happy cheerful horse bouncing about going 'wahaay, party time at last!' there are more that are bouncing about misbehaving because they are in pain.

Patronise those who you perceive as less knowledgable as yourselves at your collective peril.

 

[Miss_Millie]

For all of this talk of 'ignorant keyboard warriors', I actually think that a lot of non-horsey people are more likely to see cruelty and pain for what it is than people who have been brought up with horses and have 'always done it this way'.

I have also observed that novice riders/owners tend to be more open minded and reflective, than some riders who have owned horses for 40+ years and think that they know everything/ that their way is the only way.

 

[LEC]

Our bar as to what is healthy, and good for horses, our understanding of their nature and their needs, is shifting massively. This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber, my views have changed hugely over 14 years working as a professional in the industry. We ignore this at our peril.

I have shifted so much of what I do from last 6 years. i guess you need to know better to do better. I guess it’s Balancing where genuine concern should be and educating people