LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Better get my pen and paper out!
Social Licence vs Opinion
- Thread starter LEC
- Start date
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Essentially every horse is lame … shall we now have a look at the riders ? How many of them are sound? Should we stop anyone who cant get through a army medical going to the gym or for a walk in the country…? The point is not many horses are sound, truly truly sound and not many people , dogs (god only knows about cats) but our answer to lame horses always seems to be rest but as a human medical doctor rest is almost never the answer and indeed except in very acute injuries tends to make things worse… i get that the perception of rest for the lame horse is better but the reality is probably the opposite… that doesnt mean badminton or jumping 130 but if you dont use it you lose it so losing muscle and fitness rarely improves a situation.
In the 70s and 80s the treatment for a bad back was to lie flat in bed and rest for months … and what that caused was you to have a permanently bad back … social licence is all very well but not to the detriment of our animals
In the 70s and 80s the treatment for a bad back was to lie flat in bed and rest for months … and what that caused was you to have a permanently bad back … social licence is all very well but not to the detriment of our animals
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think the problem with horses is that we sit on their backs, and I do find myself increasingly questioning what right we have to do that, especially if not many of them are truly sound.
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blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Do you ever carry a backpack? Are you ever truly sound? I personally think we treat people far worse than we treat our pet horses
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
We have a choice, though. I think we have a far higher duty of care to an animal who has no choice.
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blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
I would disagree that people necessarily have a choice
stangs
Well-Known Member
What is this - a suffering contest?
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
No but im not sure our horses are suffering
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
At what point would you, personally, say they are?
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
It depends what you mean by suffering… most of our leisure horses do a couple of hours work maybe 5 or 6 hours work a week - a lot do less. Do i think they like being ridden? I don’t know, but I personally think its probably not their favourite thing but they dont hate it… i dont really think they have the capacity to hate in the human think if the word. Do i think they feel some discomfort? Yes probably sometimes, we’ve all had a backpack strap dig in and shifted it a bit which they don’t have the capacity/ ability to do… etc etc and sometimes I think they are genuinely in pain or seriously uncomfortable and yes this should be avoided but saying any animals life can be free of discomfort is simply unobtainable unless you shoot it now… i personally feel that a horse living a grass free life is not optimal for its well being but people will argue its good for their health - i know all my horses love grass so is depriving them for their health not inducing suffering? I know my cob is distressed by not eating 24/7 but that is also not great for his health so i dont let him - I guess i object on some level to the idea that these animals who we spend hours cleaning up after, grooming, getting physios to, vets to etc etc are the ones that are suffering cos we make them do a couple of hours exercise a week carrying some weights … which is apparently a bad thing when we are encouraging humans to do exactly the same thing for the good of their health on top of 40 hours or more work… without the physio and medical backup …it feels like a construct of an over privileged society and not reality.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Btw the video didn’t talk about behaviours 7, 15, 16, 18,19 and 21 if anyone knows what they are
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
sbloom
Well-Known Member
As a saddle fitter who sees hundreds a year, yes they are. You are defining suffering as something that looks like pain, lameness, extreme behavioural issues (ie obvious enough for most riders to see)....yet lower grade issues are ignored day in day out, we ill prepare our horses to be ridden, we inject them to keep them going without looking to underlying causes. We fail to appreciate the links between brain and body, that pain causes horses to be defensive, but equally we can shut them down with our training so that they no longer tell us they are in pain, confused or are defensive. We say we love our horses but we have a low bar for how that manifests in our management and training of them.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
Whenever I meet a horse that is difficult to tack up or girth, my thought now is ‘what’s wrong?’ rather than ‘stop being naughty’. I often find a gentler, quieter approach helps, but 9 times out of 10 there is a very good reason a horse acts like that. I’ve definitely learnt a lot from this forum, and when the time comes to get another ridden horse I’ll be very aware of these small pain signs. People used to think I was ridiculous or much too soft on my old boy because I wouldn’t trot him on hard ground, had the saddle checked twice a year, got his hocks x rayed just because he felt a little ‘off’, etc etc. But I’m glad I did because he always behaved beautifully and I’m hoping that some of it was because he wasn’t being asked to work through pain. At least I hope.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
So much this.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
This is part of why I stopped riding. I've ridden for other people or, latterly, shared for most of my life and these signs, often quite subtle, are rife among horses in work and supposedly healthy. Since I'm rarely in a position to make the necessary investigations I just don't ride anymore.