Something is definitely not right here/Who can I Trust

[PinkvSantaboots]

This.

Laminitis is hell. Some recover, many don't.

Last year, sadly we had my daughter's pony PTS because of it. We did everything by the book, she was on Prascend and Metformin, her bloods were all normal and she'd been off grass for months.

But it kept coming back no matter what we did and we couldn't see her in pain any more.

I get that you're angry and upset, but Vets don't recommend PTS unless they truly believe its in the horse's best interests.

This sounds like what happened to my friends Arab he was 20 on 2 prascend a day and restricted grazing and still got laminitis and he just wouldn't stop lying down so he was pts, sometimes the prascend will not work for them and then there is nothing you can do very sad

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Laminitis is my biggest fear with horses I've 2 go down with it my last one was in 2015, I had 3 months nursing Grace with it it was absolute hell I never want to go through that again, she was at home and I literally lived and breathed that horse the whole time she had it and it felt like I never got any relief because she was at home.

If one of my horses got it now I'm not sure I could re live it again I would seriously struggle seeing another suffer with it and having to see it everyday is soul destroying.

I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[maya2008]

Are the insulin levels normal again now on the drug you are using? If not, have you tried Ertugliflozin? Saved our Shetland (for now at least). She was lame on a mostly straw diet, all protocols followed, x-rays not matching lameness. She perked up within days and her insulin levels dropped to normal range. She’s now coming slowly off it and it’s like she’s 10 years younger, cheeky, alert, happy and sound.

 

[Smogul]

2 months ago my 18 year old horse Suddenly came down with acute laminitis. He had, had a great life on a field prior, with the care of my friends and family.

After following vets advice box rest. I placed him on full livery at a long established livery yard. As I work f/t.

He has has now been stuck in a box for 2 months. Now his pedal bone has rotated to 7 degrees. He has lost weight. Apparently had med's given, correct bedding and hay soaked.
A week ago the initial vet that wanted to put him down said she was "Happy with his Improvement". Yesterday he deteriorated. Even though everything has apparently been done correctly.

Why did he suddenly deteriorate?

Of course he is "stuck in a box". Horses with laminitis should not be moving around. Our very competent caring vet said we had done everything possible for our Shetland, her management was ideal and she still had to be put down. She deteriorated suddenly and her life had become intolerable.

 

[Birker2020]

Sadly laminitis often ends in euthanasia. When deciding what to do for the best, you (one) have to consider what the horse's life will be like if he ever does come right
. Will he be able to eat grass/spend time in a field with friends?
If the vet is talking about euthanasia, you should consider it. Vetsxrarely do recommend pts, they may try to lead the inner in that direction but are rarely clear about it.

After being through this recently with my friend and holding her horse for him to be pts I agree with these comments PAS. Sometimes 'save all' is not the best approach, consideration needs to be made for future lifestyle.

When a horse needs to be on box rest for months with a rubbish prognosis, the real chance it could founder due to its size and weight and already compromised with a foot condition (which meant my friend had never even sat on him although that had no bearing on her keeping him in retirement for the years she did) I whole heartedly supported her. The horse was given a few days to see how he reacted or improved as she couldn't make the call. He was supported with a decent bed and strong painkillers but towards the end it was evident he was declining.

Others may disagree, and that is fine. But she asked her vets opinion and mine honestly and she got the answer. It may not have been the one she wanted but she did it because she knew in her heart it wasn't fair to keep him going.

I think you should get xrays as a minimum and go from there.

 

[ester]

OP seems to have disappeared anyway

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

After being through this recently with my friend and holding her horse for him to be pts I agree with these comments PAS. Sometimes 'save all' is not the best approach, consideration needs to be made for future lifestyle.

When a horse needs to be on box rest for months with a rubbish prognosis, the real chance it could founder due to its size and weight and already compromised with a foot condition (which meant my friend had never even sat on him although that had no bearing on her keeping him in retirement for the years she did) I whole heartedly supported her. The horse was given a few days to see how he reacted or improved as she couldn't make the call. He was supported with a decent bed and strong painkillers but towards the end it was evident he was declining.

Others may disagree, and that is fine. But she asked her vets opinion and mine honestly and she got the answer. It may not have been the one she wanted but she did it because she knew in her heart it wasn't fair to keep him going.

I think you should get xrays as a minimum and go from there.

Unfortunately when we bring any animal whose life expectancy is shorter than that of a human, we have to be prepared to make the responsible decision. Imo anyone who unable to do that really shouldn't have animals.
It is a horrible decision and emotionally draining but a responsible owner will make it in the animal's best interest when long term quality of life is compromised. The animal comes first.

 

[Red-1]

OP seems to have disappeared anyway

I guess some replies are hard to read.

It is a long slog that is for sure. Rigs had already been on 3 months box rest when I bought him but it was hard to hear from the vet that he would need 12 months off grass. The hay soaking was a pain. It cost about 10K to change the stables to allow indoor/outdoor living, his choice, and the arena took his rather large feet hard before that.

It worked out well for him, now on haylage and grass when muzzled, but it sounds like OP is limited in options in their normal place to keep a horse, and it may be hard to hear that full livery may be required for a long period of time, possibly forever.

It is also hard to think that, whatever you do, the horse may not recover.

Even BH, who started to get a bit portly this spring, despite being worked daily, is turned out with a muzzle for only 6-8 hours and has the indoor/outdoor stable arrangement after that. He's never had lami, but having seen Rigs I don't want to take chances. My easy keeper summers of old, with 24/7 turnout, seem to be over. I don't know why it is different, when I was a kid, all horses were out 24/7 in summer and I only knew one get lami. I now have 2 on restricted, muzzled grazing and thankfully a dry lot space for them to hang out.

 

[Mayday23]

He has EMS and I've recently found out the vet has stopped the Invokana. Why?

All the bills have been paid

All English RVC talk about is euthanasia where as in America they cure them. His coffin bone has dropped 7 degrees.

So what would you do next if it was your horse?

 

[AmyMay]

He has EMS and I've recently found out the vet has stopped the Invokana. Why?

All the bills have been paid

All English RVC talk about is euthanasia where as in America they cure them. His coffin bone has dropped 7 degrees.

So what would you do next if it was your horse?

Actually in America, they don’t.

I’m really sorry OP, your responses are getting ridiculous.

If it were mine, with what you’ve already posted - the horse would be put down.

 

[Lexi 123]

He has EMS and I've recently found out the vet has stopped the Invokana. Why?

All the bills have been paid

All English RVC talk about is euthanasia where as in America they cure them. His coffin bone has dropped 7 degrees.

So what would you do next if it was your horse?

In the USA they don’t cure them they dump them in actions for slaughter or enthusiastic them humanity. If you being recommended to pts by a vet you should consider it. Not all horse can recover unfortunately some horse no Matter what you do it just gets that bad you can’t do anything.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would pts immediately
Were you not warned when you got the EMS diagnosis to avoid laminitis at all costs?

 

[ycbm]

All English RVC talk about is euthanasia where as in America they cure them.

Where on earth do you get that idea?

His coffin bone has dropped 7 degrees.

So what would you do next if it was your horse?

Put him to sleep as that is what your vet is trying to advise you.

Are you prepared to watch as his pedal bones puncture his soles? Because that's what's coming, by the sounds of it. He needs you to be strong for him and let him go with some dignity.

.

 

[ycbm]

PSD I hope this doesn't upset you but this poster needs to learn from your experience.

Mayday please read this thread from start to finish. A brave and caring owner fought the battle you are in, lost that battle, and did the right thing for her horse.

Laminitis with no improvement

My mare came down with laminitis just before the new year. My vet suggested it was a torn DDFT however she worsened gradually and the vet finally agreed to x ray her 2 weeks later. They found she had slight rotation in both fronts but enough toe to take off to correct this, the farrier was...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[Mayday23]

I don't find any of your answers helpful.

Why be so Nasty and Negative. It has definitely affected my horse on the livery yard. He is now STRESSED.

The YO and YM are always looking for a drama/performance.


Saddo's that don't really have a lot going on.

If you need that get a Professional Job.

Actually in America, they don’t.

I’m really sorry OP, your responses are getting ridiculous.

If it were mine, with what you’ve already posted - the horse would be put down.

Where on earth do you get that idea?





Put him to sleep as that is what your vet is trying to advise you.

Are you prepared to watch as his pedal bones puncture his soles? Because that's what's coming, by the sounds of it. He needs you to be strong for him and let him go with some dignity.

.

PSD I hope this doesn't upset you but this poster needs to learn from your experience.

Mayday please read this thread from start to finish. A brave and caring owner fought the battle you are in, lost that battle, and did the right thing for her horse.

Laminitis with no improvement

My mare came down with laminitis just before the new year. My vet suggested it was a torn DDFT however she worsened gradually and the vet finally agreed to x ray her 2 weeks later. They found she had slight rotation in both fronts but enough toe to take off to correct this, the farrier was...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[Mayday23]

Well for starters ycbm

Einstein wouldn't be proud of you.

Your an embarrassement to horses and my horse

 

[splashgirl45]

Your horse is stressed because he is in pain, you have said the pedal bone has rotated , he needs you to be strong and do the right thing for him. If he is as bad as you say he can’t move somewhere else so you need to make the best of where you are and if not happy with the vet, get another one for a second opinion. Vets don’t say PTS in this country contrary to what you think. They are usually very careful to give an owner the honest situation and leave it to the owner to decide. All the time you are getting angry on here will not help your horse

 

[Red-1]

Did he have EMS before the lami outbreak?

 

[ycbm]

I don't find any of your answers helpful.

Why be so Nasty and Negative. It has definitely affected my horse on the livery yard. He is now STRESSED.

The YO and YM are always looking for a drama/performance.


Saddo's that don't really have a lot going on.

If you need that get a Professional Job.

Nobody is being nasty and what you interpret as being negative is simply realism I'm afraid.

The fact we haven't given you the answers you wanted has affected your horse?

Sadly, I am beginning to wonder if this is a troll thread. If not then I'm afraid you're in denial and I can only hope that you come out of that in time to save your horse from further pain he doesn't need to suffer.

 

[AmyMay]

Well for starters ycbm

Einstein wouldn't be proud of you.

Your an embarrassement to horses and my horse

Unfortunately there’s only one person looking for drama. And sadly that’s you.

You’ve received some very well rounded and sympathetic responses on this thread. Ignore them by all means, but don’t insult members in the process.

 

[meleeka]

I’m not sure why you posted OP if you don’t want opinions or advice.

 

[ycbm]

Well for starters ycbm

Einstein wouldn't be proud of you.

Your an embarrassement to horses and my horse

And now I'm really thinking you're a troll.

The reference to Einstein is this quote, which refers to me buying another horse when i know how many horses fall to make old bones no matter what their owners do to try and make that happen, after losing an 8 year old this year.


You might do well to listen to it.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[splashgirl45]

Well for starters ycbm

Einstein wouldn't be proud of you.

Your an embarrassement to horses and my horse

YCBM has more horse knowledge than many on here and has recently been through the loss of her own cherished horse. Your remarks are uncalled for when all everyone on here is trying to do is help you.

Please leave this thread and concentrate on the well being of your horse and I really hope you can get him out of pain either by the correct treatment or PTS

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Whether you are a genuine poster or a troll, there are several very experienced posters giving you sound advice pertinent to a horse with severe laminitis, which other genuine posters may find useful. Laminitis can be a dreadfully painful condition, dragging it out when the vet has already suggested pts is a welfare issue.

 

[Mayday23]

I'm Just Amazed at the replies.


Nothing positive, forward thinking. Can't qiote believe it.But your are what you are.

 

[moosea]

I don't find any of your answers helpful.

Why be so Nasty and Negative. It has definitely affected my horse on the livery yard. He is now STRESSED.

The YO and YM are always looking for a drama/performance.


Saddo's that don't really have a lot going on.

If you need that get a Professional Job.

Hi Mayday,

The usual protocall on discovering or suspecting a horse is laminitic is to remove all access to grazing and confine to a stable at all times. The stable should have deep thick bedding, usually of shavings. This is to help support the foot. The vet should then be called. Laminitis is considered an emergency, on the same sort of level as a broken leg or colic.

The vet will usually x ray, and I pressume this has been done with your horse more than once as you know the degree of rotation. Treatment, if reccommended can include bandaging, drugs, dietary changes, farrier intervention. Your vet may use one or many of these or other treatment options based on your horse.

How much do you know about laminitis? Because even a basic knowledge can help you to understand how the condition impacts your horse, future implications on your horses ongoing treatment and potential to make a good recovery.

7% rotation sounds quite a lot to me.

Your horse is probably quite stressed due to pain and being indoors with controled calorie intake. You should consider how long your horses recovery will be and how he would cope with that when considering your decision.
As your vet is suggesting pts then I would get a second opinion as soon as possible.

 

[Mayday23]

Thanks you for your reply

 

[ester]

You've yet to answer any of the important questions that people have put to you for more info. A 7 degree rotation isn't unsolvable but the horse's comfort is paramount and you've not even said what the hoof care regime is/who is doing it/what is currently in place for said horse to be comfortable. Which is weird when you appear to be trying to blame everyone else except your HCP.

 

[meleeka]

I'm Just Amazed at the replies.


Nothing positive, forward thinking. Can't qiote believe it.But your are what you are.

Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of positives when dealing with laminitis. You asked how it could happen that a horse seems be recovering, only to go downhill again for no reason and several posters have said that it does happen sometimes. You don’t want to hear that because you want to blame someone. If the vet is talking about pts being the kindest thing, then it’s not a case of changing management and the horse will suddenly be ok. It just doesn’t work like that. Unless you can stop the cause, you have no chance and sometimes the root cause just can’t be found. Even if you do find the cause and stop the laminitis, you’ve got many months of remedial trimming to get the horse comfortable. That’s why some people pts, because it’s kinder than prolonging the suffering.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Why were you not informed about the vet stopping the drugs?

Oh yes because you left that job to your yo why don't you start to take some responsibility and look after your own horse and stop blaming everyone else.

If your not happy with your current vet get another one.

You have to look at the bigger picture that is quite a lot of rotation.

How long will recovery be

What sort of quality of life will the horse have

No one has been nasty we are just being realistic because unfortunately we have been through this horror, believe me I didn't give up easily and was positive about my horses recovery both times.