Something is definitely not right here/Who can I Trust

[Highmileagecob]

Very sadly, once EMS or Cushings is involved, laminitis is all too often the last stage of the disease. Pain levels become uncontrollable, the horse has great difficulty in rising, up to the point where he can't get up any more, and the laminitis progresses despite everything you can throw at it. I have been there. 14.2 Arab on six danilon a day, hoof boots, gel pads, heart bar shoes, box rest for over two months, and finally Cushings levels over 700, Pracend as a last resort......no response at all. He went down in his box and couldn't get up and was put to sleep humanely. It broke my heart. No one likes to accept that some things are incurable, but please take a balanced view and actually look if your horse is deteriorating despite treatment.

 

[MurphysMinder]

He has EMS and I've recently found out the vet has stopped the Invokana. Why?

All the bills have been paid

All English RVC talk about is euthanasia where as in America they cure them. His coffin bone has dropped 7 degrees.

So what would you do next if it was your horse?

In my experience UK vets will only mention pts when it is absolutely in the horses best interest. I won't argue that maybe more treatment is carried out in the USA (not always in the horses best interest imo) but that is because American owners don't complain about vets fees in the same way because they are used to paying for their own healthcare.
If your vet is talking about pts I would seriously consider it. I have had a pony who had Cushings for 16 years, several episodes of lami despite Prascend which did entail box rest. As she got older and stiffer box rest was no longer an option so she was pts when she had a serious flare up a couple of years ago.
I'm not sure why you are so distanced from your horses care, just because you work/he is on full livery surely doesn't mean you can't visit him regularly. You have asked for advice and then been rude to those who have offered it, part of me is wondering why I am even bothering typing out this.

 

[meleeka]

I'm not sure why you are so distanced from your horses care, just because you work/he is on full livery surely doesn't mean you can't visit him regularly.

I also wondered this, but assumed OP was in another country where it’s more usual. Have you spoken to the vet regarding stopping the meds yourself OP? I don’t think it would be unreasonable for an owner to want to speak to the vet directly with any concerns.

 

[fankino04]

I'm Just Amazed at the replies.


Nothing positive, forward thinking. Can't qiote believe it.But your are what you are.

The replies have simply said that unfortunately in many cases laminitis cant be cured, it is a painful condition that is giving the horse a cr*p life and that when vets suggest pts that that is probably because it is the fairest / kindest thing you can do at this point. Alternative opinions have been that if you don't trust YO or vet then go somewhere else, get another vet and see if there is an alternative, if you choose the 2nd option you need to do it quickly to avoid your horses prolonged suffering and be prepared to say if no better I 2 weeks then pts or if 2nd vet says it's too bad then for God's sake listen to the professionals and do the right thing for the horse. No one is saying this to be unkind or create drama they are simply trying to get you to help your horse ( even if that isn't the help you want to give, it may well be the help they need)

 

[Mayday23]

Even if the yard did everything correctly the laminae have been weakened and it can take time for the pedal bone to drop - it's why vets like to have regular X rays

Same happened with a little welshie on my old yard. Hers was initially grass related but she was on box rest for months with an unstable pedal bone - fortunately she had decent sole depth.

Did anything happen yesterday which could have caused the deterioration? Stress?

 

[Birker2020]

Mayday how is your horse today?
Anything else from the vet in terms of prognosis?

Sorry you are going through this, it's s**t I know. We all care even if you think we are trying to be negative x

 

[Mayday23]

The title 'who can you trust?' what are you concerns, the vet or the livery not looking after him. That's why I asked the question earlier, have you visited the horse and been there with the vet?

T

 

[Red-1]

I'm Just Amazed at the replies.


Nothing positive, forward thinking. Can't qiote believe it.But your are what you are.

On the contrary, I am very positive, having knowingly and willingly purchased a horse finishing box rest for lami. I read up on it, had long consultations with the vet, formulated a plan and followed it. It can be improved, God willing, and with careful management. The God willing part is important as sometimes nothing can be done, whatever management is given. When I bought Rigs I took the risk that he'd revert, or be permanently EMS, or cushings, or whatever.

My surprise has been at your negativity towards those who are fighting day in and out for your horse, following all the protocols. I can't understand why you are blaming them. when the horse was already in dire straits before it got to them. To me, it is you who is being negative towards the very people who are helping the horse to the best of their ability, by all accounts.

I am inclined to think this is a troll post.

 

[Hollylee1989]

Trying to be supportive here, but has anything happened such as stress/boxwalking? Personal experience from 12 years ago, our family horse had a torn suspensory. 3 months into box rest it was healing well, then suddenly his fetlock dropped and had to make the heartbreaking decision. We had no idea how or why it suddenly went so wrong, but it sadly did.
If your horse is uncomfortable and not improving, I'd personally call it a day. It's the last act of kindness we can give to them. Sorry you're going through this

 

[Birker2020]

T

Mayday can you answer the questions?

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Thanks Guys for your support so far with this thread.

He has been diagnosed with EMS and the vet put him on Invokana which he was responding well too.

The vet and YM just seem to work together and find themselves correct. It's one of those places where they have monthly visits from this practice where you pay nothing. So there in with each other. I'd move him but hes become really lame again and the YM is a Psycho. I've given her the benefit of the doubt but enough is enough.......She has 57 years experience and keep getting it wrong. WTF?

He has apparently not been out of his stable, been having his meds and hay soaked. The vet is Useless all she talks about is euthanasia. Nothing positive, maintaining the horses life. Then she Lords it about thinking she is GOD.

The point is his pedal bone shouldn't have rotated and it has. After improvement its rotated.

I asked the vet about it this weekend and all I got was "Well it can happen" but why???

I need to get him the hell out of there. For his LIFE.

Mayday if this thread is genuine I am extremely sorry that you are now dealing with a very likely end of life decision for your horse. Vets do not routinely suggest PTS without extreme caution and extensive knowledge and judgement regarding the animals unlikely recovery and continued suffering. It is very very difficult and soul destroying when one has to deal with this relatively common scenario in older horses.

Many of us on this forum have unfortunately been in this situation over the years, and for some of us more than once. Some of those have been kind enough to offer their opinion and own experiences to help you to calm down and take on board what your professionals are telling you and for the sake of your horse make the right call, preferably sooner than later.

The tone of your posts is accusatory, overly dramatic and shows complete lack of understanding about your horse's health, why it has now worsened and the likelihood of further suffering and distress to both you and your horse. It is also extremely rude to other posters who have tried to help you.

I don't think any further comments will be of use to you, my suggestion is you read through this thread, calm down, stop looking for someone to blame, when it is an unfortunate and sadly common progression of this disease. Then just get on and do what needs to be done.

 

[Birker2020]

Mayday if this thread is genuine I am extremely sorry that you are now dealing with a very likely end of life decision for your horse. Vets do not routinely suggest PTS without extreme caution and extensive knowledge and judgement regarding the animals unlikely recovery and continued suffering. It is very very difficult and soul destroying when one has to deal with this relatively common scenario in older horses.

Many of us on this forum have unfortunately been in this situation over the years, and for some of us more than once. Some of those have been kind enough to offer their opinion and own experiences to help you to calm down and take on board what your professionals are telling you and for the sake of your horse make the right call, preferably sooner than later.

The tone of your posts is accusatory, overly dramatic and shows complete lack of understanding about your horse's health, why it has now worsened and the likelihood of further suffering and distress to both you and your horse. It is also extremely rude to other posters who have tried to help you.

I don't think any further comments will be of use to you, my suggestion is you read through this thread, calm down, stop looking for someone to blame, when it is an unfortunate and sadly common progression of this disease. Then just get on and do what needs to be done.

I agree. I think she is very upset and has taken things the wrong way.
If your vet is suggesting pts then I would do so, it is not fair to let an animal suffer and longer than it takes to make a decision and know you have done all you can and now have reached the end of the road.

When someone on here told me that I wasn't ready to hear about my previous horse being pts I was totally aghast at their suggestion. But I freely admit that they were right, I wasn't ready. I hadn't quite got to that point. But when I had I did so and have never regretted my decision.

Big hugs, I feel nothing but sympathy. x

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Mine was a week away from having his saddle refitted after 6 months box rest.

He kicked the crap out of his stable door and his pedal bone just dropped and he went from sound to lame within 30minutes.

Lami is its own monster, you do your best but sometimes its not enough.