Spaniel Puppy Advice/Vent

[GrassChop]

As some of you know, my partner and I recently brought home a 4 month old Sprocker. It's having its ups and downs as expected but there are some points we are struggling with and it's making us question if this can work or not.

We love him to bits, he really is absolutely lovely.

Good points:
- Affectionate and cuddly
- Recall out on a walk is excellent
- Will sit, wait, leave and go to bed (most of the time, expected sometimes that this won't be mastered yet)
- Loyal; won't leave our sight on walks off lead, always stops at a certain distance to look back and wait without being asked

Bad points:
- Extremely attached and obsessed to the point he won't go to the garden for the toilet on his own or finish doing his business if one of us goes inside; he will end up coming inside to finish going because he has the need to be with us at all times. Our place isn't massive so trying to navigate anywhere is difficult as he's on top of you all the time, even if he was fast asleep, he will get up to follow. You wouldn't be able to do anything without him being in the way, not even to put your shoes on.
- Food obsessed, he is now jumping the kitchen stair gate to get to the cat food. We have no where else we can put this food as one of the cats can't jump as she has bad back legs, we have to shut him in the lounge while that one comes in to eat so we can open the gate (she's an outside cat by choice). We can get a taller gate with a cat door but we'd need two because he jumps the gate out the living room if we go out so we now need to close the door meaning the cats can't go in there if they wanted to as well. No room for a crate. He also managed to escape our garden to go into the neighbour's house when their door was open to steal their dog's food so even more money has been spent on extra fencing and the trust that he will recall when he smells food isn't there so we wouldn't be able to let him off the lead if there are picnics nearby for example.
- Not necessarily about him but the cats aren't getting braver, they barely come in and it's not fair on them. They only have one access point and they'd have to go passed him or be in the same room as him. Recall or listening to instructions at home isn't always great, definitely selective.
- He doesn't always listen and will bite (no growling) if he doesn't get his own way. Granted, puppy behaviour but still.

We are desperate to make this work, we've made so many adjustments, spent so much money but we are worried now that maybe our place and layout of it just isn't suitable for him. I feel he would be better in a big house where he's not restricted from rooms like the kitchen, bedrooms etc. Our hearts are breaking.

 

[Clodagh]

I will leave the training advice to the experts but I’m sorry you are struggling.
Is he crate trained?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

My best advice is to give it time. He is still finding out where your boundaries are and you are still finding out where they need to be. Be very clear about boundaries, stay outside with him while he is toileting and if hes getting in the way inside, givehim a jnstruction; sit/bed/whatever works best. He will probablygrow out of beibg so clingy as his confidence in his new home grows.
Can you get a stair gate that the cats can get through but the dog, especially as he grows, can't?

 

[CorvusCorax]

First of all, he is still a baby.
You've picked a mix of high energy breeds with the propensity for possession.
It is really important to occupy his brain and give him an outlet for all the energy - this is unlikely to be a low energy, sedentary pet dog in adulthood.
He needs to be taught how to cope being alone and it need to be built up in increments, they don't instinctively know how to do this. A crate or secure area he cannot jump out of will really help with this.
If he is obsessed with food, use food to train him and to make a positive association with being on his own for short periods.
If the recall is selective/conditional, you don't have recall - I would expect solid recall in a dog of that age anyway, or would expect it to go bye bye as he reaches maturity and his genetics come out.
I'm a bit confused as to the bit where he wants to be with you all the time, but is also happy to dick off next door for food?

 

[Hormonal Filly]

No room for a crate.

A crate will really help you/him out. I have 3 spaniels and the crate is their safe place, but helped so much training rest and space.

ETA second @CorvusCorax this is a high energy, working breed. On walks, do you do brain games such as finding the ball etc to mentally tire him out.

 

[GrassChop]

First of all, he is still a baby.
You've picked a mix of high energy breeds with the propensity for possession.
It is really important to occupy his brain and give him an outlet for all the energy - this is unlikely to be a low energy, sedentary pet dog in adulthood.
He needs to be taught how to cope being alone and it need to be built up in increments, they don't instinctively know how to do this. A crate or secure area he cannot jump out of will really help with this.
If he is obsessed with food, use food to train him and to make a positive association with being on his own for short periods.
If the recall is selective/conditional, you don't have recall - I would expect solid recall in a dog of that age anyway, or would expect it to go bye bye as he reaches maturity and his genetics come out.
I'm a bit confused as to the bit where he wants to be with you all the time, but is also happy to dick off next door for food?

He doesn't care about being with us when there is food involved.

 

[GrassChop]

A crate will really help you/him out. I have 3 spaniels and the crate is their safe place, but helped so much training rest and space.

I wish we could but we physically have no where to put one.

 

[CorvusCorax]

He doesn't care about being with us when there is food involved.

Then you harness the food drive and use it to your own advantage.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I wish we could but we physically have no where to put one.

Do you have a dining table, could you put a chair into the garage for crate space? Even in the kitchen against the units, with towels over it to make it feel 'safe'

 

[Hormonal Filly]

ETA second @CorvusCorax this is a high energy, working breed. On walks, do you do brain games such as finding the ball etc to mentally tire him out.

To add to this, you might find a gundog trainer really helpful even though he is young its the best time to start.

Spaniels are a lovely breed, but you need to be on top of them.

 

[Clodagh]

Spaniels are a serious hard work breed. There’s no down time or relaxation when with them, unless they are asleep. Decide now if you want a lifetime of training, training, training and work.

 

[JBM]

Food drive is actually a fab thing to have in a dog really helps in training
You could take him to a puppy class to help you teach him to focus on you while other pups are getting treats? A good trainer is worth it.
A puppy can be overwhelming at times and it’s nice to have the in person support

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Spaniels are a serious hard work breed. There’s no down time or relaxation when with them, unless they are asleep. Decide now if you want a lifetime of training, training, training and work.

Agree Clodagh, but I'm sure as you're aware they can be trained to have downtime and relax. When in the house ours 3 are all in their beds, asleep or chilling (even the 18 month old) but they've been conditioned to this from puppies. It is definitely hard work, no doubts.

I really do think a crate would help OP out massively.

 

[MissMay]

My high energy dog was ALOT of working needed a large volume of mental and physical activity by every member of the house until he was about 7.

It's not something that passes in 6 months or so.
You absolutely must teach boundaries now correct instantly when he steps out of line. He does what you ask when you ask. For eg my dogs get one chance to get out of the kitchen when I'm cooking there isn't the space. I ask once to go to bed ( as greedy terriers they cannot resist the chance of food droppong) and then they are put out in the garden.
Can you put a lunge line on him in the garden so it's secure? Or a roofed pen out there?
We had to re fence when ours were small as they were so tiny they could fit through any gap even the gaps in a stair gate

 

[Jenko109]

There must be somewhere for a crate.

 

[Clodagh]

Agree Clodagh, but I'm sure as you're aware they can be trained to have downtime and relax. When in the house ours 3 are all in their beds, asleep or chilling (even the 18 month old) but they've been conditioned to this from puppies. It is definitely hard work, no doubts.

I really do think a crate would help OP out massively.

I expect they can but I rehomed mine, before I lost the will to live. The second was a rescue and only a temp.
It’s just worth OP knowing that she’s never going to have a dog she can go for a relaxing ramble with, while looking at the view.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would find somewhere to put a crate they are invaluable. A spaniel-sized crate doesn't have to be enormous.

 

[GrassChop]

I would find somewhere to put a crate they are invaluable. A spaniel-sized crate doesn't have to be enormous.

We've tried to find somewhere for one to go but genuinely have no space. The kitchen is small and no where for one to go that wouldn't block the cupboards. Without changing our furniture completely, there is no where in the living room for one either.

 

[Spotherisk]

You really need to assess whether you can be the best owner for the pup. I’m aware that sounds brutal but being loosely involved with a rescue in Devon the amount of spaniels that come in is ridiculous - they are generally too ‘drivey’ and busy for their owners. Many go on to be Police Search dogs as they have a tireless approach to anything.

If you are the right owners, then great! Pup needs a crate, somehow.

What are your plans for the pup as it gets more adult - will it be beating, picking up? Agility, hoopers, scent work, KC Good Citizens etc? On line training is a good back up - have a look at the puppy section here. https://www.oneminddogs.com/online-puppy-training/

Edited to say - if you don’t have a crate where does the puppy sleep, where do you leave him when you go out, how do you safely travel him by car?

 

[GrassChop]

I expect they can but I rehomed mine, before I lost the will to live. The second was a rescue and only a temp.
It’s just worth OP knowing that she’s never going to have a dog she can go for a relaxing ramble with, while looking at the view.

We are losing the will to live really. When he's good, he's amazing but it's few and far between. He's caused an immense amount of stress and upset between us all.

 

[CorvusCorax]

OP, can I ask an honest question? Are you still in the Feelings stage or do you actively want Solutions? It's a mistake I often make on here because not everyone wants to hear the solutions yet and I don't really do feelings.
You've been given a couple already but you've just told us that they won't work.
To do this properly and install boundaries, there has to be a bit of a lifestyle adjustment and changing the way you think about management.
I live in a tiny bungalow with two large breed dogs. They have secure pens in the garage, they have airline crates in the kitchen. They are absolutely restricted to certain rooms, because this is a rental property.
They cannot be free range. I cannot train a dog to do anything/stop that stupid shit if I am not in the room with it. When they are unsupervised, they are somewhere secure where they cannot hurt themselves or do something daft.
Dogs need physical restrictions and boundaries, it does not make you a bad person. If they have no restrictions and boundaries in one area of their life, how are they to respect them in another?
They are fairly black and white animals who do not deal with grey, or beige, allowing a dog to do something sometimes, but not other times, when they have no concept of what is right and wrong, is confusing and unfair.

As I said before, I would be using this dog's food drive and never feeding out of a bowl, just because it is meal time, if I sat at my desk and did nothing and my boss kept throwing me ten quid notes, I would not work very hard.
You can train some very nice behaviours in very short five or ten minute sessions throughout the day using the dog's normal food allowance, initially just for engagement and looking at you, then the more serious stuff.
Once you get your head around it, it is quite a fun way of doing things. My younger dog is four and she still gets all her daily food allowance from my pockets on a walk or through training/at dog club. If I really CBA, I scatter the food on the ground so she has to look for it (food circuits where you throw the food from side to side is good fun), put it in a Kong for her to work it out or the bare minimum is ask for sit, down, stand and then plonk the food down.
You can use a treat bag, a clay pigeon/fishing/camera vest or the pricier options are the bespoke dog training vests and skirts.

 

[GrassChop]

You really need to assess whether you can be the best owner for the pup. I’m aware that sounds brutal but being loosely involved with a rescue in Devon the amount of spaniels that come in is ridiculous - they are generally too ‘drivey’ and busy for their owners. Many go on to be Police Search dogs as they have a tireless approach to anything.

If you are the right owners, then great! Pup needs a crate, somehow.

What are your plans for the pup as it gets more adult - will it be beating, picking up? Agility, hoopers, scent work, KC Good Citizens etc? On line training is a good back up - have a look at the puppy section here. https://www.oneminddogs.com/online-puppy-training/

Edited to say - if you don’t have a crate where does the puppy sleep, where do you leave him when you go out, how do you safely travel him by car?

We're definitely not the best for him, I'm under no illusion that we are. He needs a bigger home and garden.

He has a bed in the living room which is where he stays during the day and when we go to bed. He has a car seat for travelling.

 

[planete]

Regarding toileting. You need to stay with him and if you reward him every time he performs, he will soon learn what you are expecting and should take less time making up his mind to do it. You can also associate a word to the action which you will eventually use as a command so that he will perform on demand.

 

[Clodagh]

We are losing the will to live really. When he's good, he's amazing but it's few and far between. He's caused an immense amount of stress and upset between us all.

If he’s causing you stress he will feel it and get naughtier and clingier.
Tbh.. I’d send him back while he’s still young and cute and any needy behaviours don’t get worse. And unless you are the most patient, tolerant and always at home model of consistency don’t get a dog until you have room to crate it.
My mum never crated her rescues but she was very experienced and always at home and they were her world. Most if us need some downtime.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have a friend who adopted a pair of litter mates(1 dog, 1 bitch) from a foreign rescue. (Not something I would have recommended,) She has been driven almost to despair by the dog's refusal to be clean in the house and his noisiness. Because of a veterinary issue she had to crate them both, separately. Having 'never liked crates' she has now discovered the benefits
The dog is much cleaner and a bit quieter.

 

[stangs]

We're definitely not the best for him, I'm under no illusion that we are. He needs a bigger home and garden.

FWIW, I know several working bred spaniels living in small flats who are absolutely fine since their owners made the necessary adjustments to their lifestyles and put in the work that the dogs need. Sure they'd probably love to have a garden to run around in, but the garden would not improve the dog's behaviour like work does.

He's only 4mo and in his second home (excluding breeder) - surely rearranging furniture and investing (time and maybe money) in some training is a small price to pay to prevent him from having to face such upheaval yet again? What were you expecting when you bought a spaniel?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We're definitely not the best for him, I'm under no illusion that we are. He needs a bigger home and garden.

He has a bed in the living room which is where he stays during the day and when we go to bed. He has a car seat for travelling.

If there is room for a bed, there is room for a crate, just put the bed in the crate.

 

[GrassChop]

OP, can I ask an honest question? Are you still in the Feelings stage or do you actively want Solutions? It's a mistake I often make on here because not everyone wants to hear the solutions yet and I don't really do feelings.
You've been given a couple already but you've just told us that they won't work.
To do this properly and install boundaries, there has to be a bit of a lifestyle adjustment and changing the way you think about management.
I live in a tiny bungalow with two large breed dogs. They have secure pens in the garage, they have airline crates in the kitchen. They are absolutely restricted to certain rooms, because this is a rental property.
They cannot be free range. I cannot train a dog to do anything/stop that stupid shit if I am not in the room with it. When they are unsupervised, they are somewhere secure where they cannot hurt themselves or do something daft.
Dogs need physical restrictions and boundaries, it does not make you a bad person. If they have no restrictions and boundaries in one area of their life, how are they to respect them in another?
They are fairly black and white animals who do not deal with grey, or beige, allowing a dog to do something sometimes, but not other times, when they have no concept of what is right and wrong, is confusing and unfair.

As I said before, I would be using this dog's food drive and never feeding out of a bowl, just because it is meal time, if I sat at my desk and did nothing and my boss kept throwing me ten quid notes, I would not work very hard.
You can train some very nice behaviours in very short five or ten minute sessions throughout the day using the dog's normal food allowance, initially just for engagement and looking at you, then the more serious stuff.
Once you get your head around it, it is quite a fun way of doing things. My younger dog is four and she still gets all her daily food allowance from my pockets on a walk or through training/at dog club. If I really CBA, I scatter the food on the ground so she has to look for it (food circuits where you throw the food from side to side is good fun), put it in a Kong for her to work it out or the bare minimum is ask for sit, down, stand and then plonk the food down.
You can use a treat bag, a clay pigeon/fishing/camera vest or the pricier options are the bespoke dog training vests and skirts.

I want solutions but I also feel that the reality is that our place is too small now for him in particular. We've made a huge amount of adjustments already. He's limited to just the living room when we are not there or in bed but he's now jumping the stair gates so they would need to be changed. It's really hard to explain the layout of our place.

From our living room on one side, we have the kitchen and bathroom with only a tiny square hallway between those rooms plus the front door and because he's at your feet, he has to be stepped over a lot of the time or we maneuver ourselves in a way to actually be able to open the other stair gates into those rooms. This is also the only way in for the cats from the front door so if he's on his bed in the hallway if we've had to shut him from the lounge, the cats won't go passed him. They only just about manage to go across the hall to the kitchen when he is in the living room with the gate into there closed. We have no storage so removing furniture from the living room to accommodate a crate wouldn't work, we would have a crate otherwise. From the other side of the living room are the bedrooms with a small square hallway between them, smaller than the other, maybe less than a meter squared. The door stays shut so the cats don't go in here either.

We have a puppy cam up so we can see him when he's being left and he's been good with this minus a bit of crying and howling for 5 minutes. Only up to 2.5 hours so far. This is a positive that I should have added. He's actually just worse when he can see us but can't get to us.

We genuinely thought that things would work. We have done so much to change and adapt to his needs but the reality is that we feel he'd be better off with someone with a better set up, as heartbreaking as it is. I was just hoping that others would be able to reassure us that things would change and get better. We can change things but it still won't make our home bigger.

 

[GrassChop]

If he’s causing you stress he will feel it and get naughtier and clingier.
Tbh.. I’d send him back while he’s still young and cute and any needy behaviours don’t get worse. And unless you are the most patient, tolerant and always at home model of consistency don’t get a dog until you have room to crate it.
My mum never crated her rescues but she was very experienced and always at home and they were her world. Most if us need some downtime.

The last owner didn't want him back! Perhaps there was a reason...

 

[MurphysMinder]

Just looked at your previous post and you’ve only had him a couple of weeks , so he’s hardly had time to settle , particularly as you are his 3rd home. If you want to persevere you really need to find space for a crate . I’m not sure how far you are walking him but he doesn’t need much at 4 months , he may be totally over stimulated . If you really feel you aren’t able to follow the advice given I’d contact a spaniel rescue , although they’re probably over run with them