Spaniel Puppy Advice/Vent

GrassChop said:
I know people do it but is it fair to the dog being in a crate for several hours while they go to work? We never did that with our dogs when we grew up so it's new to me.
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Well he’s evidently upset being out of the crate, so at least by being in one your house is in one piece.

Edited to say that personally I wouldn’t have a lone puppy if I was out at work a lot. Rew spent his puppyhood either at home with me or Mr StR or in the large boot of my car whilst I was at work, and then he was walked around the car park on a long line every hour or so. He also met lots of people so it was good for socialising.
 
GrassChop said:
My OH has decided it's for the best to move him on. He's not coping well being left, even for 2 hours. He doesn't cry but he inevitably gets destructive, he's ripped down our blinds and torn them to pieces, will need replacing as they are the landlord's. He's pooed and peed all over the carpet despite going for a poo twice beforehand and several pees. Obviously I'm upset that our house is getting slightly destroyed although half expected but the pain of letting him go is consuming my whole being. I'm at work and can't stop crying, the pain is unbearable.
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Sounds perfect.
I think you’ll be relieved when he’s gone, sounds like to a great home and you can sit back and breathe.
At least the cats can come back in before the weather gets awful.
 
No I don’t think it’s fair to keep dogs crated for long hours but for couple of hours at a time given how upset you and puppy have been I would think is reasonable and perhaps could get you through these initial weeks whilst he settles into routine. Unfortunately it sounds like puppy has worn out his welcome with your OH so it’s all academic now.
 
GrassChop said:
I know people do it but is it fair to the dog being in a crate for several hours while they go to work? We never did that with our dogs when we grew up so it's new to me.
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Well, for some of us, having a dog alone for several hours daily isn’t considered fair full stop - especially a puppy. But I’d certainly never leave one so young uncrated whilst out of the home.

But that’s by the by now. Steep learning curve for you and your OH. Hopefully you’ll be better prepared, organised and set up if you decide on another dog in the future.
 
I'm sorry but if I'm really confused by the swing between:

'Puppy is a nightmare and we have no room for a crate'
'Actually he's fine being left alone/doesn't cry/goes to sleep'
'We have all the gear now and everything is going great'
'We didn't actually start teaching him to be alone incrementally as advised repeatedly by multiple people and he's wrecked the place'

Then I have no idea how confused the dog must feel. None of this was going to be resolvable in a few weeks, to be fair.

I think moving him on is the best decision.
 
Sounds like you've made the right decision for the puppy. They need input 24/7 at this age and despite him not crying that much, he would be struggling to be on his own and self soothing can manifest itself in other ways, by affecting the bond you have when training ( lack of recall etc).

I am probably getting a puppy in November and have already sorted a friend who works from home to have her during the day for several months, so she has social contact etc. A crate isnt a great solution to separation anxiety, all it's doing is keeping the furniture safe, not helping the puppy cope. You are right to question leaving a puppy in one for several hours.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I'm sorry but if I'm really confused by the swing between:

'Puppy is a nightmare and we have no room for a crate'
'Actually he's fine being left alone/doesn't cry/goes to sleep'
'We have all the gear now and everything is going great'
'We didn't actually start teaching him to be alone incrementally as advised repeatedly by multiple people and he's wrecked the place'

Then I have no idea how confused the dog must feel. None of this was going to be resolvable in a few weeks, to be fair.

I think moving him on is the best decision.
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Where did you see that we didn't start teaching him gradually to be alone? We did do this from the start and he's been absolutely fine with it until now. He's suddenly just gone backwards with all his toilet training and started being destructive. He had been sleeping the entire time before now.
 
GrassChop said:
Where did you see that we didn't start teaching him gradually to be alone? We did do this from the start and he's been absolutely fine with it until now. He's suddenly just gone backwards with all his toilet training and started being destructive. He had been sleeping the entire time before now.
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I suspect the 2.5 hours was his limit, and now he’s alone for longer it’s, understandably too long.
 
GrassChop said:
Where did you see that we didn't start teaching him gradually to be alone? We did do this from the start and he's been absolutely fine with it until now. He's suddenly just gone backwards with all his toilet training and started being destructive. He had been sleeping the entire time before now.
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I can read between the lines from your posts, you're telling people what they want to hear so they don't give you hassle, that's understandable.
Also, you've had him since mid to late August, yeah? And even the best in the world would have struggled to have got him comfortable with being alone for that sort of period of time, especially with being first timers and him being the type of dog he is.

The extreme toileting is probably due to the stress coming from you and your OH unfortunately, they do pick up on it.
 
I think the puppy has done well not to wreck the place up until now.

I can't imagine I could have left any of mine unattended in the house at that age. I think my most recent chap was up to about an hour left alone (crated) at four months old.

Tbh, I don't leave them at all for a good month or so when I first get them. I like them to be really secure and happy in their crate and confident before I begin to contemplate leaving them alone for any length of time.

I am very lucky that I work from home so can dedicate pretty much my whole day around a puppy. If I had to work in the office, even on a part time basis, then I would only consider getting an older dog.

Puppies are pretty much 24/7. I think it's a struggle for people to comprehend until they are actually in the thick of it.

I do think you have made the correct decision for your chap and it sounds like you have a decent home lined up, who have experience of the breed.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I can read between the lines from your posts, you're telling people what they want to hear so they don't give you hassle, that's understandable.
Also, you've had him since mid to late August, yeah? And even the best in the world wouldn't have got him comfortable with being alone for that sort of period of time.

The extreme toileting is probably due to the stress coming from you and your OH unfortunately, they do pick up on it.
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Please don't make assumptions. We spent our entire annual leave reenacting our work schedule gradually increasing the time each day. He had been good as gold up to 3.5 hours when we eventually got to that time. We have someone coming in for him in the middle of the day. This only started yesterday when my OH went back to work fully.

We changed our furniture to accommodate a crate. We aren't just going to shove him in it for 4 hours and expect him to be okay when he's never been in one before and anyone knowledgeable here would know that it wouldn't happen like that either. We've only had it a few days and have been working on it with him slowly.

I'm not telling anyone what they want to hear, I'm not here to satisfy what people want to hear and I'm not scared to tell the truth. Please don't assume you know everything.

This is also a normal amount for a puppy to go to the toilet, albeit he held it before now and has had a couple of accidents in the last 3 days.

This is not my decision to give up now.
 
I guess crate training can take weeks and weeks for some dogs. Having only had kennel dogs for years I was super cautious with Rew and would crate him whenever I even had a shower for the first couple of months,mainly because of puppy teeth and electric cables 💥

OP it is a really tough choice and yes you are upset, but the dog will hopefully settle with the right home, and hopefully the cats will be back to normal soon.
 
GrassChop said:
Please don't make assumptions. We spent our entire annual leave reenacting our work schedule gradually increasing the time each day. He had been good as gold up to 3.5 hours when we eventually got to that time. We have someone coming in for him in the middle of the day. This only started yesterday when my OH went back to work fully.

We changed our furniture to accommodate a crate. We aren't just going to shove him in it for 4 hours and expect him to be okay when he's never been in one before and anyone knowledgeable here would know that it wouldn't happen like that either. We've only had it a few days and have been working on it with him slowly.

I'm not telling anyone what they want to hear, I'm not here to satisfy what people want to hear and I'm not scared to tell the truth. Please don't assume you know everything.

This is also a normal amount for a puppy to go to the toilet, albeit he held it before now and has had a couple of accidents in the last 3 days.

This is not my decision to give up now.
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I don't have to make assumptions, I'm going off what you've been saying.
I deal with lots of dogs and people and I don't listen to what the people tell me they do at home, I watch the dog and the dog tells me what's been going on.
And I do tell people to their face that the dog is telling me something different.

I do totally agree it 'wouldn't happen like that'. The scenario you desired was never going to be achievable in under three weeks.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I don't have to make assumptions, I'm going off what you've been saying.
I deal with lots of dogs and people and I don't listen to what the people tell me they do at home, I watch the dog and the dog tells me what's been going on.
And I do tell people to their face that the dog is telling me something different.

I totally agree it wouldn't happen like that. The scenario you desired was never going to be achievable in under three weeks.
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I've been completely truthful with everything I've said. I've got footage from the Ring camera that's been on since we got him, not really that interesting watching him sleep most of the time but if you want to believe I'm not being honest then that's fine.

I appreciate that you go by what the dog is telling you but you haven't seen him to assess that. You only know the bits I've said and as you say, you don't listen to what people tell you they do at home.

The point to my update wasn't that it was a game changer for me what he did, it was expected as these things will happen. The point was that OH has decided that it's not going to work and that I'm hurt at the unbearable thought of losing him.
 
GrassChop said:
This is not my decision to give up now.
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GrassChop said:
Thank you. I will miss him more than anything.
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Apologies if I have you confused with a different poster. Didn't you post recently about relationship difficulties because OH had certain expectations of you/your time? You wanted weekend lie ins then time with horses but OH wanted you up early and spending time with stepkids?

Now he's apparently made the decision without your full agreement to rehome the pup.

The former thread probably wouldn't align with having a pup/spaniel type.

Fwiw I think the dog deserves a more suitable home. The experienced home on a farm sounds ideal.

However I do (& only because you've posted on a public forum) have concerns about your relationship and your standing in it. I hope that you are OK and have the necessary support around you.
 
GrassChop said:
My OH has decided it's for the best to move him on. He's not coping well being left, even for 2 hours. He doesn't cry but he inevitably gets destructive, he's ripped down our blinds and torn them to pieces, will need replacing as they are the landlord's. He's pooed and peed all over the carpet despite going for a poo twice beforehand and several pees. Obviously I'm upset that our house is getting slightly destroyed although half expected but the pain of letting him go is consuming my whole being. I'm at work and can't stop crying, the pain is unbearable.
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I'm glad you have found him a home hopefully as they already have a spaniel they will be fully aware of what they are taking on.

I will say though expecting a new puppy or young dog to stay home with the run of the living room or kitchen for most of the day and not chew or toilet after only 2 weeks is just crazy.

I really wouldn't think about getting another.
 
GrassChop said:
I've been completely truthful with everything I've said. I've got footage from the Ring camera that's been on since we got him, not really that interesting watching him sleep most of the time but if you want to believe I'm not being honest then that's fine.

I appreciate that you go by what the dog is telling you but you haven't seen him to assess that. You only know the bits I've said and as you say, you don't listen to what people tell you they do at home.

The point to my update wasn't that it was a game changer for me what he did, it was expected as these things will happen. The point was that OH has decided that it's not going to work and that I'm hurt at the unbearable thought of losing him.
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I see...there I go getting caught in the Feelings vs Solutions trap again. I am giving you reasons as to why the backslide has happened. If it's not stress, I will eat my hat. It doesn't mean you are bad people, all dogs, and people, undergo stress and react accordingly.

I'll leave more empathetic people to the Feelings stuff, as you know it's not my strong suit. At least you know he's going to somewhere where he will have a more appropriate outlet for his energy and he's only been with you a few weeks so it should hopefully not be too difficult a transition for him.
And your cats will be delighted to have their gaff back, I am sure.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I see...there I go getting caught in the Feelings vs Solutions trap again. I am giving you reasons as to why the backslide has happened. If it's not stress, I will eat my hat. It doesn't mean you are bad people, all dogs, and people, undergo stress and react accordingly.

I'll leave more empathetic people to the Feelings stuff, as you know it's not my strong suit. At least you know he's going to somewhere where he will have a more appropriate outlet for his energy and he's only been with you a few weeks so it should hopefully not be too difficult a transition for him.
And your cats will be delighted to have their gaff back, I am sure.
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Sorry if it was misunderstood. It was an update with what was happening so yes, feelings. However, I didn't see any solution regarding keeping him to help the situation in your reply, not that it was intended for one, I guess. It was a mixture of needing more time for him to settle and learn and maybe the reality of the lifestyle for him isn't something that will work so I don't think there is any changing that. :(

I'm sure my cats can't wait and I know it would be perfect for him, it just doesn't make it feel easier.
 
The reasoning behind not leaving a pup too long in a crate is the not too long part, rather than the crate part. It doesn't matter where you leave the pup, except for the effect on your furnishings etc., the point is that you should gradually get the pup used to being left. You are extremely lucky if the pup hasn't eaten your electric cables.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
The reasoning behind not leaving a pup too long in a crate is the not too long part, rather than the crate part. It doesn't matter where you leave the pup, except for the effect on your furnishings etc., the point is that you should gradually get the pup used to being left. You are extremely lucky if the pup hasn't eaten your electric cables.
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We were lucky. He hadn't chewed anything he shouldn't have until yesterday but it was partly my fault for leaving some headphones too close to the edge of a cupboard! The cable was in pieces in less than 5 minutes.🙈 He also took a liking to the box of kindling so that was removed and also the fake lavender in a pot which was also removed. Luckily neighbour was on hand to go in and take it all away as I was at work and could see it all unfolding, downside to having a live stream of it! Today it was the blinds. All things I don't mind too much about as it can be replaced but I think it just hit OH that this can't work with him being left there. He's probably right.

My OH went back at lunch to sort the mess out from today and we bit the bullet and put him in the crate with his Kong so that nothing else was eaten before one of us got home. He's been sleeping in there for the last nearly 3 hours. I'm watching through our Ring camera constantly!
 
Again, this is academic if the decision is made, but what did you think was going to happen when you left a young puppy alone in a room full of edible things for a protracted amount of time? He is a mix of two breeds hardwired to want to have something in their mouths.
My old dog is 13, he is not a spaniel but has a genetic predisposition going back over decades, to want to have something in his gob. If he doesn't have something to hold, he will find something. When he was poorly earlier this year and I thought, he's ill, I'll go and make a phonecall, how much trouble could he get into, etc etc, he paraded past me with a hot water bottle that he had fished out of a plastic bag full of Christmas presents, a 2kg dumbbell and several shoes. I literally cannot leave him unobserved in a normal room so I make things as safe as possible for him, so he doesn't swallow something stupid and die. The giant Flexi leash I left on his bed accidentally was a good one, though, he took out the entire handle.
When she was a pup, his daughter pulled a long line into her crate like a piece of spaghetti in Lady and the Tramp while I was on a Zoom call. Luckily when I took her to the vet and they made her throw it up, she had chewed it into very small pieces and wasn't stupid enough to eat the clip.
Also, chewing is a self-comforting activity for a dog, for them it is like us squeezing a stress ball or using a fidget spinner.
 
GrassChop said:
We were lucky. He hadn't chewed anything he shouldn't have until yesterday but it was partly my fault for leaving some headphones too close to the edge of a cupboard! The cable was in pieces in less than 5 minutes.🙈 He also took a liking to the box of kindling so that was removed and also the fake lavender in a pot which was also removed. Luckily neighbour was on hand to go in and take it all away as I was at work and could see it all unfolding, downside to having a live stream of it! Today it was the blinds. All things I don't mind too much about as it can be replaced but I think it just hit OH that this can't work with him being left there. He's probably right.

My OH went back at lunch to sort the mess out from today and we bit the bullet and put him in the crate with his Kong so that nothing else was eaten before one of us got home. He's been sleeping in there for the last nearly 3 hours. I'm watching through our Ring camera constantly!
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I really don't think you had any idea what having a puppy or dog was going to be like.

I think you got off lightly my friends dog literally ate her sofa in one afternoon, then he chewed the legs off all her dining chairs.

But it's what some dogs do when they are young and bored.
 
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