Spaniel Update

NeverEver said:
the thing is that if you work on it now, you don’t necessarily have to keep a dog in this way for life. There is hope!! You condition her now to be the dog you want. Can’t you put a baby gate over the back door? Honestly - get some cheap plastic barrier netting and a few electric fence posts and you can have a pee - pen in under 5 minutes.
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We don't actually mind if she doesn't live in the house. The labs prefer it it without her!
 
cinnamontoast said:
I wonder if it would be helpful if you could find a springer specialist, although I know you’re experienced with other breeds. That’s when it all clicked for me, never thought I’d need one given I’d already had two (very easy ones!)
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A friend of mine, who has been very helpful but is currently curtailed by 4 children and the school holidays is coming over next week. She works springers. I agree they are a totally different ball game, I really had no idea she would be so difficult (obviously or we wouldn't have got her). I expected harder than a lab but not to be totally overfaced. I feel like someone who has always had lovely Irish horses and has toddled off and got a highly bred dressage warmblood!
BTW update for how we got on today, eye contact is fabulous in the garden and non existent outside.
 
Clodagh said:
BTW update for how we got on today, eye contact is fabulous in the garden and non existent outside.
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So start introducing the distractions in the garden (other dogs, poults, rolling tennis ball, bolting rabbit etc etc), then move her to a NEW but non-distracting environment - village green/cricket pitch for instance - so you have the novelty, but no major distractions. Then start adding the distractions in and upping the ante. I suspect that scent is her 'downfall', so establish the behaviour you require in a sterile environment first and then add in scent under your control - ie cold game.
 
Something that works really well to focus Zak is to put him in a sit. He will ignore everything but me (especially if I have a dummy in my hand, maybe get her interested in those). He maintains eye contact, ignores other distractions in the park-lots of dogs out today.
 
'Normal' car parks are also your friend for eye contact! Pretty much 0 'fun' scent. I did a stint of whenever mine was in the car getting him out at every chores stop just to sit down heal and back in again.
 
Thank you all. Well she has been kennelled for one whole day and already it has made a difference. Thank you, GGD. She came out about 5 times yesterday for a short train/play (same thing) and as her kennel opens onto a 10 x 10m patch of well fenced grass (a chicken run) there is not a lot to distract there. There are chickens in it but she has been beaten up by them in the past and is very wary.
OH also took her out on the stubble for a 5 min pattern and she was good. You can already see we are more interesting now we are the only interest.
I will reply to pms properly later but I think we need to scrap the pet aspect and look at her as a worker pure and simple. I still sat with her for a bit yesterday and gave her a brush and so on. I don't like her being kennelled alone but a friend has offered us another spaniel to keep her company! (Don't worry, not taking up that offer).
Will keep updating.
 
Well done - don't feel bad, it's just a different way of keeping her and no doubt the clarity will help her feel a bit more happy in the head.
Lots of dogs need a clear distinction between 'we're working now' and 'fanny about doing your own thing'.

I'm working with a 3yo who has come on leaps and bounds since her owner agreed to stop letting her potter about the field in between sessions and use it as an exercise place - the dog genuinely didn't realise when was work and when was play. Now we're either 'doing something' there or 'lying down waiting to do the next thing' there.
Also having unlimited access to tennis balls in the house kinda devalued them when it came to training lol.

She is still a pet, she just a clearer distinction between when is work and when is not.

You can also use cues like certain leads, collars and clothing. The only time my dog wears a chain is when he's about to go on and work, it's the last part of the prep and it means 'we're working now'.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Well done - don't feel bad, it's just a different way of keeping her and no doubt the clarity will help her feel a bit more happy in the head.
Lots of dogs need a clear distinction between 'we're working now' and 'fanny about doing your own thing'.
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Well I do feel bad - in fact she is sitting in the office with me now! But no free running in the garden. OH will no doubt disagree when he gets home and most of her time will still be out.
On the huge plus side though I took her for a walk round the garden (we have a fairly big one) and her stop whistle was fabulous, she is so much more attentive.
 
Clodagh said:
Well I do feel bad - in fact she is sitting in the office with me now! But no free running in the garden. OH will no doubt disagree when he gets home and most of her time will still be out.
On the huge plus side though I took her for a walk round the garden (we have a fairly big one) and her stop whistle was fabulous, she is so much more attentive.
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I must admit it is not how I would want to keep my dogs either. I like them being around me all day doing various things or nothing at all. Hopefully this early training will help mean she has more of a free rein as she matures.
 
WorkingGSD said:
I must admit it is not how I would want to keep my dogs either. I like them being around me all day doing various things or nothing at all. Hopefully this early training will help mean she has more of a free rein as she matures.
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That is exactly what I am hoping, short term pain and all that. I would love her to be a dog that could just come for a walk, but I don't know if we will ever achieve that goal!
 
This is where my stable door for a back door comes in handy, top is open for a breeze but no escapees

I do at about a year old train an exercise scenario where they get to walk to heel to the gate, sprint up and down one particular laneway on the property, sit up and wait for the lake gate to be opened and line up on the dock of the lake for two water retrieves each (steadinness expected) before racing up the lane for breakfast. Until then it's indoors, out to empty themselves or working for me. They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!
 
druid said:
This is where my stable door for a back door comes in handy, top is open for a breeze but no escapees

I do at about a year old train an exercise scenario where they get to walk to heel to the gate, sprint up and down one particular laneway on the property, sit up and wait for the lake gate to be opened and line up on the dock of the lake for two water retrieves each (steadinness expected) before racing up the lane for breakfast. Until then it's indoors, out to empty themselves or working for me. They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!
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I am living and learning!
 
druid said:
They're all velcro dogs bar the 5yo FTCh who is by far the worst behaved but still has a very solid recall - he just insists on running the whole length of the beach every day before lining up with the others!
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This makes me die, rebellious creature! Reminds me of one of mine...100mph round the woods, but straight back when called. Velcro dog indeed, he’s crawled onto my knee about 5 times today, despite having had an overload of cuddles from 3am when I decamped, unable to sleep, to the spare room.
 
Well nearly a month on we have bottomed out and moved on. I put her up for sale and actually had a couple of enquiries and then couldn't find her paperwork! The next morning OH did the dogging in and came home with 2 lame labs and said we are going to have to keep her as we really need something that can crash through ditches with impunity (we hope).
She is not allowed out except for under tight supervision, so is kennelled overnight, allowed out in the grass run in the morning for an hour, then back in the kennel while I go to work. After work she gets a lead walk and training/ball throwing. After that she comes in the house (and crashes, she does not relax in the kennel during the day).
Her stop whistle is awesome, I was walking her in the garden off lead yesterday and she came out of the hedge after half a dozen poults and I blew and she stopped so sharply she skidded on her bum. Now if we can nail that outside I will be happy!
We are not doing anything off lead outside the garden.
 
Sounds like you've got a sensible way of managing her now. I do feel for you, working a dog you dislike (maybe dislike is the wrong, word but you understand what I mean?) is both grating and draining. I hope the new regime makes life easier for both of you
 
druid said:
Sounds like you've got a sensible way of managing her now. I do feel for you, working a dog you dislike (maybe dislike is the wrong, word but you understand what I mean?) is both grating and draining. I hope the new regime makes life easier for both of you
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You are so right. As you say 'dislike' is a strong word but whereas when I train the labs I come back buzzing with her I just come back with a headache! She is a sweet little dog but just such hard work. She came in yesterday afternoon and just peed all over the hall carpet (excitement wee) and it was the last straw in my day (lots of not dog related stuff piling up on me) so went straight back out in the kennel again.
I know the less she comes in the more exciting it is but why can't she just learn to be continent!!
 
As you know my spaniel is now a pretty good pet. But christ alive, 2 years ago I was still tearing my hair out.
My M-i-L spaniel is far worse. She is a nightmare (spaniel - the m-i-l I've got used to! lol). The excited pee isn't just a little, it's a lot, and it sprays everywhere! Her feet, and her fluffs are stained yellow. We always have to great outside. You have to dodge the dog or your shoes get it too. Whats worse though, is she is an ill mannered spaniel. Will go for other dogs. Mine doesn't like her either, there is always a few snaps, but I know mine is trying to get her to behave and calm down!!
I gave mine a few scraps in her feed yesterday. I never normally do. Within moments we were all preparing for accidents. Farts were toxic. She will never be 100% house trained!
 
Clodagh said:
Well nearly a month on we have bottomed out and moved on. I put her up for sale and actually had a couple of enquiries and then couldn't find her paperwork! The next morning OH did the dogging in and came home with 2 lame labs and said we are going to have to keep her as we really need something that can crash through ditches with impunity (we hope).l
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I think it’s a sign she’s there for life! 😂
 
Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one.
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup.
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
All the above do very occasionally go out the window - but only once this week. As the whole farm is flooded with pheasants, rabbits and squirrels - including our garden, it is not possible to find a game free area but if she flushes a pheasant she sits down! (I imagine she thinks it is a chicken, but whatever works). I am not sugesting we are just doing a sensible walk like with a middle aged lab but I do feel there may be some sort of connection happening. I am not so irrelevant to her now. :)WP_20180907_18_33_47_Pro.jpg
 
Fools Motto said:
As you know my spaniel is now a pretty good pet. But christ alive, 2 years ago I was still tearing my hair out.
My M-i-L spaniel is far worse. She is a nightmare (spaniel - the m-i-l I've got used to! lol). The excited pee isn't just a little, it's a lot, and it sprays everywhere! Her feet, and her fluffs are stained yellow. We always have to great outside. You have to dodge the dog or your shoes get it too. Whats worse though, is she is an ill mannered spaniel. Will go for other dogs. Mine doesn't like her either, there is always a few snaps, but I know mine is trying to get her to behave and calm down!!
I gave mine a few scraps in her feed yesterday. I never normally do. Within moments we were all preparing for accidents. Farts were toxic. She will never be 100% house trained!
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She can eat anything, gut like iron, but her knickers are disgustingly crusty and her personal hygiene leaves a lot to be desired.
 
I’m really glad it’s all starting to fall into place. I’ve always liked Spaniels, but seeing how you’ve struggled with her, definitely not a dog we will likely get in the future. If you’ve found it a struggle, we would be doomed :p
 
TheresaW said:
I’m really glad it’s all starting to fall into place. I’ve always liked Spaniels, but seeing how you’ve struggled with her, definitely not a dog we will likely get in the future. If you’ve found it a struggle, we would be doomed :p
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I am not convinced, lots of people seem to have perfectly nice ones, it was just me that was stumped!
 
Clodagh said:
Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one.
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup.
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
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Nice one! :D
 
Thistle said:
She just needed the threat of coming to live with all my boys!

Can I send my mad spaniels to you for steadieness training please!
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You obviously haven't got enough chickens and pheasants around. She chased a poult yesterday, she just couldn't be good for too long. :-)
 
Clodagh said:
Well, I think someone may have swapped the spanner for another better behaved one.
We are far from perfection, but now I can think her misdemeanours are within the bounds of a 10 month old pup.
Stop whistle - nailed it
Recall - ditto
She now circles on walks and then comes and looks at you - that is an incredible step forward!
All the above do very occasionally go out the window - but only once this week. As the whole farm is flooded with pheasants, rabbits and squirrels - including our garden, it is not possible to find a game free area but if she flushes a pheasant she sits down! (I imagine she thinks it is a chicken, but whatever works). I am not sugesting we are just doing a sensible walk like with a middle aged lab but I do feel there may be some sort of connection happening. I am not so irrelevant to her now. :)View attachment 25839
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Shes a very innocent looking girl! Mine is an angel, but turns 12months on the 7th so I ought to do some training as she hasnt been officially taught a single command yet 🙈 I've never trained a gundog type before though and so have been procrastinating! Photo of the mad one below, she is like a leaner version of the duracell bunny!

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