Steve young training a dog

[Sandstone1]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=5864426098505

This is a horse trainer training a dog, you may want to fast forward a bit. What do you think of this method of training a dog not to pull?
Makes me pretty uncomfortable but is it just me?

 

[Sandstone1]

Looks like video wont play for some reason

 

[Teaselmeg]

Its still on Youtube. He has no understanding of dog behaviour or body language, awful video.

 

[CorvusCorax]

There is no sound card in this PC, but I will say that the dog does look very stressed by the whole thing. It will also get you bit by a certain type of dog.

I say that with the caveat that dogs will not go through life without being stressed.
I expect my own dogs to undergo stress and come out the other side OK and train them from early on that enduring slight pressure/discomfort (such as, for example, experiencing and then moving out of leash pressure) equals a massive reward.
Telling a dog that's been allowed to do what it pleases on the leash and with minimal stress its' entire life, suddenly, because you're now fed up with behaviour 'NO - ALL THE RULES HAVE CHANGED, NOW PRESSURE APPLIES' is unfair, IMO, and that is what looks like happened in this video.

Is it the worst thing I have ever seen? No. Is it great? Also no.

 

[skinnydipper]

This video? I didn't watch all of it.

Poor little thing, that's bullying not training.

I want a happy dog who enjoys her walks on the end of my lead so it's force-free, reward based training all the way for me.

I prefer this video:

 

[blackcob]

His criteria and corrections are inconsistent, the dog is not engaged with him at all because it's scared of him and besides anything else that would absolutely do your back in.

 

[Clodagh]

He’s trying to teach the word ‘loose’ as a command?
And surely if when he stopped he said a stop word, or even picked up ‘the contact’ she would know to stop rather than wandering on.
Not awful but a bit odd. I’ve never even understood the obsession with the dog being behind your leg.
Obedience people shoot me now ?

 

[SilverLinings]

At around 4.09 when the video has been cut and he has control of the dog for the first time the dog cowers and is licking when he turns to her, she is clearly frightened and I'm afraid that it makes me wonder whether he used a harsher 'correction' first that was then edited out of the video.

The guy largely strikes me as a rather arrogant person who craves the limelight, and not the sort I'd personally choose to work with an animal.

 

[CorvusCorax]

He’s trying to teach the word ‘loose’ as a command?
And surely if when he stopped he said a stop word, or even picked up ‘the contact’ she would know to stop rather than wandering on.
Not awful but a bit odd. I’ve never even understood the obsession with the dog being behind your leg.
Obedience people shoot me now ?

Dogs are non verbal. I personally teach behaviours then marry a word when I like what I see after a certain amount of repetitions. You can say Two Pints of Larger and a Packet of Crisps, it's just a word associated with a behaviour.
I see no point in him talking to the dog or trying to use a command at all, for a behaviour that is completely alien to it.

 

[blackcob]

12:40 onwards he is just asking to be bitten.

 

[stangs]

If I didn’t know from the context what he was trying to reinforce, I’d be confused too. Not surprised the dog didn’t get it.

 

[Sandstone1]

The comments on his facebook page telling him how fantastic he is at dog training are sad. That people can not see the signs of stress in dogs is worrying. He was honestly asking to get bitten. He should stick to horses. Its put me right off him to be honest.

 

[Sandstone1]

At around 4.09 when the video has been cut and he has control of the dog for the first time the dog cowers and is licking when he turns to her, she is clearly frightened and I'm afraid that it makes me wonder whether he used a harsher 'correction' first that was then edited out of the video.

The guy largely strikes me as a rather arrogant person who craves the limelight, and not the sort I'd personally choose to work with an animal.

I had enjoyed some of his horse videos and liked his common sense attitude to horses but watching this dog video has really put me off. I would agree that the dog is frightened in that video and wonder what went on before. He calls it firming up with horses. He very clearly has no idea about dogs or signs of stress with them.

 

[maisie06]

what a c0ck - if he did that to my springer he'd have been bitten- there's no engagement, the dog is turning the head and licking the lips, tail clamped and is stressed - as said above the bloke is a bully and arrogant showoff -

I'm training a springer pup at the moment only 12 weeks but already engaging! My big lads pull sometimes when they forget their manners but a quick sideways flick with the slip lead and change of direction soon has them on track again - waggy tailed and alert, not shut down....he needs a kick up the arse.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Is she supposed to magically know that loose=heel? Has he taught her the word? I don’t think so. My two youngsters try it on when on lead going to the woods, but are lovely to walk up the street to the park.

I think picking up the dog is over the top, she is probably very confused.

 

[smolmaus]

I had enjoyed some of his horse videos and liked his common sense attitude to horses but watching this dog video has really put me off. I would agree that the dog is frightened in that video and wonder what went on before. He calls it firming up with horses. He very clearly has no idea about dogs or signs of stress with them.

His approach seems to have a lot of success with horses and I do watch his videos (not this one, yet) but the horses he gets sent to are often on the verge if not over the line into dangerous and the "firming up" is a lot easier to justify in that scenario. I wouldnt use his techniques on a horse that didn't need them and I certainly wouldn't attempt to use them on a dog or say my terrible creature of a cat, entirely different species need entirely different approaches!

The last thread about him that was on here I think his daughter posted on. I hope and also kind of don't hope that she sees this one.

 

[Sandstone1]

I really hope that his daughter does see it. Im afraid someone needs to tell him hes got it very wrong with that dog. He says his videos are hardly edited, I dont think thats true and because he is now getting quite a big following people will copy him and try his method with dogs too.
That dog was scared of him and anyone with a understanding of dogs and their body language will know that. It was stressed to hell. The trouble is his facebook followers are so in awe of him that they are all saying how great he is with the dog. It was not nice watching if you understand dogs.

 

[paisley]

This video? I didn't watch all of it.

Poor little thing, that's bullying not training.

I want a happy dog who enjoys her walks on the end of my lead so it's force-free, reward based training all the way for me.

I prefer this video:

Love the second video and the phrase "checking in with the owner", for me says everything about training and communication with your dog. How many times have we seen a dog on a walk glancing up at their owner for a tiny bit of reassurance or approval and it being missed/ignored?

 

[Sandstone1]

The second video is great, the first is horrible.

 

[Thundering]

He’s trying to teach the word ‘loose’ as a command?
And surely if when he stopped he said a stop word, or even picked up ‘the contact’ she would know to stop rather than wandering on.
Not awful but a bit odd. I’ve never even understood the obsession with the dog being behind your leg.
Obedience people shoot me now ?

Not awful? Its absolutely dreadful!

 

[Clodagh]

Not awful? Its absolutely dreadful!

You should watch some old school gundog trainers in action!

 

[Sprout]

He really has no clue, but obviously considers himself an expert, loving the limelight and the sound of his own voice .... waffling on forever!
I wouldnt let him anywhere near my dogs, or horses.

 

[Thundering]

You should watch some old school gundog trainers in action!

I can imagine but this man is a well known horse trainer? I looked up his facebook page and the amount of people telling him how amazing he is is eye opening. The poor dog was so confused and scared. I would guess something else went on off camera too. Looks like a Caesar Milan wannabe to me. Probably thinks he can make money out of dog training as a sideline. Always amazes me how evangelical people get on facebook about these types of people. Bit like Monty Roberts and parelli etc.

 

[skinnydipper]

I can imagine but this man is a well known horse trainer? I looked up his facebook page and the amount of people telling him how amazing he is is eye opening. The poor dog was so confused and scared. I would guess something else went on off camera too. Looks like a Caesar Milan wannabe to me. Probably thinks he can make money out of dog training as a sideline. Always amazes me how evangelical people get on facebook about these types of people. Bit like Monty Roberts and parelli etc.

I've just been reading some of the comments. I hope these people don't have animals in their care - ever.

"This had me in hysterics. That poor dog started cringing each time Steve said "past my toe".

Fun video.

What a brilliant result!

Same principles. Consistency repetition kindness.

Oh my goodness!!! That was hysterically brilliant!"

 

[Sandstone1]

I've just been reading some of the comments. I hope these people don't have animals in their care - ever.

"This had me in hysterics. That poor dog started cringing each time Steve said "past my toe".

Fun video.

What a brilliant result!

Same principles. Consistency repetition kindness.

Oh my goodness!!! That was hysterically brilliant!"

Yes I looked too, Scary how supposed animal people can not see how scared that poor dog is. I am embarrassed that I thought he was good.....

 

[Clodagh]

"This had me in hysterics. That poor dog started cringing each time Steve said "past my toe".

That’s actually really sad, I bet they were a bully at school.

 

[SilverLinings]

I can't think of any reason why a normal, sane person with even a smidgen of empathy would find it funny to watch an animal cringing, especially as the result of something a human has done. I really don't know what's wrong with some people, that is not a normal human response.

As Skinnydipper says, I hope the people commenting like that don't own or come into contact with animals; it also doesn't say much about the 'trainer' that he is not addressing those sorts of comments on his page.

 

[Sandstone1]

I find it really sad that animal people think that kind of handling is ok.

 

[CorvusCorax]

You should watch some old school gundog trainers in action!

Yeah, they come into our sport, expect the dog to do things 'because I told them to', get frustrated because they get hammered for points by judges because their dogs aren't motivated and look miserable 'but it DID everything!', then they usually get bit, because these dogs are less tolerant of unfair handling.

 

[Clodagh]

Yeah, they come into our sport, expect the dog to do things 'because I told them to', get frustrated because they get hammered for points by judges because their dogs aren't motivated and look miserable 'but it DID everything!', then they usually get bit, because these dogs are less tolerant of unfair handling.

I stopped going to large official group training as the dogs were all so sad, no eye contact, shut down. Surely it’s meant to be fun for them too?