happyhack
Well-Known Member
i know. everything seems to get exaggerated so much and its hard to see whats real and whats not, but i for one thik there is probably truth in this article, maybe not all of it but some of it.
STOP THE SLAUGHTER..
- Thread starter whispersltd
- Start date
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
That really is unfair to say. Those people who have commented not in the way you would like, are people who give a balanced view of things. Having read other posts by them, these are people who do care very much for their animals.
I have looked at the site, and it uses emotive wording rather than factually stating the process.
Slaughter houses are not nice places, but are very necessary. Far more distressing is the transport of live animals.
I would not send my horse to one. They have all been shot with their ears forward and a mouthful of food by the hunt but that does not mean that people who send their horses to the slaughter house or have them shot do not care for them.
I adore my animals and had this been an article that I could have respected, I would have signed.
[ QUOTE ]
It gallops at full speed toward the safe pastures of youth, to a time when a human hand held treats not death.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wording like this will not help the cause of preventing cruelty, factual reports will.
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
That really is unfair to say. Those people who have commented not in the way you would like, are people who give a balanced view of things. Having read other posts by them, these are people who do care very much for their animals.
I have looked at the site, and it uses emotive wording rather than factually stating the process.
Slaughter houses are not nice places, but are very necessary. Far more distressing is the transport of live animals.
I would not send my horse to one. They have all been shot with their ears forward and a mouthful of food by the hunt but that does not mean that people who send their horses to the slaughter house or have them shot do not care for them.
I adore my animals and had this been an article that I could have respected, I would have signed.
[ QUOTE ]
It gallops at full speed toward the safe pastures of youth, to a time when a human hand held treats not death.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wording like this will not help the cause of preventing cruelty, factual reports will.
whispersltd
Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have looked at the site, and it uses emotive wording rather than factually stating the process.
Slaughter houses are not nice places, but are very necessary. Far more distressing is the transport of live animals.
Wording like this will not help the cause of preventing cruelty, factual reports will.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but it does help open up the can of worms that is horse slaughter....why do we give so much money to children in need..red nose day and the like? its because emotive photos video and word is what helps to bring in the money from those watching it.
my point to saying "hard faces and stiff backs" is DONT READ THE THREAD IF YOU DONT AGREE..plenty of people will read it and just sign, if it get the issue on the table then thats a good thing.
[ QUOTE ]
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have looked at the site, and it uses emotive wording rather than factually stating the process.
Slaughter houses are not nice places, but are very necessary. Far more distressing is the transport of live animals.
Wording like this will not help the cause of preventing cruelty, factual reports will.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but it does help open up the can of worms that is horse slaughter....why do we give so much money to children in need..red nose day and the like? its because emotive photos video and word is what helps to bring in the money from those watching it.
my point to saying "hard faces and stiff backs" is DONT READ THE THREAD IF YOU DONT AGREE..plenty of people will read it and just sign, if it get the issue on the table then thats a good thing.
happyhack
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
....why do we give so much money to children in need..red nose day and the like? its because emotive photos video and word is what helps to bring in the money from those watching it.
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly the same thing. well said
....why do we give so much money to children in need..red nose day and the like? its because emotive photos video and word is what helps to bring in the money from those watching it.
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly the same thing. well said
airedale
Well-Known Member
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE ???????
Modern slaughterhouses are NOT 'hell holes'. DEFRA, the EU and a load of paper pushing nimbys make sure that they are clean, hygenic and 'clinical'. Live animals in one end and carcasses out the other, all done with hygeine a prime concern to protect Joe Public who need cheap food and patronise Tesburys instead of real UK farmers food.
If you have never taken a domesticated animal to a slaughter house then you have no right to describe them as you have done above.
I love horses but I am also a pragmatic realist and accept that it is NOT possible for all horses to live out their time in green pastures as paddock ornaments as not all owners can afford to do this - retirement living or not. Furthermore not every horse is happy 'retired' - the same as applies to some people who 'fade away' when 'put out to pasture' by their employers.
In an ideal world every horse would be put down in its own field, and then buried there (except we aren't allowed, by the EU, to do that any longer).
However this is the REAL world and not an ideal, pink fluffy bunny hugging pseudo paradise. It is a world where foxes slaughter peoples pet chickens; humans slaugher each other using suicide bombers and other idiot megalomaniacs decide to 'go nuclear' to be one up on their neighbouring nations.
So in that context, idealism is a wonderful thing but realism rules. Realism means that horses will go to slaughter houses and be put down there.
I HAVE been to slaughter houses with my sheep, many times, and they have received nothing but professional handling and a quick, clean, clinical death.
By all means protest about the transport of animals for long journeys in unsafe lorries with poor watering/feedign/overcrowding - but the end of life is not a 'hell hole'.
However, for some horses, tethered with cruel, tight small headcollars, kept neglected with overgrown feet, underfed and riddled with worms, neglected or beaten,........... a swift death is far far preferable to the living hell they are enduring whilst alive.
Pity the living - e.g. support the Brooke HOspital - and leave the dead to the green pastures of horse heaven where their suffering is over.
Modern slaughterhouses are NOT 'hell holes'. DEFRA, the EU and a load of paper pushing nimbys make sure that they are clean, hygenic and 'clinical'. Live animals in one end and carcasses out the other, all done with hygeine a prime concern to protect Joe Public who need cheap food and patronise Tesburys instead of real UK farmers food.
If you have never taken a domesticated animal to a slaughter house then you have no right to describe them as you have done above.
I love horses but I am also a pragmatic realist and accept that it is NOT possible for all horses to live out their time in green pastures as paddock ornaments as not all owners can afford to do this - retirement living or not. Furthermore not every horse is happy 'retired' - the same as applies to some people who 'fade away' when 'put out to pasture' by their employers.
In an ideal world every horse would be put down in its own field, and then buried there (except we aren't allowed, by the EU, to do that any longer).
However this is the REAL world and not an ideal, pink fluffy bunny hugging pseudo paradise. It is a world where foxes slaughter peoples pet chickens; humans slaugher each other using suicide bombers and other idiot megalomaniacs decide to 'go nuclear' to be one up on their neighbouring nations.
So in that context, idealism is a wonderful thing but realism rules. Realism means that horses will go to slaughter houses and be put down there.
I HAVE been to slaughter houses with my sheep, many times, and they have received nothing but professional handling and a quick, clean, clinical death.
By all means protest about the transport of animals for long journeys in unsafe lorries with poor watering/feedign/overcrowding - but the end of life is not a 'hell hole'.
However, for some horses, tethered with cruel, tight small headcollars, kept neglected with overgrown feet, underfed and riddled with worms, neglected or beaten,........... a swift death is far far preferable to the living hell they are enduring whilst alive.
Pity the living - e.g. support the Brooke HOspital - and leave the dead to the green pastures of horse heaven where their suffering is over.
happyhack
Well-Known Member
WE KNOW THAT NOT ALL SLAUGHTER HOUSES ARE HELL HOLES
Tierra
Well-Known Member
See. My "gut feeling" was that there would be so much red tape and inspections involved in slaughter houses that this is more how it would be.
Death is never going to be a pleasant thing and theres no point in pretending that, but the image you painted is more what I thought it would be like.
Also, rightly or wrongly I do tend to trust the opinions of forum users over random internet pages
Death is never going to be a pleasant thing and theres no point in pretending that, but the image you painted is more what I thought it would be like.
Also, rightly or wrongly I do tend to trust the opinions of forum users over random internet pages
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
Well said, and Brookes are one of the charities that have my total respect for what they do and my money and support.
They do show sad pictures, some of the wording is sad, but on the whole they are very factual and sensible in their approach.
They do show sad pictures, some of the wording is sad, but on the whole they are very factual and sensible in their approach.
whispersltd
Member
[ QUOTE ]
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE ???????
Modern slaughterhouses are NOT 'hell holes'. DEFRA, the EU and a load of paper pushing nimbys make sure that they are clean, hygenic and 'clinical'. Live animals in one end and carcasses out the other, all done with hygeine a prime concern to protect Joe Public who need cheap food and patronise Tesburys instead of real UK farmers food.
If you have never taken a domesticated animal to a slaughter house then you have no right to describe them as you have done above.
I love horses but I am also a pragmatic realist and accept that it is NOT possible for all horses to live out their time in green pastures as paddock ornaments as not all owners can afford to do this - retirement living or not. Furthermore not every horse is happy 'retired' - the same as applies to some people who 'fade away' when 'put out to pasture' by their employers.
In an ideal world every horse would be put down in its own field, and then buried there (except we aren't allowed, by the EU, to do that any longer).
However this is the REAL world and not an ideal, pink fluffy bunny hugging pseudo paradise. It is a world where foxes slaughter peoples pet chickens; humans slaugher each other using suicide bombers and other idiot megalomaniacs decide to 'go nuclear' to be one up on their neighbouring nations.
So in that context, idealism is a wonderful thing but realism rules. Realism means that horses will go to slaughter houses and be put down there.
I HAVE been to slaughter houses with my sheep, many times, and they have received nothing but professional handling and a quick, clean, clinical death.
By all means protest about the transport of animals for long journeys in unsafe lorries with poor watering/feedign/overcrowding - but the end of life is not a 'hell hole'.
However, for some horses, tethered with cruel, tight small headcollars, kept neglected with overgrown feet, underfed and riddled with worms, neglected or beaten,........... a swift death is far far preferable to the living hell they are enduring whilst alive.
Pity the living - e.g. support the Brooke HOspital - and leave the dead to the green pastures of horse heaven where their suffering is over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your point is valid but just to say that as humans we have the abilty to STOP and think when we decide to get on a plane or train or bus with a bomb....
leading a horse to his death after a journey to a place that smells like death is to me the lowest of the lowest of disrespect to a horse that might have served his human and given them the ego boost they crave every time they go to the stable yard to tack up....
i have 29 equines in my care all serving a purpos in my eyes and the eyes of there owners, there death will be to treat them with respect.
and YES i have been to slaughter houses and yes they are very grim. you can gloss over slaughter houses all you like but animals are not treated with respect, they are herded to a small crush and shot in the head, they have no choice but to go were they are herded.
just wanted to also point out that if you took a pampered dog to a slaughter house for slaughter he would shake whine and look in fear for his life.
horses dont show this kind of behaviour because hes a prey animal, showing fear is a sure way of being killed and eated...just becasue you cant see it does not mean he is in fear and suffering.
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE ???????
Modern slaughterhouses are NOT 'hell holes'. DEFRA, the EU and a load of paper pushing nimbys make sure that they are clean, hygenic and 'clinical'. Live animals in one end and carcasses out the other, all done with hygeine a prime concern to protect Joe Public who need cheap food and patronise Tesburys instead of real UK farmers food.
If you have never taken a domesticated animal to a slaughter house then you have no right to describe them as you have done above.
I love horses but I am also a pragmatic realist and accept that it is NOT possible for all horses to live out their time in green pastures as paddock ornaments as not all owners can afford to do this - retirement living or not. Furthermore not every horse is happy 'retired' - the same as applies to some people who 'fade away' when 'put out to pasture' by their employers.
In an ideal world every horse would be put down in its own field, and then buried there (except we aren't allowed, by the EU, to do that any longer).
However this is the REAL world and not an ideal, pink fluffy bunny hugging pseudo paradise. It is a world where foxes slaughter peoples pet chickens; humans slaugher each other using suicide bombers and other idiot megalomaniacs decide to 'go nuclear' to be one up on their neighbouring nations.
So in that context, idealism is a wonderful thing but realism rules. Realism means that horses will go to slaughter houses and be put down there.
I HAVE been to slaughter houses with my sheep, many times, and they have received nothing but professional handling and a quick, clean, clinical death.
By all means protest about the transport of animals for long journeys in unsafe lorries with poor watering/feedign/overcrowding - but the end of life is not a 'hell hole'.
However, for some horses, tethered with cruel, tight small headcollars, kept neglected with overgrown feet, underfed and riddled with worms, neglected or beaten,........... a swift death is far far preferable to the living hell they are enduring whilst alive.
Pity the living - e.g. support the Brooke HOspital - and leave the dead to the green pastures of horse heaven where their suffering is over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your point is valid but just to say that as humans we have the abilty to STOP and think when we decide to get on a plane or train or bus with a bomb....
leading a horse to his death after a journey to a place that smells like death is to me the lowest of the lowest of disrespect to a horse that might have served his human and given them the ego boost they crave every time they go to the stable yard to tack up....
i have 29 equines in my care all serving a purpos in my eyes and the eyes of there owners, there death will be to treat them with respect.
and YES i have been to slaughter houses and yes they are very grim. you can gloss over slaughter houses all you like but animals are not treated with respect, they are herded to a small crush and shot in the head, they have no choice but to go were they are herded.
just wanted to also point out that if you took a pampered dog to a slaughter house for slaughter he would shake whine and look in fear for his life.
horses dont show this kind of behaviour because hes a prey animal, showing fear is a sure way of being killed and eated...just becasue you cant see it does not mean he is in fear and suffering.
sleepingdragon10
Well-Known Member
Wonderfully put Airedale,have been trying to find a way to put those points across myself.
Whispersltd......it always amuses me when people whinge about comments made that differ from their own,and attribute said differences to some kind of forum mindset.
If "we" bother you that much, why do you frequent the forum at all?
That article was pure and utter emotive drivel....one always has to consider the source before making a decision as to the credibility of the "facts" as they are presented.
Whispersltd......it always amuses me when people whinge about comments made that differ from their own,and attribute said differences to some kind of forum mindset.
If "we" bother you that much, why do you frequent the forum at all?
That article was pure and utter emotive drivel....one always has to consider the source before making a decision as to the credibility of the "facts" as they are presented.
rema
Well-Known Member
I would rather have my horse put down in a regulated vet inspected u.k slaughterhouse than have it driven thousands of miles in a cramped truck to meet a not so hygenic,regulated and often slow and painfull death abroad any day!!.
k9h
Well-Known Member
They provide a necersarry service. It is quick & instant. Unlike my Mothers death, she fell down the stairs at her home in the night & had a massive brain hemorrage the surgeons decided not to operate as it would be of no benefit as she was brain dead. So the next day we turned of her life support machine, my brother, her brother our uncle & I stayed with her till she had 'gone'. This took an hour of us watchiong my Mother's body making the most horrid noises as it tried to function. There is NO WAY I would ever do that to any of my animals. That was inhumane as far as I am concerened. Whilst watching her body I just wanted to put a pillow over her head to end it quickly or even shot her. Heartless as it may seem but to watch her for that hour & I was only 23 at the time I would not want to repeat. I have had horses shot & am always with them when it is done. It is the best thing for alot of horses to prevent further suffering & to prevent live export.
airedale
Well-Known Member
horses do show fear as they are a 'flight' animal. my sheep live semi-wild. They aren't pets and aren't handled and they are a semi-feral breed - Shetlands. The ones that go to slaughter are the hoggets - the meat animals - that are handled even less than the ewes and lambs.
They wouldnt' shakte other than that induced by being in a strange place and a strange environmet as would any sentient animal. NOT becuase they knew it was a slaughter house.
Another thing to remember about animals. They pick up on the emotions and body language of the handler. If the handler of the animals as they pass into the slaughter zone is 'laid back' and 'normal' then the animal will pick up on that and itself be more or less relaxed.
If the handler is instead a bag of nerves and stressed out and crying and nervous then the animal, particularly a domesticated one, will pick up on this body language and react accordingly, wondering 'what the heck is my handler so bloody worried about'
so a LOT of the 'quality' of the end of an animals life - whehter at a slaughter house or at home - is down to the control and behaviour of their human at the end of their life.
both with the death of humans/family members and with the death of our 'pets' we owe a duty of care to help them pass over in a kind and mentally settled manner.
When my horses have had to be put down or any of my animals I do my crying the night before and then bottle down my emotions and behave around my animal the following day as if it was ANY NORMAL DAY. That way my animals - sheep, dogs, horses, chickens, geese, whatever - ALL don't know that the end is there until the bullet hits their skull.
with humans we all remember that the last sense to go is hearing. Any sick person will - even if apparently unconscious - still 'hear' things and that is an important thing to the terminally ill.
I work on the same principle with animals. The voice of the handler and hearing are the last senses. Most PROFESSIONAL slaughtermen are NOT brutal or anything else. It IS a job. it IS another form of being an undertaker and not a job that most of us would want to do.
Also - as humans - we tend to shy away from death. It is a 'taboo' subject. Other nations and cultures have a much more pragmatic attitude to death that perhaps our western 'civilised' society could learn from
over emotive attitudes at the time of death only make things worse and not better. If youcannot cope with the death of a person or a favourite pet, sometimes it is more honest to admit that you cannot cope and walk away and leave it to someone else then it is to be dishonest and 'struggle on' regardless.
Duty of care is a very 'politically correct' phrase but at the end of a life for which we are responsible we have a 'duty of care'. However this doesn't have to mean pink fluffy fields. It can mean professional, humane, slaughterhouses as controlled by the EU.
Other countries abroad - I have no comment on.
They wouldnt' shakte other than that induced by being in a strange place and a strange environmet as would any sentient animal. NOT becuase they knew it was a slaughter house.
Another thing to remember about animals. They pick up on the emotions and body language of the handler. If the handler of the animals as they pass into the slaughter zone is 'laid back' and 'normal' then the animal will pick up on that and itself be more or less relaxed.
If the handler is instead a bag of nerves and stressed out and crying and nervous then the animal, particularly a domesticated one, will pick up on this body language and react accordingly, wondering 'what the heck is my handler so bloody worried about'
so a LOT of the 'quality' of the end of an animals life - whehter at a slaughter house or at home - is down to the control and behaviour of their human at the end of their life.
both with the death of humans/family members and with the death of our 'pets' we owe a duty of care to help them pass over in a kind and mentally settled manner.
When my horses have had to be put down or any of my animals I do my crying the night before and then bottle down my emotions and behave around my animal the following day as if it was ANY NORMAL DAY. That way my animals - sheep, dogs, horses, chickens, geese, whatever - ALL don't know that the end is there until the bullet hits their skull.
with humans we all remember that the last sense to go is hearing. Any sick person will - even if apparently unconscious - still 'hear' things and that is an important thing to the terminally ill.
I work on the same principle with animals. The voice of the handler and hearing are the last senses. Most PROFESSIONAL slaughtermen are NOT brutal or anything else. It IS a job. it IS another form of being an undertaker and not a job that most of us would want to do.
Also - as humans - we tend to shy away from death. It is a 'taboo' subject. Other nations and cultures have a much more pragmatic attitude to death that perhaps our western 'civilised' society could learn from
over emotive attitudes at the time of death only make things worse and not better. If youcannot cope with the death of a person or a favourite pet, sometimes it is more honest to admit that you cannot cope and walk away and leave it to someone else then it is to be dishonest and 'struggle on' regardless.
Duty of care is a very 'politically correct' phrase but at the end of a life for which we are responsible we have a 'duty of care'. However this doesn't have to mean pink fluffy fields. It can mean professional, humane, slaughterhouses as controlled by the EU.
Other countries abroad - I have no comment on.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, how would you deal with the situation then?
Ok, I agree with you completly that in an ideal world, all the countries horses would be retired in hundreds of acres and live out their days with full tummies. When the time came, they could then be PTS at home and individually cremated.
However, this isnt realistic. While there are a LOT of people who would do this for their much loved horses (of which im one), there are a lot of people who cant or wont.
Keeping horses that way would be expensive and not something everyone can or would be prepared to do. Then of course there are the poor horses who end up in the hands of not so nice people.
So what is the solution?
If we banned the slaughter houses, wouldnt more horses just be left to rot in fields? More horses found starved to death or dead due to injuries? This is equally as cruel!
While I could easily be converted to the "ban the damn slaughter houses!" way of thinking, you've always got to consider the alterternatives and I havent seen any provided
I dont want horses to suffer anymore than the next person but at the end of the day, there arent enough people out there able and willing to pay out for retirement livery and "ideal" ends for all the horses in the country. Hell, if I could, I would!
Ok, I agree with you completly that in an ideal world, all the countries horses would be retired in hundreds of acres and live out their days with full tummies. When the time came, they could then be PTS at home and individually cremated.
However, this isnt realistic. While there are a LOT of people who would do this for their much loved horses (of which im one), there are a lot of people who cant or wont.
Keeping horses that way would be expensive and not something everyone can or would be prepared to do. Then of course there are the poor horses who end up in the hands of not so nice people.
So what is the solution?
If we banned the slaughter houses, wouldnt more horses just be left to rot in fields? More horses found starved to death or dead due to injuries? This is equally as cruel!
While I could easily be converted to the "ban the damn slaughter houses!" way of thinking, you've always got to consider the alterternatives and I havent seen any provided
I dont want horses to suffer anymore than the next person but at the end of the day, there arent enough people out there able and willing to pay out for retirement livery and "ideal" ends for all the horses in the country. Hell, if I could, I would!
k9h
Well-Known Member
I worked on foot & mouth as I care pasionately about animals & while anyone can handle dead stock not everyone can live stock. I worked closely with the slaughter men. The majority if not all animals were done with a bolt gun apart from lambs that were under a certain weight. One particular lamb I held for this vet & she injected it in the heart. 5 mins later the lamb was still breathing, she did this another 3 times till I took the poor mite to the slaughter man to get him to bolt it. The vet insisted that that was cruel. Yet stabbing it in the heart with chemicals umpteen times was not?? They were all professionals on the job & anyone that showed any disrespect to to any animal alive or dead was kicked off any farm I was working on. Yes it was a heart breaking job seeing generatoins of breeding gone in a few hours but I made sure it was done with respect & the cows that did have it WERE but out of a missery because there tongues just fell apart in your hand from the absscess there was no way they could eat like that & would of starved to death if left.
My point being that the bolt gun does kill it doesn't stun the animal. They were only bolted was & non had there throats slit as they did not need to bled which is to drain the blood out of the meat so that it can be eaten.
My point being that the bolt gun does kill it doesn't stun the animal. They were only bolted was & non had there throats slit as they did not need to bled which is to drain the blood out of the meat so that it can be eaten.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I Agree with the majority here. I am paritally opposed to slaughter houses and I believe it may be a bit like hunting, where are all those horses and hounds who would be shot?
I think people would turn more to kennels and other means of euthanasia than sending the horse to slaughter.
Actually, I am opposed to horse slaughter full stop. I don't think it is right, and I cannot agree with those who say they don't know what SORT of a place it is. They can smell the blood and death, we all know horses and other animals can so they must know something.
As to being unloaded in strange places...there's a world of difference between a show ground and a slaughterhouse.
I will consider signing, although the article is not inspiring and the whole thing a bit of a rubbish attempt, I think the author is genuinely concerned.
I think people would turn more to kennels and other means of euthanasia than sending the horse to slaughter.
Actually, I am opposed to horse slaughter full stop. I don't think it is right, and I cannot agree with those who say they don't know what SORT of a place it is. They can smell the blood and death, we all know horses and other animals can so they must know something.
As to being unloaded in strange places...there's a world of difference between a show ground and a slaughterhouse.
I will consider signing, although the article is not inspiring and the whole thing a bit of a rubbish attempt, I think the author is genuinely concerned.
airedale
Well-Known Member
for some horses - not probably/hopefully any owned by people here - a quick death at a slaughterhouse is far far preferable to the cruel, neglected, starved, beaten, abused life they lead whilst alive.
Also ironic that the sort of person who wrote the original article is probably a rabid anti-hunting person and yet would probably, like yourself, consider hunt kennels a preferable death for their horse than a slaughterhouse.
The phrase 'cake and eat it' springs to mind whenever this issue is raised. If it's OK to have hunt kennels then perforce it must be OK to have hunting. If you don't want hunting then don't be two-faced and rely on hunt kennels to despatch your old horse.
You say you are opposed to horse slaughter - but horse 'slaughter' is when an animal is put down. ANYWHERE. not just at a slaughter house.
Let's make this realistic and away from our cushioned TV couch potatoe society.
A horse is edible. People in this world are starving. Let the starving eat the horses.
Or another perspective. Bear in mind that I am very much a realist and very removed from a 'fluffy bunny hugger'...!!
Those who state they cannot bear the 'suffering' of a horse sent to 'slaughter' and then are quite happy to sit and watch the terrified chase of an african antelope as it is caught and slaughtered by a lion on Discovery or the latest Attenborough programme are being dishonest.
That antelope that you've just watched being killed and eaten by that african lion on that nice documentary on your nice digital TV is probably FAR FAR FAR more terrified at the end of it's life than any european horse going to a properly regulated EU slaughterhouse.
Lets stop living in fluffy bunny land and live in the real world
There is no excuse for animal cruelty but we are becoming very divorced from reality.
This discussion is bordering on the point where it is plain that people are almost at the level of thinking that milk arrives in plastic containers and lettuce arrives shrink wrapped.
Let's have a bit of reality, pragmatism and face the facts of life and death and not try and exist in a cushioned surreal world propogated by Hello magazine and Sky TV. !!!!!!!
Also ironic that the sort of person who wrote the original article is probably a rabid anti-hunting person and yet would probably, like yourself, consider hunt kennels a preferable death for their horse than a slaughterhouse.
The phrase 'cake and eat it' springs to mind whenever this issue is raised. If it's OK to have hunt kennels then perforce it must be OK to have hunting. If you don't want hunting then don't be two-faced and rely on hunt kennels to despatch your old horse.
You say you are opposed to horse slaughter - but horse 'slaughter' is when an animal is put down. ANYWHERE. not just at a slaughter house.
Let's make this realistic and away from our cushioned TV couch potatoe society.
A horse is edible. People in this world are starving. Let the starving eat the horses.
Or another perspective. Bear in mind that I am very much a realist and very removed from a 'fluffy bunny hugger'...!!
Those who state they cannot bear the 'suffering' of a horse sent to 'slaughter' and then are quite happy to sit and watch the terrified chase of an african antelope as it is caught and slaughtered by a lion on Discovery or the latest Attenborough programme are being dishonest.
That antelope that you've just watched being killed and eaten by that african lion on that nice documentary on your nice digital TV is probably FAR FAR FAR more terrified at the end of it's life than any european horse going to a properly regulated EU slaughterhouse.
Lets stop living in fluffy bunny land and live in the real world
There is no excuse for animal cruelty but we are becoming very divorced from reality.
This discussion is bordering on the point where it is plain that people are almost at the level of thinking that milk arrives in plastic containers and lettuce arrives shrink wrapped.
Let's have a bit of reality, pragmatism and face the facts of life and death and not try and exist in a cushioned surreal world propogated by Hello magazine and Sky TV. !!!!!!!
airedale
Well-Known Member
Both well said.
Where there is life there is death. That is a simple fact.
It is a fact for humans, domesticated animals, pet animals and wild animals.
Death is something that is a 'taboo' subject. It shouldn't be. I watch Holby City and their recent treatment of the issue of assisted suicide for a terminally ill woman and her decision to die before she totally lost all quality of life was sensitively handled and thought provoking.
As another poster said.....we actually with our animals have the ability to end their lives before their suffering becomes unbearable to them. At the moment in this country we don't have the same choice for a human being.
I do think that we are very skewed in our legislation in this country where animals get more protection than humans in regard to quality of life (e.g. the rules for the minimum size of a pig pen is actually large than the minimum space for an office worker - ponder that !!!)
Where there is life there is death. That is a simple fact.
It is a fact for humans, domesticated animals, pet animals and wild animals.
Death is something that is a 'taboo' subject. It shouldn't be. I watch Holby City and their recent treatment of the issue of assisted suicide for a terminally ill woman and her decision to die before she totally lost all quality of life was sensitively handled and thought provoking.
As another poster said.....we actually with our animals have the ability to end their lives before their suffering becomes unbearable to them. At the moment in this country we don't have the same choice for a human being.
I do think that we are very skewed in our legislation in this country where animals get more protection than humans in regard to quality of life (e.g. the rules for the minimum size of a pig pen is actually large than the minimum space for an office worker - ponder that !!!)
Faithkat
Well-Known Member
What an incredibly melodramatic statement! I've held a horse to be "shot" by captive bolt and the whole thing was quicker than instantaneous, in fact I was still holding the head collar after the horse had gone down as it went down more quickly than my reactions, there was a lot of blood but no other reaction/result.
I would also agree with Lucy_Spring re the price of euthanasia and disposal. Reading my vet's account from this time last year :
Euthanasia excluding drugs (inc VAT) = £62-44
50ml Somulose injection (inc VAT ) = £42-30
Disposal (mass cremation, in VAT) = £160
Which makes a total of £264-74
There was no call out as she was already at the equine hospital.
I think people are touchy about horses becaause of the relationship we have with them, there are just as/even more horrific slaughter stories about cattle, sheep and chickens but there is a different attititude to them. However, I am totally against live exports for slaughter which is a whole different ball game.
I would also agree with Lucy_Spring re the price of euthanasia and disposal. Reading my vet's account from this time last year :
Euthanasia excluding drugs (inc VAT) = £62-44
50ml Somulose injection (inc VAT ) = £42-30
Disposal (mass cremation, in VAT) = £160
Which makes a total of £264-74
There was no call out as she was already at the equine hospital.
I think people are touchy about horses becaause of the relationship we have with them, there are just as/even more horrific slaughter stories about cattle, sheep and chickens but there is a different attititude to them. However, I am totally against live exports for slaughter which is a whole different ball game.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
See, I never said I was anti hunting, just an example which springs to mind.
As to antelope, that's wildlife and yes it is terrified, but what exactly o you propose I do? Go and ask the nice lion to not eat the antelope?
However, I do believe that we have a responsibility to our animals and that it does not lie with sending them to slaughter (and yes, I mean at slaughter houses, which is blatantly obvious)
I found your reply rude in the extreme, I stated my opininon and a civil reply is the least you could do.
Yes, bad things happen, it doesn't mean you have to believe it's right.
As to antelope, that's wildlife and yes it is terrified, but what exactly o you propose I do? Go and ask the nice lion to not eat the antelope?
However, I do believe that we have a responsibility to our animals and that it does not lie with sending them to slaughter (and yes, I mean at slaughter houses, which is blatantly obvious)
I found your reply rude in the extreme, I stated my opininon and a civil reply is the least you could do.
Yes, bad things happen, it doesn't mean you have to believe it's right.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
Oh, and to add, I firmly believe we should all keep our own livestock and slaughter it ourselves, get our own milk and have chickens for eggs
Lucy_Ally
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I do hope you dont mean me by the above statement? i run a retirment livery for owners who love there horse for who he is and not what he can do for them and want a decent retirement because he deserves it and a peacefull end not a journey to a hell hole...sorry but any slaughter house is a hell hole, the stentch of death, blood and animals constantly calling out is HELL for any animal.
to be honest i expected the people on this site to pass the remarks they have bar a few (thank you for signing)
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please don't try and guilt trip people just because they don't agree with you. I may be hard faced, but I am a realist who actually loves my horse very much and appreciate every minute with her as I have had horses put to sleep in the past and seen first hand the inside of an abattoir. The abattoir at Taunton is very humane, there is no thrashing around and the end is swift and dignified for every horse. There is very little distress apart from my own as despite your opinion it does actually upset me, but I see it as a necessary evil. Until you have witnessed something first hand rather than gaining your knowledge from reading such flowery worded rubbish you have no right to judge me and whether or not I love my horse, who actually seems to adore her hard-faced owner.
I do hope you dont mean me by the above statement? i run a retirment livery for owners who love there horse for who he is and not what he can do for them and want a decent retirement because he deserves it and a peacefull end not a journey to a hell hole...sorry but any slaughter house is a hell hole, the stentch of death, blood and animals constantly calling out is HELL for any animal.
to be honest i expected the people on this site to pass the remarks they have bar a few (thank you for signing)
keep up the hard faces and stiff backs and you will never know what it feels like to REALLY love an animal for who he is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please don't try and guilt trip people just because they don't agree with you. I may be hard faced, but I am a realist who actually loves my horse very much and appreciate every minute with her as I have had horses put to sleep in the past and seen first hand the inside of an abattoir. The abattoir at Taunton is very humane, there is no thrashing around and the end is swift and dignified for every horse. There is very little distress apart from my own as despite your opinion it does actually upset me, but I see it as a necessary evil. Until you have witnessed something first hand rather than gaining your knowledge from reading such flowery worded rubbish you have no right to judge me and whether or not I love my horse, who actually seems to adore her hard-faced owner.
watcherathome
Well-Known Member
I won't sign, we need more slaughterhouses, not less, so that horses can be put to sleep without the distress of a long journey. This is the worse kind or hysterical reporting that lowers the repute of genuine welfare work
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
Complete bullsh*t!!!
There is only one licenced slaughter house in this country. I currently pop down on odd weeks collecting material for university research and I can categorically say that none of this stuff goes on. They slaughter 2 days a week so where they get there every 4 minutes or whatever thing from I have no idea.
They want to do something useful? Go search out real cruelty and stop clutching at straws!!
There is only one licenced slaughter house in this country. I currently pop down on odd weeks collecting material for university research and I can categorically say that none of this stuff goes on. They slaughter 2 days a week so where they get there every 4 minutes or whatever thing from I have no idea.
They want to do something useful? Go search out real cruelty and stop clutching at straws!!
Lucy_Ally
Well-Known Member
Do you go down to Taunton then? May see you around there! Lol!!
Actually there are 3 abattoirs licenced for horses, Taunton, Romford and Nantwich in Chesire.
Actually there are 3 abattoirs licenced for horses, Taunton, Romford and Nantwich in Chesire.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Can i ask a dumb question then?
(perhaps a morbid question rather)
Whats the difference between the slaughter houses and the "knacker man" kinda person?
Reason I ask is where Im situated (derbyshire) theres a guy up here who advertises in the horse and hound and is well known for putting horses down. Always upsets me because when I did used to hack out, Id go past his place and there would be horses in the fields waiting to be PTS.
Heard various horror stories about this place (prolly not true mind)! But can someone explain to me?
Sorry - the two horses i lost - one was PTS at home then taken for cremation. The other was PTS at an equine hospital and then cremated there :/
Whats the difference between the slaughter houses and the "knacker man" kinda person?
Reason I ask is where Im situated (derbyshire) theres a guy up here who advertises in the horse and hound and is well known for putting horses down. Always upsets me because when I did used to hack out, Id go past his place and there would be horses in the fields waiting to be PTS.
Heard various horror stories about this place (prolly not true mind)! But can someone explain to me?
Sorry - the two horses i lost - one was PTS at home then taken for cremation. The other was PTS at an equine hospital and then cremated there :/
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do you go down to Taunton then? May see you around there! Lol!!
Actually there are 3 abattoirs licenced for horses, Taunton, Romford and Nantwich in Chesire.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then I was mis-informed one of lecturers told me everywhere else had closed, I thought same as you then!!
Prob wont be down there for little bit, been collecting gut parts to study worms *nice*
Do you go down to Taunton then? May see you around there! Lol!!
Actually there are 3 abattoirs licenced for horses, Taunton, Romford and Nantwich in Chesire.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then I was mis-informed one of lecturers told me everywhere else had closed, I thought same as you then!!
Prob wont be down there for little bit, been collecting gut parts to study worms *nice*
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Can i ask a dumb question then? <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (perhaps a morbid question rather)
Whats the difference between the slaughter houses and the "knacker man" kinda person?
Reason I ask is where Im situated (derbyshire) theres a guy up here who advertises in the horse and hound and is well known for putting horses down. Always upsets me because when I did used to hack out, Id go past his place and there would be horses in the fields waiting to be PTS.
Heard various horror stories about this place (prolly not true mind)! But can someone explain to me? <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Sorry - the two horses i lost - one was PTS at home then taken for cremation. The other was PTS at an equine hospital and then cremated there :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Abbatoirs buy the horse from you and the carcass can go for human consumption/pet food (mainly abroad)
Can i ask a dumb question then? <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (perhaps a morbid question rather)
Whats the difference between the slaughter houses and the "knacker man" kinda person?
Reason I ask is where Im situated (derbyshire) theres a guy up here who advertises in the horse and hound and is well known for putting horses down. Always upsets me because when I did used to hack out, Id go past his place and there would be horses in the fields waiting to be PTS.
Heard various horror stories about this place (prolly not true mind)! But can someone explain to me? <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Sorry - the two horses i lost - one was PTS at home then taken for cremation. The other was PTS at an equine hospital and then cremated there :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Abbatoirs buy the horse from you and the carcass can go for human consumption/pet food (mainly abroad)
riotgirl
Well-Known Member
Yep, Turners in Nantwich is still open - I live just down the road from it.
fairhill
Well-Known Member
There was an interesting article in the observer a few weeks ago about two of the slaughterhouses in Britain:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1884945,00.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1884945,00.html