STOP THE SLAUGHTER..

[Dogbetty141]

Why the hell is everyone arguing about this you either agree and sign it or you dont and dont write anything.

I have signed the petition.

I would prefer the Vet to have any horse PTS

 

[happyhack]

cant see it

 

[AmyMay]

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Why the hell is everyone arguing about this you either agree and sign it or you dont and dont write anything.

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It's called a discussion .

 

[fairhill]

Sorry, I can't get it to link properly - you'll have to copy and paste the whole thing.

 

[sojeph]

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Why the hell is everyone arguing about this you either agree and sign it or you dont and dont write anything.

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It's called a discussion .

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Discussion..Mmmm...don't think so. I don't see any discussion here - just angry and rude replies IMO.

 

[Tierra]

Thanks Fairhill - got the link working and that was an interesting article.

The figures given at the end are rather heartbreaking

 

[Dogbetty141]

Discussion..Mmmm...don't think so. I don't see any discussion here - just angry and rude replies IMO.

I hope i copied that right dont really know how to do it. People need to either to stop being so horrible to one another, all different people will have all different views accept that dont try and change it.

How do you quote something??

 

[sojeph]

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Discussion..Mmmm...don't think so. I don't see any discussion here - just angry and rude replies IMO.

I hope i copied that right dont really know how to do it. People need to either to stop being so horrible to one another, all different people will have all different views accept that dont try and change it.

How do you quote something??

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Press quote (next to reply) at top of this box and reply underneath.

 

[burtie]

Given the very emotive subject matter, I think it has stayed very civil. I happen to beleive very strongly that banning the slaughter of horses would be the worst thing that could ever happen for horse welfare in this country. Obviously there are those who believe equally strongly the other way. I have yet to see what they propose as a workable alternative?

 

[no_no_nanette]

Thank goodness so far never had to have a horse pts - BUT know people who have had to, and the very strong general opinion seems to be that the kindest possible option, if available to you, is the hunt kennels : death is instant, in their own environment, and tucking into bucket of feed. The problem with vets is some people can't afford the cost and also horses often fight against the anaesthetic, and are scared of/upset by the injection. But the answer with abattoirs is continuing really stiff inspection, absolutely NOT banning live horse slaughter - its just naive to think that if you do that, it won't increase live horse transport which is much, much worse.

 

[happyhack]

OK got the link working
very informative article

 

[Tierra]

Agree with Burtie, I think its stayed very civil! The thing that caused the biggest grumble was the original poster basically accusing people of not caring about their horses which isnt fair or true.

As for why its a discussion - I posted way back that im one of the people who could easily be persuaded to sign such a petition because I despise the thought of horses suffering. What I asked for, was a viable alternative and that hasnt been given. While it would be fantastic for all horses to retire in a nice big field and live out their entire lives, I dont see how this is practical because I dont see how that can be funded.

 

[AmyMay]

Very interesting article, and it does make for sobering reading. However, I think that for many TB's rehoming can ultimately be incredibly difficult, if nie on impossible. Better to be humanely destroyed, than abandoned. I'm not saying I advocate mass slaughter - just trying to be a realist.

It does also go to show however, that none of us ever need buy a horse again. I know of more than several ex race horses / failed race horses given away free to a good home. One is at my old yard. Purchased for a huge amount of money as a yearling - raced reasobly well until it was about 8 and now is a very happy hack. The girl that has him now didn't pay a penny for him. So it can be done.

 

[burrows]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell is everyone arguing about this you either agree and sign it or you dont and dont write anything.

I have signed the petition.

I would prefer the Vet to have any horse PTS

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason for the discussion on this subject is because it is unfair that abattoirs are getting such bad press like this and it is because people dont understand and have never experienced it. It is unfair that the people that have experienced abattoir and are telling it how it really is are being told that they dont know how to really love their horses as this is not true at all. I have had horses all my life and I have given up many things to study welfare issues in horses. I personally have experience of abattoir and find it very frustrating that people say these things about something they dont really understand! Therefore the discussion has developed to show people the other side of the story so to speak, that the horses are treated with respect and are not abused as this british slaughter website makes out.

 

[burtie]

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However, I think that for many TB's rehoming can ultimately be incredibly difficult, if nie on impossible.

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Totally agree, I have had in the past and love ex-racers but they are not for the majority of 'pleasure' riders. There is a good reason why ex racers are free and coloured cobs command amazing prices.

 

[fairhill]

There was a follow up article the following week, which shows how a little knowledge (and some celebrity backing) can be a dangerous thing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/animalrights/story/0,,1890442,00.html

Apologies for the link again (how do you get them active??)

There is a nice quote at the end from the BHB:
Quote:
The British Horseracing Board, which governs the industry, said there was no evidence that a ban was necessary.
We work closely with animal welfare groups like the RSPCA and the International League for the Protection of Horses. Unfortunately some horses need to be put down, for example if they are injured.

'Our concern is simply they are put down in the most humane way possible. We do not have a view what happens after that.'

 

[AmyMay]

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'Our concern is simply they are put down in the most humane way possible. We do not have a view what happens after that.'

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Without reading the whole article - have to say that seems fair.

 

[airedale]

I also don't see how we can avoid death. Even horses retired to green pastures (and lets accept that it doesn't suit all horses to be stuffed out in a field - some do get bored and it just doesn't suit them).

Horses - as with ourselves and other animals - all have to die sometimes

As I posted last night - the difference is that animals are put down at the decision of humans - but humans are not given the same right in this country (other than suicide) to decide when to die. (Anyone else watch Holby City and their treatment over the last few weeks of the issue of assisted suicide for a terminally ill person. Very well done and thought provoking).

For many animals the conditions in which they are kept means that a quick death is an improvement on a suffering life. For others illness makes the decision to die necessary.

Westerners find the discussion of death difficult generally and avoid it. Other societies are more pragmatic and realistic. We skirt round the issue and this 'death avoidance' also comes out when slaughter of livestock or the putting down of pets, including horses, comes under discussion.

Another aspect of the avoidance of the discussion of death comes round to 'attacks' on those of us who can and will accept that death is inevitable and part of life. We aren't being 'hard' or 'uncaring' or 'horrible'. We are being 'realistic'.

In that regard slaughter under EU standards is perfectly acceptable. What is not acceptable and has been said above and below - is the transport of live animals NOT JUST HORSES I might add - for hours across thousands of miles - to a slaughter house when slaughter close to home is available. I have signed many petitions on that issue and would again.

However it is NOT just horses. Are people aware that the Tesburys of this world have 'designated' slaughter houses for their beef, sheep, pigs. So cattle from Devon for example for Waitrose can be shipped to Northampton to die because that is Waitroses slaughter house. Then pigs for Tesco's can be shipped from Northumberland to Cardiff for a similar reason - and all totally unnecessary and stupid.

The slaughter houses aren't bad in the EU. It's the travelling of sick or elderly animals hundreds of miles that is wrong.

Try to accept that death is a part of life - for all living species - and then discuss the ending of a horses life in a realistic and unemotive way.

I also don't think that this has been a rude discussion, merely one on an emotive topic that some people find difficult to accept, let alone discuss, and not just for horses.

 

[aran]

"WE KNOW THAT NOT ALL SLAUGHTER HOUSES ARE HELL HOLES "

no UK horse slaughter house is (including potters) - cruelty does exist in the UK but not in our slaughter houses. it is their job to deliver a quick pain free unstressful death and i have not seen them fail on my many trips their (for research purposes).

i cannot speak for any other country - i havent been to any of their abbatoirs. thats one reason why i only eat british meat as i have faith that the meat i eat has a higher chance of a good life and a swift undistressing death.

 

[AmyMay]

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it is their job to deliver a quick pain free unstressful death and i have not seen them fail on my many trips their

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That is hugely reasuring. It's interesting that really positive comments are comming from people who have actually been to abatoirs. Thanks BB's and Aran and others.

 

[Lucy_Ally]

To Sojeph - I have not seen anyone being rude. All my posts have been civil and I have not called names but told it how I see it, which is how an intelligent and informed discussion should be.
It frustrates me that people can live in such denial about animal welfare, I consider myself an animal lover and have been fortunate enough to grow up on a farm and have animals around me all my life. My own personal choice is to have my horse pts at home should the time come, but this is not because the slaughtermen are cold heartless b*stards, it is because I wouldn't make my horse endure a 4 hour trip to Taunton to be put down in a place she didn't know surrounded by strangers. But like another poster said - for some the abattoir is nothing like the "hell" that they have endured at the hands of their owners. I have seen the slaughtermen very upset at some of the neglect cases that end up with them and know for a fact that most of them have farms or breed or own horses.
For those of you that are unsure about slaughterhouses - they are not a nice place that much is true. Anywhere that involves death of animals is not pleasant (think of farms struck by foot and mouth), but they are not the "hell holes" portrayed on that site, the slaughterman always gives the horse a reassuring pat and chats away to them and they follow him quite happily into the area where they are killed, there is no thrashing and running around. The end is swift and dignified and what happens once the horse is dead happens to all the meat that you or I eat, there is a vet on hand at all times to ensure the utmost welfare for the horses.

The difference between a knackerman and the abattoir is that the knackerman will come out to you and kill the horse and take the body away (usually sells the carcass to the abattoir or kennels), at the abattoir you have to take your horse to them or they will collect your horse alive and kill it back at the abattoir. Both the knackerman and abattoir usually give you money for the carcass.

 

[happyhack]

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the difference is that animals are put down at the decision of humans - but humans are not given the same right in this country

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and if horses COULD decide, im sure they wouldnt wanttheir life to end in this way?
I could never do that to a horse. I will never send a horse to slaughter or hunt kennels. Mine will hopefully go by injection and then cremation. This is MY opinion and is what I would like to do, i appreciate circumstances and change and if my horse breaks a leg or something then it will be a different decision.

 

[aran]

"leading a horse to his death after a journey to a place that smells like death is to me the lowest of the lowest of disrespect to a horse "

a horse has no idea what is coming - they dont know what death is, have no idea what blood is and cant smell it - you are putting human emotions on to an animal which doesnt have any. they will panic if frightened therefore are treated carmly and so dont worry about it. yes its a strange environment but so is a show ground. if you dont give them reason to get scared they dont

"they are herded to a small crush and shot in the head"
not the ones i've seen - they are lead, handled quietly and then without fuss shot with a captive bullet in the head - they have no idea its coming and will never fear as they are dead with no pain.

 

[sojeph]

Ok so maybe they're not all rude but whenever someone starts up this sort of debate it seems alot of what they get back is ridicule! I don't like ridicule - just my opinion thats all!!!

 

[lizstuguinness]

well said SJFAN....... personaly i'd always use jab method if practical.

if the bullet hits the wrong part due to a slight movement by the horse ........

i shudder at that thought.

however i have never had to end the life of my horses. i have alwayd had babies and tend to sell them on by the age of 10. that way they have a long usefull life with the next owner before their time comes. hopefully due to old age.
im a coward i know.

 

[aran]

i to would prefer that we had mobile slaughter houses so that animals are transported as little as possible and then sold the meat locally - however the end result is the same - a quick swift painfree end. the horses i see arent freaking, screaming - they are munching hay, being led by a friendly guy and having their ear scratched by a man who then quietly shots them - there is no histeria at all.

 

[happyhack]

thank you. i feel wrong for expressing my opinion, I thought that that was what these types of forum were for!! I dont see why I should have to justify my opinions

 

[airedale]

whilst I accept that cremation is a choice for some for both humans and animals.........to put another 'spin' on this discussion...........in the week where the Stern report on global warming has been published............are we right to continue with cremation or is burial (or in the case of animals, slaugher and use of the carcass for human or animal food) a more environmentally friendly option ????

also - having had a horse murdered in an arson - there is no way I would ever subject my animals to cremation. The thought of burning them - even when dead - is abhorrent to me. However many global ethnic groups and religions do cremate their dead and we have to accept that each person/group are different.

Choice is supposed to be a freedom that we still are meant to enjoy in this country (although with the nanny state I do sometimes wonder....)

 

[riotgirl]

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"leading a horse to his death after a journey to a place that smells like death is to me the lowest of the lowest of disrespect to a horse

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I live near Turners and often hack past it. Interestingly, it is my dog who gets distressed going past. Her hackles are raised and she is very uneasy until we go past. My horse on the other hand does not bother at all. I doubt she even knows it is there!

 

[happyhack]

[ QUOTE ]
having had a horse murdered in an arson

[/ QUOTE ] its not like i'll be walking them into an open furnace and waving goodbye with a smile!!!!!!!

I could never ever send my horse to slaughter. i could not live with myself not knowing where his body had gone to.