Stressed

[jrp204]

Just updating you.
Rspca have returned, good but not good enough was the verdict. They want the vet back to decided whether he is put to sleep or not. Id like to add this is nothing to do with my financial situation, but a pre planned visit by the rspca. Vet will call me later and probably visit next wednesday.

It does appear from this that the vet visit on Weds has been arranged by the RSPCA, please wait for some advice before allowing this to happen.
"The rspca have no powers of entry so would be trespassing. They have no powers to order the destruction of any animal. Only the courts, a vet or animal health inspector can order that." Direct quote from an Animal Health Officer.

Jess, where does your yard owner stand in all this?

 

[JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic]

Shes doesnt stand anywhere, its not a livery yard, just a series of rented fields. Shes an elderly lady who has not given the rspca permission to enter, i spoke to her last night.

Millymoomin, i cant give her name out, i wouldnt want to think of the repercussions of doing that. They will not be there on wednesday, the vet assured me she was coming for me. Not them, and if i wanted her to report back to them i had to give permission and it be done as a written report.

Its wednesday, i arranged this because its my closest day off. The rspca said in the next week on the phone and 10-14 days on their notice

 

[martlin]

Jessi, are you having your vet visit because the RSPCA have asked you to? If so, don't.

 

[jrp204]

Jess, the RSPCA have no right to come onto the land. They are bullying you. I wish I was closer! Tell the RSPCA they cannot access the land without consent.

 

[AmyMay]

Jessi, are you having your vet visit because the RSPCA have asked you to? If so, don't.

But what would the repercussions be?

 

[martlin]

But what would the repercussions be?

It's all very wrong in this situation, as far as I can work out. The RSPCA visited for some reason, not clear why, they demand the horse be PTS? The vet sounds rather weird in the quotes Jessi put here, talking about homes forever and all sorts, it sounds to me as the vet is ''siding'' with the RSPCA here, whilst claiming to be on Jessi's side. And what is she coming out for anyway? The horse is getting better every day, as far as we know there isn't health issues other than being underfed.
I would imagine RSPCA might demand the horse to be vet examined, if so, they can arrange this, I wouldn't be giving them a hand. Also, I would defo get Prince on the books with another vet, just to avoid any possible conflict of interest.

 

[Jenni_]

Get every page of your blog printed out, all the pictures labelled with what weight he was and the date. Show the donations of food that were made... the lot! If anything the fact that there is evidence of a whole forum supporting you might be enough for them to reel their bullying in.

Your pictures show a MASSIVE improvement. I seen a few of my friends TB's come out our last Scottish winter looking worse than prince is now as we had a horrendous quick change in conditions. They joked that they should be hiding their horses incase the SSPCA stumbled across them despite rigorous feeding and rugging... doesn't seem as funny now

Shame I'm not closer, or I'd have come and supported you. As a women-mountain of a boxer, put me infront of a horses stable door and there's not many wee RSPCA inspectors going to get past me! And I can talk the talk when the need arises too.

Massive hugs. Thinking of you xx

 

[Sven]

Jenni makes a good point, if you put together a file of your involvement with Prince, from the failed earlier response of the RSPCA to the help from BHS, the date he became yours, (just in case they are actually investigating the old owner not you!) the photographic evidence of his improvement and the forum trail. You can demonstrate the fantastic job you've done, your commitment to Prince and your other equines. Get it all in writing and give to the RSPCA with witnesses and make sure you keep copies.

Good luck, chin up xx

 

[MillyMoomie]

Jessi, what repercussions? Cards are left all over the place with Insp names on. Plus you have blog and all this on a public forum. Plus I'm not asking you to put it in the thread.

Don't worry. If you don't wish to say that's ok. I can find out anyway and will do. But if there is anything you might want to add then PM me anyway

 

[southerncomfort]

Shocking behaviour from the the RSPCA!

I personally would refuse them access to the land. Send them your printed out blog with details of the many ways in which they failed this poor horse, and threaten to send the lot to the Daily Mail if they continue bullying you in to destroying a horse whose health is improving under your dedicated care.

I hate the DM with a passion but they've done quite a few anti-RSPCA stories over the past year, I'm sure they'd love another one!

 

[JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic]

Jessi, what repercussions? Cards are left all over the place with Insp names on. Plus you have blog and all this on a public forum. Plus I'm not asking you to put it in the thread.

Don't worry. If you don't wish to say that's ok. I can find out anyway and will do. But if there is anything you might want to add then PM me anyway

She doesnt leave her name, just the inspector number, i only know her name because my vet told me last time she saw prince so its clear she doesnt want me to have it, let alone give it out. Your welcome to find out but thats your choice and curiousity, that way it doesnt affect anything to do with me.

 

[southerncomfort]

Also, would it be worth getting one of the welfare organisations involved such as EMW? They rehab horses like this all the time and could maybe convince the RSPCA that it's worth carrying on with Prince for a while longer?

 

[Spring Feather]

Oh my goodness, I've only just looked at this thread and am appalled. I don't know how the RSPCA works in the UK nowadays but over here the SPCA can (and do) seize horses they deem inappropriately cared for. All they need is a police warrant and presence to come on anyone's land and a vet to give their opinion and if negative then the SPCA can take possession of said horse. This seizing is almost always done after many visits and offering up time for the owners to improve the situation of the horse.

My first piece of advice is to ditch your vet. Immediately. Please do this straight away. I feel there is a huge conflict of interest going on. Try and find another vet who will stand up for the horse's best interests and not be browbeaten by any organisation. You have your blog and anyone with even the slightest bit of horse knowledge can see the horse has improved in the few weeks you've been his guardian.

I can't physically help and I'm not sure anything I could write out for you can be of any use to you but I have rehabbed a number of SPCA cases for our SPCA over here so have loads of photos and diary records of their progress.

 

[Moomin1]

Does it not occur to anybody that maybe all the RSPCA officer is saying is to consider pts IF the vet feels he hasn't improved to the level he should? It would be a pretty sensible thing to suggest.

I think there are elements to the story which are not quite accurate.

 

[Holding]

I have PM'd you Jess, please reply when you can and let me know what I can do to help. If the vet genuinely thinks that Prince is suffering and has underlying conditions that mean he will not recover, then of course the right thing to do would be PTS. But if it's a question of time and money, then I'm sure we can work something out.

 

[jrp204]

Maybe, but since he was only handed over in Aug surely it is rather quick to be suggesting PTS? The horse hasn't got a broken leg. Going by the photos he does seem to have improved over that short time and is seeming in good spirits. Hardly a chronic welfare case (now). If he was that bad the RSPCA would have had the police involved.
Is the officer new to the job? Maybe a bit keen or the uniform has gone to their head...a little bit of power.

 

[Moomin1]

Maybe, but since he was only handed over in Aug surely it is rather quick to be suggesting PTS? The horse hasn't got a broken leg. Going by the photos he does seem to have improved over that short time and is seeming in good spirits. Hardly a chronic welfare case (now). If he was that bad the RSPCA would have had the police involved.

Yes exactly. That's why I am saying that IMO, the story in it's entirety has not been given.

 

[MissTyc]

Hope you're not paying for this Wednesday vet visit?

In fact I would cancel vet and then start ringing around alternative equine clinics and get a new vet who does not also serve the rspca. If all is as it sounds, then some serious bullying tactics going on here. Stick a new rug on horse, say old horse sold to an unnamed party...

 

[Moomin1]

Hope you're not paying for this Wednesday vet visit?

In fact I would cancel vet and then start ringing around alternative equine clinics and get a new vet who does not also serve the rspca. If all is as it sounds, then some serious bullying tactics going on here. Stick a new rug on horse, say old horse sold to an unnamed party...

OP if I were you I SERIOUSLY wouldn't follow some of the advice given on this thread. Allow the vet (yes, the same vet if you are happy with that vet normally - vets have a duty to remain unbiased and objective in their work, and certainly won't 'alter' things to suit the RSPCA) and follow the vet's advice. If you aren't happy with what the vet advises, then get a second opinion. By failing to follow the vet's advice you are potentially committing an offence and could see yourself under a lot of scrutiny.

 

[JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic]

Does it not occur to anybody that maybe all the RSPCA officer is saying is to consider pts IF the vet feels he hasn't improved to the level he should? It would be a pretty sensible thing to suggest.

This is what i said. The officer said that if significate weight has not been put on then he is to be put down. If significant weight has been gained, then he will be signed off. I assume this means from their records. The officer then added that he has not put on significant weight and is still grossly underweight and has only had minor improvements.
Your welcome to your opinion about whether im editing the story or not, but do remember your not the one answering these calls, caring for the horse and making the desicions. Its hard to convey everything to the forum if you arent sat directly beside me, listening to everything and been around for the vet checks ect.

 

[Moomin1]

This is what i said. The officer said that if significate weight has not been put on then he is to be put down. If significant weight has been gained, then he will be signed off. I assume this means from their records. The officer then added that he has not put on significant weight and is still grossly underweight and has only had minor improvements.
Your welcome to your opinion about whether im editing the story or not, but do remember your not the one answering these calls, caring for the horse and making the desicions. Its hard to convey everything to the forum if you arent sat directly beside me, listening to everything and been around for the vet checks ect.

No you're completely correct, I'm not. That's why I advise to follow all the advice your vet is giving you, and if not satisfied with that advice, get a second opinion. The RSPCA will I am quite sure be happy with the vet's opinion on what you should do, after all, it is the vet's opinion which would be needed to enforce any pts with a police officer's powers if that vet feels the horse is suffering or likely to do so, and the owner refuses.

 

[JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic]

The last bit sounded harsh, what i mean is its hard to pass over every scrap of information when im trying to process it all myself. vet is coming, to check him over for my sake, and because the rspca have ordered me to get a vet out within 10-14 days. I feel that by not getting the vet out it looks like im hiding something, its also good to check up on princes liver damage and heart condition.

The vet will be coming on wednesday and a HHO member will be coming with a clear and realistic mind to handle the vet check with me

 

[MissTyc]

OP if I were you I SERIOUSLY wouldn't follow some of the advice given on this thread. Allow the vet (yes, the same vet if you are happy with that vet normally - vets have a duty to remain unbiased and objective in their work, and certainly won't 'alter' things to suit the RSPCA) and follow the vet's advice. If you aren't happy with what the vet advises, then get a second opinion. By failing to follow the vet's advice you are potentially committing an offence and could see yourself under a lot of scrutiny.

What offence? If the thread is correct she hasn't been served with any papers?
I'm not saying DON'T get any vet, I'm just calling the whole situation into question to be honest. There seems to be a serious conflict of interest here. If the rspca is requesting a vet to attend, then yes of course cooperate if need be, but if the rspca is genuinely going to have the horse put down in response to this vet's opinion (without court order AND making the OP pay for it??) then surely OP shouldn't lie down and take it? This entirely thing is ridiculous, I really hope MP and Press are involved by now and will remind the rspca not to overstep the mark.

 

[Moomin1]

The last bit sounded harsh, what i mean is its hard to pass over every scrap of information when im trying to process it all myself. vet is coming, to check him over for my sake, and because the rspca have ordered me to get a vet out within 10-14 days. I feel that by not getting the vet out it looks like im hiding something, its also good to check up on princes liver damage and heart condition.

The vet will be coming on wednesday and a HHO member will be coming with a clear and realistic mind to handle the vet check with me

Then there's no problem!

Not sure what the panic is all about. If the vet feels he has improved, and isn't suffering, or likely to, and is happy for things to continue, then the RSPCA I am quite sure will be. It is the vet's opinion the RSPCA will want. That's all.

 

[Moomin1]

What offence? If the thread is correct she hasn't been served with any papers?
I'm not saying DON'T get any vet, I'm just calling the whole situation into question to be honest. There seems to be a serious conflict of interest here. If the rspca is requesting a vet to attend, then yes of course cooperate if need be, but if the rspca is genuinely going to have the horse put down in response to this vet's opinion (without court order AND making the OP pay for it??) then surely OP shouldn't lie down and take it? This entirely thing is ridiculous, I really hope MP and Press are involved by now and will remind the rspca not to overstep the mark.

Seriously, don't be ridiculous.

What significance has being 'served with papers' got to do with committing an offence? I am quite sure people don't have to get served with papers to commit offences! If OP does not follow vet advice, and that vet feels that her horse is suffering, and should be pts, then a police officer can and will use powers under the Animal Welfare Act to get the horse pts. The cost wouldn't necessarily have to be met by OP. The RSPCA may pay, they quite often do where they have intervened in that respect. OP is fully entitled to get another vet's opinion too, which is what I have advised.

 

[doriangrey]

From the recent photos of Prince he is improving. How can the RSPCA or even any vet worth their salt recommend that this horse be put down considering his welfare has significantly improved and he has put on weight since he has been signed over to Jessi? If he hadn't put on any weight or he has some underlying condition that means he won't improve then OK, but this just sounds like utter nonsense and they should go and rescue some of the real welfare cases out there. I'd be making like Farmer Palmer and telling them to 'get orf my laand'!

 

[Wolves]

I have just sat and read through all your threads and blog Jess, I really hope things work out. I have everything crossed for you x

 

[AmyMay]

Moomin - do Jess a favour and back off. Please.

 

[Goldenstar]

Jessi just off out ( mum has had a stroke today and you may hear that a HHO member has strangled her father )Just wanted to say chin up lots of people are routing for you and the offer I made last night stands if you change your mind .

 

[Moomin1]

Moomin - do Jess a favour and back off. Please.

Actually, I was trying to help OP, by providing her with the truth about what can and may happen should she refuse to have her horse pts if a vet deems it necessary to alleviate suffering. Simples. If that offends, then sorry, I should have told a pack of lies.

My advice to OP was based around the above fact, and stands. OP should listen to what the vet advises, and either follow that advice, in which case the RSPCA will be happy, or get a second opinion from another vet if displeased with that advice. If second vet then disagrees for whatever reason with first vet (highly unlikely) then it is down to the vets to provide reasons behind their opinions. Either way, it is down to the vets to make the decision on whether he is suffering or likely to, in the eyes of the law. RSPCA will be satisfied if the vets are. Simple.

Alternatively, OP could ignore vet advice, in which case the first case scenario I mention may occur. Or she could take the advice of some others here, and try to 'hide' said horse or remove it, in which case RSPCA will become extremely suspicious and probably step the gear up further.