Stuck, mis sold horse

[The Jokers Girl]

But the seller, having only just found out there is a problem, has offered to take the horse back (albeit refunding the money in instalments).

I agree Rowreach, the dealer offered to remedy the situation
I find it quite unfair that this dealer is being accused of being unscrupulous when it just seems that an inexperienced buyer who has exaggerated their ability doesn't want the horse anymore as they can't cope. I don't think the consumer rights act 2015 covers that sort of thing. The same as if I bought an audi r8 and decided 4 months later it was a bit powerful for me and I lost control on a corner that wouldn't cover me under consumer rights act to return it.
The act only covers faulty goods not inexperienced owners.

Edited to say also if you went to view a horse that was thin and covered in rain scold would you really tack it up have a ride in an open field and do some xc jumps. I do feel something is off with this whole post from OP

Extract
no I didn’t have him vetted, I did try him and he was no problem at all, I made sure I could do his girth up, handled him in the stable, got on in a open field, jumped him cross country in their field and no problems, he also loaded fine that time.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

But the seller, having only just found out there is a problem, has offered to take the horse back (albeit refunding the money in instalments).

Does that sound like a trustworthy person to do business with? I wouldn't expect to get my money in those circumstances, tbh. Which reputable dealer can you imagine refunding in installments. And what would the law say about getting all your money back if you have accepted an arrangement like that? I expect that if OP returned the horse she would want to look for another one as soon as possible.

 

[stormox]

hunted in ireland would be a warning bell for me

and what proper training did he get as a youngster before hunting for a season and at what age did he hunt

op sounds like if he cant even pull up he has not had a proper education before you got him, and everyone knows there is a huge possibility a thin quiet horse will change completely when a well fed conditioned one

his whole way of behaving is awful, he needs someone who can take a load of no notice of it and who can back off when needed yet be confident round him to bring him to a place where he can be re educated, not impossible if he has never learned in the first place how to be with people

i would get him checked out by the vet, and look for someone who is really good around horses on the ground, forget ridden work to start, someone like michael peace

and so sorry this has happened, and hope it goes the other way for you and the horse soon, whatever road you go down.

we have one come here recently, the old owner asked the other day, has he tried to kick you yet or gone mad, er no,

This horse has been to the Royal International and done working hunter classes. So what if he'd hunted in Ireland? So have a lot of very good horses.
He must have had a very good standard of education to do high level working hunter classes and qualify for RI.
I feel so sorry for this horse who has obviously known top class handling and treatment and is now down on his luck.

 

[tristar]

This horse has been to the Royal International and done working hunter classes. So what if he'd hunted in Ireland? So have a lot of very good horses.
He must have had a very good standard of education to do high level working hunter classes and qualify for RI.
I feel so sorry for this horse who has obviously known top class handling and treatment and is now down on his luck.

why do you think he is in such a state now then, ?

and what would you do to get him right?

 

[stormox]

why do you think he is in such a state now then, ?

and what would you do to get him right?

Why do I think he is in such a state? No idea, and 'why' wouldnt matter. His future is more important but I would probably try and find out as much as I could, from previous owners and records.
What would I do? Well it would depend a bit on his age, and condition. But I would take him off hard feed. Plenty of grass and good quality hay.
I would try and find out where he is sore when brushed (if he is).
I would lunge him for a few days and if OK I would ride him gently, hack out etc.
If he misbehaved I would try to see if there was any specific trigger and go from there. Vet, saddle, back person etc.
If he went OK ridden I would very gradually step up the workload and try to get him back to how he was.
I get great satisfaction in taking a sad sorry horse and getting him back on his feet.

 

[Orangehorse]

So weird for the horse to go well, be peaceful when you tried him, then get him home and he’s a spooky monster.

Either the hard feed/balancer youre giving are incompatible for whatever reason (alfalfa sets some horses off, my mare goes loopy on a handful of oats) so quit all feeds except hay/grass for a week as an experiment...?

Or he was drugged when you tried him....to hinder that hyper spookiness he’s got.

Os your dealer on the dodgy list?

Maybe thats why he bolted at the jump? - you jumped him when he was sedated - he was freaked out being sedated but couldnt do anything about it, due to sedation, and now a jump freaks him out...? Just ideas as to why jumps make him panic now despite having a jumping history.

you have my sympathy...what a nightmare, and as always a horse with issues no-one can figure out, is at the centre of the drama. The horse dealer world just riles me. QUOTE]


I had a horse that needed sedating after box rest, he was at a livery yard that did rehab. He was so bad she went to the vet and got bromide for him. It leaves the system within 24 hours, it doesn't make them sleepy, it just takes the edge off them, makes them quiet. Apparently used when breaking in TB colts, according to the vet.
I thought at the time that it was a substance that would be very open to abuse, as it wouldn't show up in a blood test.

There was a recent case in Horse and Hound of a show horse that had been given bromide.

I am not accusing the dealer - just telling what is possible.

 

[paddy555]

Why do I think he is in such a state? No idea, and 'why' wouldnt matter. His future is more important but I would probably try and find out as much as I could, from previous owners and records.
What would I do? Well it would depend a bit on his age, and condition. But I would take him off hard feed. Plenty of grass and good quality hay.
I would try and find out where he is sore when brushed (if he is).
I would lunge him for a few days and if OK I would ride him gently, hack out etc.
If he misbehaved I would try to see if there was any specific trigger and go from there. Vet, saddle, back person etc.
If he went OK ridden I would very gradually step up the workload and try to get him back to how he was.
I get great satisfaction in taking a sad sorry horse and getting him back on his feet.

this. I would love to get this horse back to where he should be. It would be so satisfying.
I would also research every inch of his history to find out where it went wrong. Anything could have happened, someone seriously ill or died and horse ended up with dealer. Dealer and lockdown which has affected businesses badly. This is a good horse down on his luck. Why? I would be talking to his show rider and finding out how he went. What went wrong.
Before getting the vet I would work out a comprehensive history of where the triggers were to his problems. I would get him out 24/7 on just grass and hay as he appeared to be rideable on that when he was tried. I would test his reaction to stabling, to supplements and feeds. I would ask him how he wanted to live and work around him.
He appears stressy in an arena so I would get him out of there and into the countryside and see if I could get him to enjoy hacking. I would do lots of long reining to try and stay safer.
Somewhere in all of that it may become more obvious which vet checks `I was going to need and we would go forward that way.

 

[criso]

The thing is you might be happy to do all that if you'd knowingly bought a project and it would be very satisfying. I tend to buy youngsters so I know it won't always be smooth.

However in this case the OP explicitly asked for something that was not stressy and spooky and not only has the horse turned out to be so in their current home; the previous owners who showed him and presumably were very competent described him as spooky and sensitive.

 

[Rowreach]

The thing is you might be happy to do all that if you'd knowingly bought a project and it would be very satisfying. I tend to buy youngsters so I know it won't always be smooth.

However in this case the OP explicitly asked for something that was not stressy and spooky and not only has the horse turned out to be so in their current home; the previous owners who showed him and presumably were very competent described him as spooky and sensitive.

Then they should have sent him back/notified the dealer much sooner.

 

[Rowreach]

Does that sound like a trustworthy person to do business with? I wouldn't expect to get my money in those circumstances, tbh. Which reputable dealer can you imagine refunding in installments. And what would the law say about getting all your money back if you have accepted an arrangement like that? I expect that if OP returned the horse she would want to look for another one as soon as possible.

Well I’ve no idea who the dealer is, but you can be a reputable dealer and not have thousands of pounds spare instantly to refund a buyer who has only just told you, four months after buying a horse, that they want to send it back.
Perhaps this person doesn’t sell many in a year and has been spending their savings on paying the bills and putting food on the table, much like I and many others have had to do, and paying by instalments is the best they can offer in this situation.

 

[Cowpony]

Or maybe the dealer is perfectly reputable but doesn't see why she should make things easy for somebody who has decided after 4 months that she doesn't want the horse after all. Or maybe it's a test to see whether the buyer is serious about returning or whether it's a bit of a try-on. I can imagine that dealers get cases like this all the time and might get a tad exasperated.....

 

[criso]

Then they should have sent him back/notified the dealer much sooner.

It sounds like they did contact the dealer sooner as they were apparently told to give the horse more time to settle. You wouldn't say that after 4 months. Reading their posts it also sounds like they thought they only had 30 days to return and have since found out that legally they have 6 months so this is an option.

If the horse has behavioural problems that can't be fixed then the dealer needs to be held to account; if it just needs someone more experienced, then it needs to be with that person, not with someone who doesn't have the experience to deal with it. They could get seriously injured.

 

[lannerch]

That would be lower value horses though, wouldn't it (not meant in a derogatory way, btw)? An earlier poster mentioned that a vetting was needed if you insure for north of £5k.

This horse is supposed to have been shown at county level, and was bought from a dealer at a time when horse prices are very inflated due to Covid. Unless the horse is ancient, I can't see anyone getting much change from £5k in such a purchase.

Exactly this . Something does not add up. The horse was far too cheap for the current market.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Well I’ve no idea who the dealer is, but you can be a reputable dealer and not have thousands of pounds spare instantly to refund a buyer who has only just told you, four months after buying a horse, that they want to send it back.
Perhaps this person doesn’t sell many in a year and has been spending their savings on paying the bills and putting food on the table, much like I and many others have had to do, and paying by instalments is the best they can offer in this situation.

Except that we don't know that the dealer didn't hear anything about the horse for 4 months. I certainly got the impression that OP had been having an ongoing conversation with the dealer, who kept repeating that the horse needed 'time to settle'. I would expect dealers who are selling horses currently to have sufficient money available to refund the price of one.

 

[Rowreach]

It sounds like they did contact the dealer sooner as they were apparently told to give the horse more time to settle. You wouldn't say that after 4 months. Reading their posts it also sounds like they thought they only had 30 days to return and have since found out that legally they have 6 months so this is an option.

If the horse has behavioural problems that can't be fixed then the dealer needs to be held to account; if it just needs someone more experienced, then it needs to be with that person, not with someone who doesn't have the experience to deal with it. They could get seriously injured.

I re-read the OP's comments yesterday as I was getting confused. They said they hadn't told the dealer anything till recently. The settling in comments were when they bought the horse.

As before, we don't have enough information but my heart goes out to the poor bloody horse.

 

[Rowreach]

Except that we don't know that the dealer didn't hear anything about the horse for 4 months. I certainly got the impression that OP had been having an ongoing conversation with the dealer, who kept repeating that the horse needed 'time to settle'. I would expect dealers who are selling horses currently to have sufficient money available to refund the price of one.

Not according to the OP's comments when they were asked to clarify.

 

[Lois Lame]

Sorry I should amend, he has had his back checked, teeth done, physio etc, I have been down all Avenues and until 2 weeks ago after he bolted was planning on exploring everything possible and have contacted a behaviourist to take him in June.

Well, this is confusing. Why a behaviourist booked for June when the dealer has offered to take him back in a month's time?
ETA: Sorry everyone if I'm not keeping up but things sound a little odd.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Things are very odd, LL. This is the first thread that the OP posted about the horse. There is a second, more recent one now running.