Stuck, mis sold horse

[Stingbably]

I feel like I am stuck in a nightmare. I bought a horse end of December. I have been saving for this horse for 4 years after losing my horse of a lifetime after 19 years.
I enquired about a horse and stated I want an easy horse that’s not stressy ,or spooky out hacking, can jump me around at riding club level. I want something good to catch and shoe. I don’t want anything that bolts, naps rears or is very hard to stop. I would like to take him out and about so he needs to be good to load. I can put up with him moving off when he’s mounted as long as he’s not cold backed.The dealer stated that he ticked all boxes (I have WhatsApp messages)
She kept saying to me he will need time to settle, fair enough I am experience horse owner and would give him time to settle. Mount turned out to be a lot worse than was stated, I got a horse whisper in... and have really tried to be patient, had to get on with someone stood in front and slowly i would walk around him from the other side trying to desensitise him then slowly creep up, at first he would panic and shoot off, if I even could get him next to the block. This is improve over time. He was stabled at night at our livery yard and became increasingly bad to catch, had to keep a head collar on... he was extremely sensitive and stressy, I had lessons every week and just had to work on keeping him calm. Had him shod he was very stressy and next few time blacksmith had to take him in the stable. He’s head shy and sensitive to brush, shoots to the back of the stable when you enter, tried to kick me when I tried to brush his more sensitive side. Can’t hack him alone, he isn’t bad out hacking but takes a lot from the horses he is with. Then on lesson he was very very stressy and bolted. Full gallop around the arena 6 laps I tried to stop him or head him up a hedge didn’t work and no choice but to bail and he flung me into the hedge. So I contacted a professional to take him. He was there 2 days and did the same thing to her, she sent him back...
So I have contact the dealer, was good at first call, apologies it happened asked to take time to mull it over. I called her after the weekend and she said that isn’t the horse she sold, he was a gem...
he hasn’t been since I got him but I was trying my best, but bolting is not something I am prepared to work on, he is a dangerous horse.
She is trying to say she can take him back to sell him on my behalf, I refused this. Now she says she doesn’t have the money and can pay in dribs abs drabs when she sell a horse in her yard.
what do I do? Or has anyone been in this situation, I am having to pay livery for a horse I feel was missold. The dealer isn’t close either and travel cost would be £300, who should pay this? I have spent a lot of money on him so far anyway...
I am heartbroken, I worked so hard to save for a horse and now I have a horse I can’t ride and money leaking out of my pockets

 

[Goldenstar]

I would get some legal advice but my unlegal is advice send him back and and take dealer to the small claims court .

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Are you a BHS member? If so, call their legal advice line.

Did you have him vetted (with bloods) and is the yard he's on now very different to how he was kept before? You don't say you tried him before you bought...not that any of this should matter so don't feel the need to answer, I'm just being nosey.

 

[FlyingCircus]

How long have you had him?
When did you raise the issues with dealer?

Sounds like he is either in pain or massively misunderstood.

 

[chaps89]

Unfortunately you're almost 5 months on from buying him. Horses can change alot (for better or worse) in less time than that.
Fair play to you for trying all the obvious, sensible routes first though.
Did you flag any of the issues with the dealer sooner or have any dialogue with them before asking them to take the horse back recently?
Was the horse tried and vetted- can you run bloods from the vetting at all? (I'm pretty sure bloods are only kept for a short period of time so you might need to get a wiggle on with this)
Ultimately I think if this is the first the dealer is aware of an issue 5 months down the line from sale, you might struggle to get them to agree horse was mis-sold and take it back/refund you.
I'd be seeking specialist equine legal advice tbh.

 

[Stingbably]

Are you a BHS member? If so, call their legal advice line.

Did you have him vetted (with bloods) and is the yard he's on now very different to how he was kept before? You don't say you tried him before you bought...not that any of this should matter so don't feel the need to answer, I'm just being nosey.

no I didn’t have him vetted, I did try him and he was no problem at all, I made sure I could do his girth up, handled him in the stable, got on in a open field, jumped him cross country in their field and no problems, he also loaded fine that time. He is a beautiful horse who has done high level showing in the past, but at the dealer he was very poor, they didn’t give him hard feed and he was turned out, he had rain scolds. I have fed him balancer and he is in at night. But I try and keep him out as long as possible and don’t use the livery yard turn out now to try and keep him out longer, I go up to bring him in about 7:30-8pm

 

[Stingbably]

Unfortunately you're almost 5 months on from buying him. Horses can change alot (for better or worse) in less time than that.
Fair play to you for trying all the obvious, sensible routes first though.
Did you flag any of the issues with the dealer sooner or have any dialogue with them before asking them to take the horse back recently?
Was the horse tried and vetted- can you run bloods from the vetting at all? (I'm pretty sure bloods are only kept for a short period of time so you might need to get a wiggle on with this)
Ultimately I think if this is the first the dealer is aware of an issue 5 months down the line from sale, you might struggle to get them to agree horse was mis-sold and take it back/refund you.
I'd be seeking specialist equine legal advice tbh.

Thank you, I haven’t raised anything with the dealer as I was trying to just knuckle down and get on with it, as I only thought I had 30 days, I have spoken to a solicitor and you have 6 months after a sale. And any behaviour in this time is treated by law like it was behaving like that the day you bought it. But I just worry I won’t get any money back

 

[chaps89]

I see.
I think I'd be inclined to take it to small claims court then (I believe you can do it yourself for not very much £) and also claim costs of keep and transport in with that. I believe if it's ruled in your favour, bailiffs can be instructed in due course if pay out isn't received.
I certainly wouldn't hand the horse back until I'd got payment in full, and to cut ongoing costs I'd turn away out at grass and do the bare minimum with him.
However I'm not in any way a legal bod and I'd check this with the solicitor you've already sought advice from

 

[Bellaboo18]

Thank you, I haven’t raised anything with the dealer as I was trying to just knuckle down and get on with it, as I only thought I had 30 days, I have spoken to a solicitor and you have 6 months after a sale. And any behaviour in this time is treated by law like it was behaving like that the day you bought it. But I just worry I won’t get any money back

I'm really not convinced this is right, 6 months??!! You can do a lot of damage to a horse in that time...
Sorry you find yourself in this situation but I think you'll be very lucky to get the dealer to give a refund.
He wasn't vetted.
He was poor and isn't now so naturally has more energy.
The behaviour sounds pain related.

 

[stormox]

Have you been able to contact the people who had him before the dealer? They might be able to help you understand his issues or give you further information on him.
If the dealer wont give you their name try googling the horses passport name, or his sire and dam.
Or go right back to the breeder if you know who they are from passport.
I think horses do need time to settle, take my own mare for example. I have owned her 5 years since she was 3 and done everything with her - only a couple of other people have ever ridden her.
She behaves perfectly with me, and has lived in the same home all her ridden life. I really have no idea how she would behave if she went to another home but I think she would be extremely unsettled at first.

 

[Stingbably]

Have you been able to contact the people who had him before the dealer? They might be able to help you understand his issues or give you further information on him.
If the dealer wont give you their name try googling the horses passport name, or his sire and dam.
Or go right back to the breeder if you know who they are from passport.
I think horses do need time to settle, take my own mare for example. I have owned her 5 years since she was 3 and done everything with her - only a couple of other people have ever ridden her.
She behaves perfectly with me, and has lived in the same home all her ridden life. I really have no idea how she would behave if she went to another home but I think she would be extremely unsettled at first.

I have, they have said he was a sensitive horse, and could be spooky. Give me a lot of his history and was handed back to the breeder because of a height dispute, but stating to think there was more to that story. The breeder was in Ireland and he was hunted for a season, I cannot imagine how he would have coped with this, perhaps this created some of his behaviour now or exasperated it.
I think he is a 1 person horse which is why I was tying to deal with him but I cannot put myself in danger and not prepared to ride him now.

 

[tallyho!]

Firstly, big hugs I can imagine how stressful this is.

Secondly, lets just take a quick look from his perspective... what is his background? Where did he come from and what did he do before? The dealer says he was fine, so what was he eating before? Has that changed? IS something upsetting him at the new place? Is he just finding everything a bit much? Was there an injury?

If he is a 1 person horse, has anyone spent any time just getting to know him... being with him and listening? You get sensitive souls and sometimes you get souls that just plough on until the amount of change is just unbearable... losing friends, missing homes, and things just not being "how it was"... could you provide some comfort?

 

[stormox]

If he has done high level showing he must have been well behaved then. A lot of showing is judged on manners, and judges have to mount and dismount.
How old is he? How long has he been over from Ireland? Maybe he hadnt been ridden for a while with all the covid restrictions.
Could you try another yard? Maybe he would be better in a quieter place? Or a busier one?
Try and be very consistant in your behaviour with him, establish a routine. Do plenty of groundwork. It might be worth it in the end.

 

[Stingbably]

Firstly, big hugs I can imagine how stressful this is.

Secondly, lets just take a quick look from his perspective... what is his background? Where did he come from and what did he do before? The dealer says he was fine, so what was he eating before? Has that changed? IS something upsetting him at the new place? Is he just finding everything a bit much? Was there an injury?

If he is a 1 person horse, has anyone spent any time just getting to know him... being with him and listening? You get sensitive souls and sometimes you get souls that just plough on until the amount of change is just unbearable... losing friends, missing homes, and things just not being "how it was"... could you provide some comfort?

Thank you. He is a sensitive sole, and yes I have, I do had done groundwork in the school every week following the TRT method and I have had parelli lessons in the past. I have spent a lot of time trying to understand him, he is on top spec balancer, where I do not believe he was fed at all at the dealers. I can honestly say I have put my all in to trying with him, right up until my bad fall. I have put him on a calmer a few weeks after he arrived to take the edge off his behaviour. Sadly i know that I could spend a lot of money and not get anywhere, and looking back on my communication with the dealer even before he bolted sadly he was not the horse I was advised he was. I do not buy and sell horse and it is awful and heartbreaking, which is why I really have tried

 

[shortstuff99]

How long ago did the bad behaviour start? What balancer do you give him and when did you start that?

Balancers send one of my horses absolutely off her head.

 

[stormox]

Maybe you should take him off all hard feed? Not all horses need it.
Or if you really feel he isnt the horse for you he may be the horse for someone else. Can you advertise him honestly and sell him?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The Sale of Goods Act does give you 6 months to return goods which are not 'fit for purpose' and horses are considered to be goods in this context.

However, I would take him off the TopSpec balancer - it is known to send some horses loopy, if you search on here you will find several posts about it.
I would also stop the calmer as they can have the opposite effect in some horses.

 

[Trouper]

You don't say whether or not you have had the vet out to check for pain related issues. Whoever else you have had to help you, if he is in pain somewhere, then they will get the same reaction. It sounds like the poor lad has had a rather chequered career so he could be carrying some issues but you need veterinary help to identify these.

 

[FireCracker238]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've read you've had the horse seen by a horse whisperer but I don't think I've read if he's had anyone else see him, vet, physio/chiro, saddle fitter etc. as some of the other posters have said it sounds like pain related behaviour. I understand that you don't want to throw good money after bad but it may be worth ruling out pain issues first.

I'm sorry you're having to go through all this and I hope you can find a way of becoming his person. Good Luck ?

 

[FireCracker238]

Sorry, cross posted with Trouper

 

[Bellaboo18]

I understand the stress and disappointment in these situations but I always feel for the poor horse.
Let's be honest if he goes back to the dealer hes going to get passed on again. When is someone going to step up and find where he hurts. Surely after this amount of time it's worth a vet visit?

 

[Melody Grey]

Lots of good advice and observation here- I’m inclined to agree that there is a pain issue.
When did the issues become apparent? I think you’d have known before now if there was foul play and he’d been medicated in some way or some other grounds for return?

 

[meleeka]

Im not sure you’d have a case after 6 months. I think the dealers offer of selling him for you is a fair one. To be honest, I don’t think that’s the right thing to do morally. It sounds as if the horse is in pain but you don’t say if you’ve had him examined fully by a vet? If not then do so. If you can get him out of pain, he has a better chance of getting a good home. It’s clear he’s not right for you, but you really should have requested a refund months ago (and had him vetted in the first place obviously).

 

[fredflop]

Personally I’d suggest posting on the dodgy dealers Facebook page to see what the advice is in there.

in the meantime can you get a physio/chiro out for a once over? Might just help make him a bit more comfy without spending a fortune

 

[Stingbably]

I feel like I am stuck in a nightmare. I bought a horse end of December. I have been saving for this horse for 4 years after losing my horse of a lifetime after 19 years.
I enquired about a horse and stated I want an easy horse that’s not stressy ,or spooky out hacking, can jump me around at riding club level. I want something good to catch and shoe. I don’t want anything that bolts, naps rears or is very hard to stop. I would like to take him out and about so he needs to be good to load. I can put up with him moving off when he’s mounted as long as he’s not cold backed.The dealer stated that he ticked all boxes (I have WhatsApp messages)
She kept saying to me he will need time to settle, fair enough I am experience horse owner and would give him time to settle. Mount turned out to be a lot worse than was stated, I got a horse whisper in... and have really tried to be patient, had to get on with someone stood in front and slowly i would walk around him from the other side trying to desensitise him then slowly creep up, at first he would panic and shoot off, if I even could get him next to the block. This is improve over time. He was stabled at night at our livery yard and became increasingly bad to catch, had to keep a head collar on... he was extremely sensitive and stressy, I had lessons every week and just had to work on keeping him calm. Had him shod he was very stressy and next few time blacksmith had to take him in the stable. He’s head shy and sensitive to brush, shoots to the back of the stable when you enter, tried to kick me when I tried to brush his more sensitive side. Can’t hack him alone, he isn’t bad out hacking but takes a lot from the horses he is with. Then on lesson he was very very stressy and bolted. Full gallop around the arena 6 laps I tried to stop him or head him up a hedge didn’t work and no choice but to bail and he flung me into the hedge. So I contacted a professional to take him. He was there 2 days and did the same thing to her, she sent him back...
So I have contact the dealer, was good at first call, apologies it happened asked to take time to mull it over. I called her after the weekend and she said that isn’t the horse she sold, he was a gem...
he hasn’t been since I got him but I was trying my best, but bolting is not something I am prepared to work on, he is a dangerous horse.
She is trying to say she can take him back to sell him on my behalf, I refused this. Now she says she doesn’t have the money and can pay in dribs abs drabs when she sell a horse in her yard.
what do I do? Or has anyone been in this situation, I am having to pay livery for a horse I feel was missold. The dealer isn’t close either and travel cost would be £300, who should pay this? I have spent a lot of money on him so far anyway...
I am heartbroken, I worked so hard to save for a horse and now I have a horse I can’t ride and money leaking out of my pockets

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've read you've had the horse seen by a horse whisperer but I don't think I've read if he's had anyone else see him, vet, physio/chiro, saddle fitter etc. as some of the other posters have said it sounds like pain related behaviour. I understand that you don't want to throw good money after bad but it may be worth ruling out pain issues first.

I'm sorry you're having to go through all this and I hope you can find a way of becoming his person. Good Luck ?

Sorry I should amend, he has had his back checked, teeth done, physio etc, I have been down all Avenues and until 2 weeks ago after he bolted was planning on exploring everything possible and have contacted a behaviourist to take him in June.

 

[stormox]

When he bolted, did something happen to scare him ie. was it a spook and run off and the rider inadvertently clung on with their calves making him go faster? (Not a criticism, just that Ive seen it happen).
Or was it something else? You say he was 'stressy' what actually was he doing? It may just be he is just a very sensitive horse - does he have a lot of blood?

 

[Upthecreek]

The horse needs a full work up from a vet not a behaviourist. Is he insured?

 

[Stingbably]

I feel like I am stuck in a nightmare. I bought a horse end of December. I have been saving for this horse for 4 years after losing my horse of a lifetime after 19 years.
I enquired about a horse and stated I want an easy horse that’s not stressy ,or spooky out hacking, can jump me around at riding club level. I want something good to catch and shoe. I don’t want anything that bolts, naps rears or is very hard to stop. I would like to take him out and about so he needs to be good to load. I can put up with him moving off when he’s mounted as long as he’s not cold backed.The dealer stated that he ticked all boxes (I have WhatsApp messages)
She kept saying to me he will need time to settle, fair enough I am experience horse owner and would give him time to settle. Mount turned out to be a lot worse than was stated, I got a horse whisper in... and have really tried to be patient, had to get on with someone stood in front and slowly i would walk around him from the other side trying to desensitise him then slowly creep up, at first he would panic and shoot off, if I even could get him next to the block. This is improve over time. He was stabled at night at our livery yard and became increasingly bad to catch, had to keep a head collar on... he was extremely sensitive and stressy, I had lessons every week and just had to work on keeping him calm. Had him shod he was very stressy and next few time blacksmith had to take him in the stable. He’s head shy and sensitive to brush, shoots to the back of the stable when you enter, tried to kick me when I tried to brush his more sensitive side. Can’t hack him alone, he isn’t bad out hacking but takes a lot from the horses he is with. Then on lesson he was very very stressy and bolted. Full gallop around the arena 6 laps I tried to stop him or head him up a hedge didn’t work and no choice but to bail and he flung me into the hedge. So I contacted a professional to take him. He was there 2 days and did the same thing to her, she sent him back...
So I have contact the dealer, was good at first call, apologies it happened asked to take time to mull it over. I called her after the weekend and she said that isn’t the horse she sold, he was a gem...
he hasn’t been since I got him but I was trying my best, but bolting is not something I am prepared to work on, he is a dangerous horse.
She is trying to say she can take him back to sell him on my behalf, I refused this. Now she says she doesn’t have the money and can pay in dribs abs drabs when she sell a horse in her yard.
what do I do? Or has anyone been in this situation, I am having to pay livery for a horse I feel was missold. The dealer isn’t close either and travel cost would be £300, who should pay this? I have spent a lot of money on him so far anyway...
I am heartbroken, I worked so hard to save for a horse and now I have a horse I can’t ride and money leaking out of my pockets

Just to amend as it not easy to write every single thing down in a post. He has had back checked, physio, teeth etc. I wanted to see if anyone else has had dealing with missold horses and what their experience was getting money back etc
When I bought him from the dealer in retrospect he was probably worked before as with lots of work he is not quite so reactive the reason I sent him away for schooling was to see if he was better in harder work, I was giving him 2 weeks schooling until I made a decision to sell him or keep, if he was better In hard work I was going to sell him as I can’t ride every day and in that case we wouldn’t be suited to each other. But as he did the same bolt when he was away on the 2nd day the first time she sat on him, I have had to go back to the dealer. I have spoken to a solicitor and taken their advice, and you have 6 months after sales to use the consumer rights act 2005. Any behaviour within this time is treated as if it was there on the day of sale.

 

[Stingbably]

The horse needs a full work up from a vet not a behaviourist. Is he insured?

He has had that. I was sending him to Sophie Seymour who is a very competent person who deals with problem horses

 

[Stingbably]

When he bolted, did something happen to scare him ie. was it a spook and run off and the rider inadvertently clung on with their calves making him go faster? (Not a criticism, just that Ive seen it happen).
Or was it something else? You say he was 'stressy' what actually was he doing? It may just be he is just a very sensitive horse - does he have a lot of blood?

I was circling him on front of a jump, he thought we were jumping it, I was trying to settle him to have a better approach. And he went, it was like a blind panic