Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National

I must say I havn't read all of the posts but I don't like the Grand National, it makes me cry because I am a soppy bint and I get really upset . What do I do about it? I don't watch it, don't bet on it and thats it!!

When we go to Newmarket Nights I get myself all upset over the horse racing BUT I have to say that the horses really do seem to enjoy it, its just me that gets silly over it. I've been a couple of times racing (not Newmarket nights) and both times horses have died so I now don't go and don't watch it either.

Each to their own, strangely enough I love going to Burghley and Badminton!
 
Caledonia said:
Why? Who?
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If you had a horse that had suffered a severe in injury in 2008 and had run only twice since in hunter chases would you seriously enter him into the world's toughest steeplechase? Read the form on Ornais.
I don't doubt that the people involved have what they think are great "outside chances" precisely because the race outcome isn't easily predictable and because of rare "fairytail" stories. And I am certain that the very same people are terribly upset about the loss today of these fine creatures. But if there was a qualification criteria and perhaps a smaller number of runners the race would still be a spectacle but also safer for all those (jockeys included) involved. x
 
jenbleep said:
Yes it is sad, but come on...I thought 2 out of 40 wasn't bad for such a large race, plus any horses that are in trouble are in the best hands.

Horses die out hacking, it's unfortunate but true! Plus with all the adrenaline I doubt they would have felt it
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You are joking? A 5% mortality rate is OK? So if 5% of horses died at every XC event that would be OK?

Yes horses die doing other things - of course they do they've got to die somewhere but with it's high mortality rate and the potential for serious injury this race is beyond ever being enjoyable to watch for me.
 
applecart14 said:
My fault too I guess. And I am a she not a he. :eek: Its my Dad in the photo holding the horse and my O/H and our beagle bitch Candy!! Someone else referred to me as a he the other day, I think I'm going to get my siggy changed! he, he. :) Its me jumping in the middle photo.
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Hehe, that's a classic. Sorry!!!
 
I hope he pulls through. That is horrible.
I had 5 friends riding in today's race 2 of whom hit the deck. One is quite battered and bruised but all will of those be back on track in a few days. Quite a relief.
As regards preparation, Majestic Concorde was one who had mostly just jumped hurdles I believe as did the winner in his preparation for today. He only jumped a chase once the handicaps came out. Majestic Concorde unseated when the saddle slipped. And Stae of Play was the one who hadnt run since he was 3rd in last years race - this prep was not to his detriment now was it?

I agree that decreasing to 30 horses would not be to the detriment of the atmosphere and occasion but would make it a bit safer.
Paddi- what you are saying is right in one sense, the increased danger of racing (and GN in particular) is the fact that the jockey has no control over what happens around him - horses falling, riders cutting others up and loose horses. If you think about it, it is mostly poor riding ability, poor control or poor judgement that lead to fatal falls in eventing. That element appears to be less in racing and outside elements play an important role too. (Controversial Im sure)
Comments on the RP website suggest that the reason for the increase in fatalities at the GN in recent years is the lowered fences allowing jockeys to take on the course at greater speeds. I do think this may be a factor.
 
I really do hope that some of you grow up, death is an everyday thing whether human, horse, cattle,sheep pigs etc. the 2 horses wouldn't have felt a thing and again only one of you have mentioned the young jockey that was injured, says alot about some of you.:o:o:o
 
Nickles1973 said:
If you had a horse that had suffered a severe in injury in 2008 and had run only twice since in hunter chases would you seriously enter him into the world's toughest steeplechase? Read the form on Ornais.
I don't doubt that the people involved have what they think are great "outside chances" precisely because the race outcome isn't easily predictable and because of rare "fairytail" stories. And I am certain that the very same people are terribly upset about the loss today of these fine creatures. But if there was a qualification criteria and perhaps a smaller number of runners the race would still be a spectacle but also safer for all those (jockeys included) involved. x
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Why would that make him any different from Aldaniti? And are you seriously suggesting that PN is incapable of getting a horse fit or sound enough to run?
The horse carried 10-4. He's won some nice races, was lightly raced, and easily had the class for the race. Presumably he was brought back in Hunter Chases to give him a reintroduction to fences to see how he was.

I remember him, I've backed him in the past, he was a class act, and running him in HCs is not so very different to running Aintree bound horses over hurdles.

If you perhaps read the form properly, he's had a gentle introduction back to racing. That's some leap of faith to indicate that was the reason for the fall.
 
Nickles1973 said:
If you had a horse that had suffered a severe in injury in 2008 and had run only twice since in hunter chases would you seriously enter him into the world's toughest steeplechase? Read the form on Ornais.
I don't doubt that the people involved have what they think are great "outside chances" precisely because the race outcome isn't easily predictable and because of rare "fairytail" stories. And I am certain that the very same people are terribly upset about the loss today of these fine creatures. But if there was a qualification criteria and perhaps a smaller number of runners the race would still be a spectacle but also safer for all those (jockeys included) involved. x
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there is a criteria it's a handicap mark, for example the horse that won the Topham Chase(same course but half the distance) yesterday (Always Waining) for the second year running didn't qualify to run in the GN as not rated high enough.
 
glenruby said:
If you think about it, it is mostly poor riding ability, poor control or poor judgement that lead to fatal falls in eventing. That element appears to be less in racing and outside elements play an important role too. (Controversial Im sure)
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Plenty of great, well prepared riders killed and seriously injured eventing too, when there is no error made. All these jumping big fixed fences sports are very risky to horses and riders, even with all the talent, preparation and safety equipment in the world.

Plus like you say, make things safer one way, like lowing the jumps, and what happens? They ride faster. It is dangerous no matter what, and I expect there will come a day (sadly?) when the level of risk is the end of these sports.
 
glenruby said:
Comments on the RP website suggest that the reason for the increase in fatalities at the GN in recent years is the lowered fences allowing jockeys to take on the course at greater speeds. I do think this may be a factor.
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Me too. Although I think the numbers could be addressed, I'm not sure how much would change as the jocks will still vy for position.

Neither of today's fatalities was linked to too many runners. Ornais was clear, just too quick, and Dooney's Gate was in front and brought down West End and poss the Pipe horse too......
 
Personally I hate the GN. Too many riders over a course which is too long and too strenuous - I's either shorten the course or reduce the number of fences and definitely reduce the number of horses. So many falls are caused by horses being 'caught up' with those fallen ahead of them.

I used to ride work for a national hunt trainer and decided i didn't like what i used to see (not by my own trainer i hasten to add - he's a good guy).

But each to their own as well so if people want to watch then that's up to them for sure.

However hasn't the jockey just received a suspension for over use of the whip. He must have known how much his horse was struggling so I certainly don't commend him for the win. I didn't watch but have read the news stories of how the winner needed immediate attention and wasn't lead into the winners enclosure (apologies if that's a load of pants just stated in a news item). The jockey must have realised he was pushing the horse beyond its limits.

Personally a race - no matter how valuable - is not worth that. Yes ever horse runs the risk of a hideous fall and fatality. But to foceably push an animal which has clearly given its all is hardly noble - or a fair test of the horses ability. Its just pathetically commercial.

I am so sorry to read there is an injured jockey and i hope he makes a speedy recovery. My thoughts definitely with him and his family.
 
glenruby said:
I hope he pulls through. That is horrible.
I had 5 friends riding in today's race 2 of whom hit the deck. One is quite battered and bruised but all will of those be back on track in a few days. Quite a relief.
As regards preparation, Majestic Concorde was one who had mostly just jumped hurdles I believe as did the winner in his preparation for today. He only jumped a chase once the handicaps came out. Majestic Concorde unseated when the saddle slipped. And Stae of Play was the one who hadnt run since he was 3rd in last years race - this prep was not to his detriment now was it?
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That was what I was meaning - State of Play has evidently only been training the last year in preparation for the GN, he was not put in any races since last years GN. He certainly did superbly. That's what i was effectively saying and was contradicting my comment on the same post where I thought horse should have to qualify in some way to be able to race in the GN, they should be able to show they are capable. But State of Play didn't do anything it was obviously just good training and preparation in the year between his last effort.

Essentially, I am saying it is hard to say how to improve the safety of the race as accidents and injuries can happen to the best horses even in a smaller race.

As for who posted saying people haven't mentioned the jockey, I think that's a little unfair. The injured jockey was not in the National, he was injured in an earlier race so many people would not have known that a jockey was injured. I am sure everyone feels for him and his family but he does choose to compete in a very dangerous sport. It is a risk you take. I do hope he pulls through, we all do I am sure.
 
My only reaction to today's race was to question why the horses were still on the course and why one of them was just covered leaving it painfully obvious what had happened. Why the horse was not removed off the course I do not know, but I do feel they could have left the screens up. In fifty years of watching the National I can not remember fences having to be bypassed before. They were maybe still dealing with the horse at Bechers so therefore totally understandable. I thought Clare Balding and Richard Dunwoody dealt with it extremely well and with the sympathy that one would expect, particularly for the stable staff involved. I was more concerned for the horses that did finish and I hope they are all OK.
 
Echo Bravo said:
I really do hope that some of you grow up, death is an everyday thing whether human, horse, cattle,sheep pigs etc. the 2 horses wouldn't have felt a thing and again only one of you have mentioned the young jockey that was injured, says alot about some of you.:o:o:o
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Two horses die in front of the nation on TV, it was shocking to see, with the bodies lay covered while the race continues was a very sad sight. Watching animals die in the name of sport, is bull fighting or dog fighting ok? where do YOU draw the line?

The young jockey choose to be there, he made a conscious decision to participate in the earlyier race & as he was not in the GN I dont see why his fall is relivant to a discussion about the GN
 
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Caledonia said:
Why would that make him any different from Aldaniti? And are you seriously suggesting that PN is incapable of getting a horse fit or sound enough to run?
The horse carried 10-4. He's won some nice races, was lightly raced, and easily had the class for the race. Presumably he was brought back in Hunter Chases to give him a reintroduction to fences to see how he was.

I remember him, I've backed him in the past, he was a class act, and running him in HCs is not so very different to running Aintree bound horses over hurdles.

If you perhaps read the form properly, he's had a gentle introduction back to racing. That's some leap of faith to indicate that was the reason for the fall.
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I feel that my point over qualification still stands, he may well have had a great chance before his injury in 2008 and a gentle introduction back to racing it may have been, but 2 starts and then the "National"? Would you imagine having an event horse injured a couple of years ago bringing it back to fitness and then taking it out to a couple of gentle events before taking it to Badminton?
I don't pretend to know everything about horse racing or any horse sport for that matter, and I am as always still enthralled by the spectacle and bravery of all those involved, but I do feel that there are ways that this race could be made safer for both horses and jockeys.
 
Sun said:
The young jockey choose to be there, he made a conscious decision participate in the race.
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Say someone you know gets in a car tomorrow and has a car crash. Are you saying you wouldn't feel sorry for them because they chose to be in the car?

Can't believe people aren't showing more respect. I'm sure that if I'd written that he'd passed away, people would still be saying 'He chose to do it' - how insensitive can you get. The horses don't matter in comparison to a situation like this. Sad that they died, but so did thousands last year and they were replaced and everyone moved on. This young guy can't be replaced.
 
Bull fighting and dog fighting are two completely different entities and to even compare them to racing is really showing your ignorance.
 
Sun said:
Two horses die in front of the nation on TV, it was shocking to see, with the bodies lay covered while the race continues was a very sad sight. Watching animals die in the name of sport, is bull fighting or dog fighting ok? where do YOU draw the line?

The young jockey choose to be there, he made a conscious decision to participate in the earlyier race & as he was not in the GN I dont see why his fall is relivant to a discussion about the GN
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I have pressed the button on your post, prior to it being edited. I think it is highly disrespectful at this time.
 
Nickles1973 said:
I feel that my point over qualification still stands, he may well have had a great chance before his injury in 2008 and a gentle introduction back to racing it may have been, but 2 starts and then the "National"? Would you imagine having an event horse injured a couple of years ago bringing it back to fitness and then taking it out to a couple of gentle events before taking it to Badminton?
I don't pretend to know everything about horse racing or any horse sport for that matter, and I am as always still enthralled by the spectacle and bravery of all those involved, but I do feel that there are ways that this race could be made safer for both horses and jockeys.
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But ........ his fitness had SFA to do with the fall - he missed and went skywards, bless him. Nothing to do with his lack of prep. They'd only gone less than a mile.
He was, also, a sound jumper if my memory serves me - he looked so like on of my own horses I always followed him. Sorry, but you accusation is well shaky, and seriously insulting to the team at Ditcheat.
 
lhotse said:
Bull fighting and dog fighting are two completely different entities and to even compare them to racing is really showing your ignorance.
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no, you are twisting what I said.

I said, watching horses die on tv, bullfighting or dog fighting, where do you draw the line?? I consider bull fighting considerable worst than what happened today, however if it is okay to enjoy a race while you know the risks are very high of equine fatality then why are other sports that also result in the death of animals not ok??
 
Sun said:
Two horses die in front of the nation on TV, it was shocking to see, with the bodies lay covered while the race continues was a very sad sight. Watching animals die in the name of sport, is bull fighting or dog fighting ok? where do YOU draw the line?

The young jockey choose to be there, he made a conscious decision to participate in the earlyier race & as he was not in the GN I dont see why his fall is relivant to a discussion about the GN
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You're mad. Clearly.
 
huntley said:
My only reaction to today's race was to question why the horses were still on the course and why one of them was just covered leaving it painfully obvious what had happened. Why the horse was not removed off the course I do not know, but I do feel they could have left the screens up. In fifty years of watching the National I can not remember fences having to be bypassed before. They were maybe still dealing with the horse at Bechers so therefore totally understandable. I thought Clare Balding and Richard Dunwoody dealt with it extremely well and with the sympathy that one would expect, particularly for the stable staff involved. I was more concerned for the horses that did finish and I hope they are all OK.
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they can't really remove a horse on the track as they need certain equipment that would be more of a hazard.

I think bypassing the fences is progress it used to just be a marker that the jockeys had to keep to one side of thus squeezng them into the fence in a smaller space, but last year was the first year that every fence could be bypassed if needed. This has obvously drawn attention to accidents but has enabled emergency staff a chance to asses and treat on the field.Jockey Peter Toole's fall in the Maghill novice is a good example.
 
Caledonia - I still think Ornais may have been injured prior to jumping that fence - he lost his action on the approach. Guess it doesnt change things anyway though but perhaps a heart attack or similar is why he appeared to be lifeless on landing.
 
lhotse said:
I have pressed the button on your post, prior to it being edited. I think it is highly disrespectful at this time.
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if you wish, go ahead and push the button.

This post is titled "Re: Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National" you are the one going off post.
 
Not twisting anything, you brought dog fighting and bullfighting into the equation and used them as a parallel. They are not remotely similar, dog fighting is illegal for starters!!!!
 
Echo Bravo said:
I really do hope that some of you grow up, death is an everyday thing whether human, horse, cattle,sheep pigs etc. the 2 horses wouldn't have felt a thing and again only one of you have mentioned the young jockey that was injured, says alot about some of you.:o:o:o
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These threads are about the Grand National. Maybe a lot of posters only watched the one race and were unaware of the young jockey that was injured.
 
Sun said:
if you wish, go ahead and push the button.

This post is titled "Re: Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National" you are the one going off post.
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So because it didn't happen in the race in the title of this post, it doesn't matter?!

It puts perspective on this post. It is sad that 2 horses died in the national, but we should be thinking about this young guy tonight. Totally overrides the National.
 
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