Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National

teagreen said:
Say someone you know gets in a car tomorrow and has a car crash. Are you saying you wouldn't feel sorry for them because they chose to be in the car?

Can't believe people aren't showing more respect. I'm sure that if I'd written that he'd passed away, people would still be saying 'He chose to do it' - how insensitive can you get. The horses don't matter in comparison to a situation like this. Sad that they died, but so did thousands last year and they were replaced and everyone moved on. This young guy can't be replaced.
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???

again, I came onto the post to discuss my feelings regarding the horse deaths. If you wish we can start a new post to discuss the jockeys? theough I may not however have much of an opinion, because accidents do happen when riding, and though I wish him a speedy recovery I am sure there is no real debate needed on his behalf??
 
glenruby said:
Caledonia - I still think Ornais may have been injured prior to jumping that fence - he lost his action on the approach. Guess it doesnt change things anyway though but perhaps a heart attack or similar is why he appeared to be lifeless on landing.
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You could well be right - I think that's more common than reported. (One Man, Detroit City, etc) I didn't see it clearly enough, but I do also think he was dead on landing, or as soon as he broke his neck.

Either way, it's tragic. Both horses had falls similar to the one that has hurt Peter Toole. Brave men and horses.
 
Well after the other thread on racehorses being sent to slaughter , i guess i think at least they died quickly and doing something for which they were bred for. Not nice but some have worse fates !!
 
My post is not related to any other reply or person. Hopefully the link will work. Made me think because those beautiful creatures, have no idea of whats expected of them. I am glad that the jockey of the surviving TB has been reprimanded. Think he got a wee bit carried away... with his whip which was quite obvious as the TV depicted.

http://newsthump.com/2011/04/08/gra...end-cruelty-by-destroying-horses-before-race/

I think the above is abit exteme but makes a point...

Sorry if the link does not work... Must try harder eh? lol

x
 
Flame_ said:
Plenty of great, well prepared riders killed and seriously injured eventing too, when there is no error made. All these jumping big fixed fences sports are very risky to horses and riders, even with all the talent, preparation and safety equipment in the world.

Plus like you say, make things safer one way, like lowing the jumps, and what happens? They ride faster. It is dangerous no matter what, and I expect there will come a day (sadly?) when the level of risk is the end of these sports.
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but don't you think if two eventing horses died on the same course and a jockey is in critical condition that some adjustments would be made to how that event was run in future?

you talk about lowering the jumps, but not about reducing the running field. the amount of horses running is lethal, as the other poster said, the race would be the same even with ten less horses, but be immesurably safer
 
teagreen said:
So because it didn't happen in the race in the title of this post, it doesn't matter?!

It puts perspective on this post. It is sad that 2 horses died in the national, but we should be thinking about this young guy tonight. Totally overrides the National.
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No, I never said it didnt matter it was just not relevant to the conversation regarding the horses being killed, which was something I did have an opinion on. Of course I wish him well, and pray for his speedy recovery but it wasnt something I felt needed debating on a forum.
 
jockmaster said:
I would also like to say that the winning horse was extremely lucky not to have collapsed and died after the race. When you saw it walking whilst being led, it looked like it was about to go down at one point. Disgusting, the excuse about it being hot was just that, an excuse. Yes it was hot but the other horses didn't seem to be so affected as the winner. Maybe questions should be asked around his fitness level. The horse giving it all he could does not wash with me either.
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Have you ever looked at horses competing in hot countries?, or perhaps what went on at the Atlanta Olympics and the extensive British research project that preceded it. Ever seen a high end endurance ride, or how about A 200 k race in the Desert over 2 days?? a flat race in mid summer or humans running a marathon in summer? Aggressive cooling is absolutely the thing that has to be done to combat hard work in hot conditions, and clearly organisers had thought of this in advance or there would not have been enough buckets of water to hand on the course to cool all the horses regardless of if they finished the race with or without a rider.

Also it was very clear that all the horses had been given the OK to cool the horses trackside and proceed directly to the stables rather than the enclosures in advance. The winner was tired of course but looked much improved for the immediate cooling and since they didn't film much else than him there was not really a suitable comparison. Most if not all of the jockeys dismounted on the course so their horses could be cooled and I have seen much more exhausted horses when any distance race is run in soft going. Yes a faster pace in heat takes it out of them and lactic acid build up will make them wobbly as soon as they stop, but with the cooling and walking they recover very quickly, heavy ground really wears them out.

These horses are very well prepared athletes it has absolutely nothing to do with fitness, it was a distance race in much hotter than usual conditions run on good ground at a fast pace.
 
paddi22 said:
but don't you think if two eventing horses died on the same course and a jockey is in critical condition that some adjustments would be made to how that event was run in future?

you talk about lowering the jumps, but not about reducing the running field. the amount of horses running is lethal, as the other poster said, the race would be the same even with ten less horses, but be immesurably safer
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The race was cut short today, nothing else to add, tooo cross
 
Sun
It was you who brought him into the discussion with your ill timed comment. Others had just commented previously to wish him well, you did not.
 
Caledonia said:
You could well be right - I think that's more common than reported. (One Man, Detroit City, etc) I didn't see it clearly enough, but I do also think he was dead on landing, or as soon as he broke his neck.

Either way, it's tragic. Both horses had falls similar to the one that has hurt Peter Toole. Brave men and horses.
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how can you describe the horses as brave? they run through flight instinct & have no understanding of the dangers they face?
 
lhotse said:
Sun
It was you who brought him into the discussion with your ill timed comment. Others had just commented previously to wish him well, you did not.
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I did not read the entire posts, I only read the first page then skipped to the end, seeing briefly a mention of a sick fellow, then I considered my response to the horse deaths. I apolgise to you personally if you felt I was heavy handed in my response, that was not my intention, I just did not see how his fall was connected to the horse deaths ok?
 
Sun said:
how can you describe the horses as brave? they run through flight instinct & have no understanding of the dangers they face?
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You're basing your opinion on what experience?

I've worked with racehorses and eventers at a high level. Some are brave and relish their job, some don't and find new jobs. Nothing to do with flight. If they didn't want to do it, and flight was their preferred option, they'd bugger off in the other direction.

Sheesh - muppet city tonight...........
 
tbh im on the fence wiht this debate - yes i hate that 2 horses have died, seeing the fallen jockeys beign trampled i wonder hwo they survived. I felt so sorry for the winnng horse - teh state of him when he was led in.

But I myself knowingly risk my own and my horses health even life jus thacking out - and no im not exagerating, i have to do some roadwork to get anywhere and there are some bloody idiots out there.
I cannot guarantee unfortuantely my horse and i will will return happy, safe and well after each hack - i just pray to god we do and do everything i can to lessent the risk - im sure the trainers and grooms love these horses and work very hard to do the same re trainign etc
It is sad xxx
 
KarynK said:
Have you ever looked at horses competing in hot countries?, or perhaps what went on at the Atlanta Olympics and the extensive British research project that preceded it. Ever seen a high end endurance ride, or how about A 200 k race in the Desert over 2 days?? a flat race in mid summer or humans running a marathon in summer? Aggressive cooling is absolutely the thing that has to be done to combat hard work in hot conditions, and clearly organisers had thought of this in advance or there would not have been enough buckets of water to hand on the course to cool all the horses regardless of if they finished the race with or without a rider.

Also it was very clear that all the horses had been given the OK to cool the horses trackside and proceed directly to the stables rather than the enclosures in advance. The winner was tired of course but looked much improved for the immediate cooling and since they didn't film much else than him there was not really a suitable comparison. Most if not all of the jockeys dismounted on the course so their horses could be cooled and I have seen much more exhausted horses when any distance race is run in soft going. Yes a faster pace in heat takes it out of them and lactic acid build up will make them wobbly as soon as they stop, but with the cooling and walking they recover very quickly, heavy ground really wears them out.

These horses are very well prepared athletes it has absolutely nothing to do with fitness, it was a distance race in much hotter than usual conditions run on good ground at a fast pace.
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that wasn't me.... I was quoting someone else.... :-) I am a racing girl married to a jump jockey who has been round aintree more than once... an no I have never looked at a National winner and thought wow that was light a bit of work!!
 
Also - i cant say my horse "loves" hacking - he can get quite stressed and would certainly be much happier left in his field
 
Aintree spokesperson Charlie Hopkins told us, “We looked at the statistics, and in light of the number of equine deaths that have occured in the race over the years, it seemed fairer to destroy the horses before the race rather than run them to exhaustion first.”

“After all, the horses are our primary consideration. Well, after the gate receipts, sponsorship, television rights and gambling revenues.”

The 2nd paragraph hit home to me..... I understand that this is a "spoof" document but there are some hidden truths contained therein.

Again this post is not related or retaliating to anybody else, democracy rules!
 
I am not a fan of the GN because a lot of the enjoyment (for me) is taken away by the fact that I do expect horses to go down/injured./die in this race. If you look at the normal statistics of the whole meeting, then "normally" it is 6 -8 horses who die during the meeting. I would be interested to see how these compare with other NH races?. I am by no means anti racing, prefer jump to flat racing and do enjoy it .

I don't agree that you can keep trying to compare chasing at this level to eventing. Eventing has had its (very well publicised) awful accidents and been/is trying to do something to make the sport safer. Can I also remind posters that for a horse to actually get to run around Badminton, it does have to have a proven record to be eligible. i.e I couldn't decide to run a novice horse around it. I know a lot has been done to try to make the GN safer without taking away the thrill but I would also go with the restriction of the field numbers. Any bright ideas about some sort of basic qualifications as well?

I am ashamed that I can't remember the name but the memory has stayed. Some 15 years or so, there was a stunning gray who was favourite to win, full page spread in the H&H the preceding week - I watched him being knocked into by another horse having just taken off over a fence and as a result land on his side with a broken neck.
 
Caledonia said:
You're basing your opinion on what experience?

I've worked with racehorses and eventers at a high level. Some are brave and relish their job, some don't and find new jobs. Nothing to do with flight. If they didn't want to do it, and flight was their preferred option, they'd bugger off in the other direction.

Sheesh - muppet city tonight...........
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there's a sign right there that it is not me that is being a muppet tonight.

I know the difference of an animal with a big heart & and an animal who is running off instinct.
 
Sun said:
how can you describe the horses as brave? they run through flight instinct & have no understanding of the dangers they face?
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Some do - like all disciplines there are the thinkers, and there are the death or glory animals. I have race horses, and one is running tomorrow - I love it and hate in about equal amounts.....But two of my three horses only want to race - I think that the third does, but I don't know him as well yet. The first is the thinker, he brings himself into training every year - and loathed his year off due to injury - he is the thinker - and looks after himself. The second runs with enthusiam, but no brain, or sadly ability - but loves it so much and the third we shall see. But they all love their job and have no wish to stand in a field or be a happy hacker.
I love them all, and really do not want any harm to come to them, but I have to be pragmatic. All I can do is try and get them to the races fit and educated to run to the best of their ability, hopefully safely.
However, my thoughts are with the young man who is critically ill in hospital tonight - that is far more important - and as my own flesh and blood rides my horses, and others his choice, but also the career he has chosen. It is very hard as his mother to be part of that, my heart goes out to the parents and loved ones of that boy, and I do hope he makes a full recovery. To the Mullins family, and the connections of the Nicholls horse, I am very sad - but as Ruby said in his autobiography, it is out the back door - i.e. not people. Those lovely two horses died, I suspect, doing a job they loved, and whilst the empty stables will be difficult to adjust to - they went a few years ahead of their time, as opposed to decades.
 
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