Supervet

[CorvusCorax]

I fell out with my Dad when I said no animal of mine would have prosthetics/be put in a cage for weeks or months.
Apparently this means I do not love my dog
The dog in question lives to run and jump and generally be a dick. He would never understand what was happening and it would make him miserable.

I agree he's just think he's made a lot of people believe their profoundly injured animals, either through accident, genetics and/or poor management 'have a chance'.
There's also an element of 'it doesn't matter if I buy this genetic trainwreck of an animal that can't breathe/stand/walk properly, SOMEONE CAN FIX IT'.

 

[misst]

My biggest bugbear with him (and from my earlier post you will know I am also thankful for his and his teams interventions int he past) is that he doesn't discuss breeding or lack of health checks etc. He has a platform to do this and to educate anyone wanting to buy a puppy from a breeder about the pitfall of unchecked breeding. It is such a missed opportunity.

 

[splashgirl45]

What really upset me was a 9 year old Great Dane who he put through spinal surgery as she was having trouble standing. Danes often don’t not even get to 9 and that is old for a giant breed. That’s when I decided I couldn’t watch him anymore..
When my collie cross had trouble standing I would not have even put her through any examination to see what was wrong, she was 15 and didn’t need to be mauled about , I knew it was her time and the only regret I had was I wish I had made the call before she couldn’t stand, I feel guilty about that..

 

[CorvusCorax]

My biggest bugbear with him (and from my earlier post you will know I am also thankful for his and his teams interventions int he past) is that he doesn't discuss breeding or lack of health checks etc. He has a platform to do this and to educate anyone wanting to buy a puppy from a breeder about the pitfall of unchecked breeding. It is such a missed opportunity.

Hallelujah

 

[MurphysMinder]

My biggest bugbear with him (and from my earlier post you will know I am also thankful for his and his teams interventions int he past) is that he doesn't discuss breeding or lack of health checks etc. He has a platform to do this and to educate anyone wanting to buy a puppy from a breeder about the pitfall of unchecked breeding. It is such a missed opportunity.

This ! The only episode I’ve watched this series had a “Shepa doodle” with as I recall both hip and elbow problems. A golden opportunity to point out how crossing 2 breeds prone to same issues , without health tests , shouldn’t happen but nothing said ?

 

[ester]

An old one but I do remember someone with a young shepherd with screwed hips that they PTS, and she then went and bought another one from the same breeder and I did wonder how it hadn't been communicated that that might be a bad idea.

The ones that make me a bit uncomfortable are the big dog bone cancer ones, they don't last that long after and it's a big surgery to put them through.

 

[SusieT]

I think something to remember is that most pets will have a safe experience in his hospitals i.e. there will be good pain relief, experienced staff looking after that. Versus some of the practices where they are 'giving it a go' without the level of knowledge or equipment because owners can't afford more expensive practices.

Legs being amputated and dogs living on 3 legs when 2 months of care and attention and yes some rest might have left them with 4 very happy legs for the rest of their life can be very sad - and sometimes I think people opt for this leaving an animal with a lifetime of 'managing' because they are scared of rest/managing post op a dog. Dogs do do well on three legs but they do better on four (caveat- working!)
And bear in mind some of us owners would never consider spinal surgery even on a 2yr old dog. Some of us would like to do surgery on our otherwise well dog and are not scared by it just because it is surgery. Him offering it is not wrong in all scenarios or right in all scenarios.

He is not responsible for bad breeding, he is not responsible for owners bad decisions - he is trying to fix what is broken by other people. If we have no visionaries we have no progress. This of course should not compromise welfare.
Would I want to work with him? No - but I appreciate some things he does nobody else does.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

My biggest bugbear with him (and from my earlier post you will know I am also thankful for his and his teams interventions int he past) is that he doesn't discuss breeding or lack of health checks etc. He has a platform to do this and to educate anyone wanting to buy a puppy from a breeder about the pitfall of unchecked breeding. It is such a missed opportunity.

I absolutely agree. Even on the Paul O’Grady show, they had a brief shot of the nurses discussing how so many brachycephalic dogs needed remedial surgery and bemoaning the fact that lots of owners are still unaware of this and how they should be educated. I was clapping. The Australian vet (Vet on the Hill?) in Richmond also had a section where he spoke about bracy dogs inevitably needing surgery. All respect to them, I really think this message needs to be rammed down the throats of people buying these dogs. Somebody on mumsnet was on about a bracy puppy she’d bought and she got her arse handed to her in a big way.

I would say it is ethically and morally essential for vets get on their soap boxes about this.

 

[twiggy2]

I think something to remember is that most pets will have a safe experience in his hospitals i.e. there will be good pain relief, experienced staff looking after that. Versus some of the practices where they are 'giving it a go' without the level of knowledge or equipment because owners can't afford more expensive practices.

Legs being amputated and dogs living on 3 legs when 2 months of care and attention and yes some rest might have left them with 4 very happy legs for the rest of their life can be very sad - and sometimes I think people opt for this leaving an animal with a lifetime of 'managing' because they are scared of rest/managing post op a dog. Dogs do do well on three legs but they do better on four (caveat- working!)
And bear in mind some of us owners would never consider spinal surgery even on a 2yr old dog. Some of us would like to do surgery on our otherwise well dog and are not scared by it just because it is surgery. Him offering it is not wrong in all scenarios or right in all scenarios.

He is not responsible for bad breeding, he is not responsible for owners bad decisions - he is trying to fix what is broken by other people. If we have no visionaries we have no progress. This of course should not compromise welfare.
Would I want to work with him? No - but I appreciate some things he does nobody else does.

Thats a little contradictory as surely when he does things no one else does he is 'giving it a go'? he doesn't have access to wonder drugs that no other vet does and not all animals respond to drugs in the same way anyway. Also his vet nurses are normal vet nurses not wonder nurses.
Having 4 legs is not always preferable as the 4th previously damaged leg can become arthritic so the animal is better without it in the long run.

 

[ycbm]

I think something to remember is that most pets will have a safe experience in his hospitals i.e. there will be good pain relief, experienced staff looking after that. Versus some of the practices where they are 'giving it a go' without the level of knowledge or equipment because owners can't afford more expensive practices.

I think anyone who's had an operation or been close to anyone who has will tell you that pain relief in humans is far from 100% and I'm sure that's the same for animals. I wouldn't put any of my animals through the pain I've seen friends and relations go through, when they can't understand it.
.

 

[Moobli]

An old one but I do remember someone with a young shepherd with screwed hips that they PTS, and she then went and bought another one from the same breeder and I did wonder how it hadn't been communicated that that might be a bad idea.

The ones that make me a bit uncomfortable are the big dog bone cancer ones, they don't last that long after and it's a big surgery to put them through.

That pup came from a respected breeder with extensively health tested dogs. Sadly, in breeding as in nature, there can be anomalies. Extremely sad case. But it wasn’t mentioned on the programme that buying from health tested stock is always preferable which is a real
missed opportunity.

 

[ester]

Ah good to know, it was probably >6/7 years ago I think and just one I remembered and that testing wasn't mentioned.

 

[druid]

He must be doing something right judging by the size of his practice and the amount of money they must turn over.

You'd be surprised - went to a talk by him (vet only) and he happily explained that being about 2 million in debt with the bank was the tipping point at which it was less profitable for them to make you bankrupt if you couldn't make repayments vs giving you more money to keep it all going. The oncology side of his practice, at least at the time, was also non profit

 

[Aru]

I'm a fan I must admit. I think he has done more for advancement of surgery in the vet world then most. He's bringing in a lot of new technology and is innovative enough to use it.

I've been to conferences where he's given talks and he's extremely passionate and was more then happy to go over time to try and discuss procedures and options to try and raise the bar for what vets can do. This was in Ireland several years ago. We aren't in his catchment for referral. He just wanted to let people know more is possible now...because some people do want that level of care for their pets.

Sure not everyone wants to spend that sort of money on a dog and not every dog will tolerate the hospitalisation aftercare etc...but the option is now there to fix things that were previously a death sentence/a life of chronic pain or amputation.
Some of his advanced surgeries have lower complications rates and better longterm outcomes then those done day to day in normal practices. They all get high standard pain relief etc.
Ethics absolutely come into it....but ethics are a challenge constantly in veterinary. He gets held to a higher standard then most because he's public about what he does....

He was millions in debt that will never be repaid in his lifetime when he was giving the talks I went to..I doubt thats changed much.
But the practices and change in standard and options he's introduced are a game changer. Even the show does let people know that high level intervention does exist for pets.
Love or hate him as a person theres no doubt he's showcased high level care and options to the world.

I also see it as a positive thing that the work he's done on canine bone tumours and prosthetics can be now used to help with treating children's bones cancers and giving options for limb sparing surgeries... I struggle to see that hes advanced human medicine as well as a bad thing. Dogs have been used to experiment on and research human surgery for a very long time. At least now some dogs are also benefiting not just humans.

 

[splashgirl45]

As someone who has had hip replacements I know just because it’s been replaced doesn’t mean no pain. I question when he confidently says the dog is in no pain after the ops they go through . We all know by the time your dog is showing signs of discomfort it is pretty bad, unless of course it’s a sight hound who screams if he has a slight injury??, I accept that there is a level of pain immediately after ops, and I question putting an older dog through it just to get a few more months of life..

 

[Nasicus]

The vets I've spoken to who have had dealings with him have all been... less than complimentary about the mans attitude.
Personally, the phrase 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' springs to mind. By no means am I saying all his work fits that category, but there are some cases where you really do have to ask yourself 'why?'. I'd rather see him telling someone that it's unfair to subject their geriatric dog to a major operation and recovery time and that it's okay to let them go, than to see him perform it and subject the dog to that in their twilight years.

 

[Birker2020]

We are all different in terms of what we think are acceptable. I don't have any issue with dogs with wheels because they lead a very active life and are still able to run and have fun with other dogs and enjoy the freedom that this gives them. Others people are horrified.

I think Supervet is very forward thinking and clever and knowledgable and only does things for the benefit of the pet. I do agree that at times I have wondered at times when watching an episode if what he is doing is entirely ethical but when you see the dog running around and leading a fulfilling life after it has recovered I feel glad he has intervened and helped the dog and don't doubt him. He is like a modern day Nostradamus or HG Wells in that he can see into the future and thinks outside the box and there is nothing wrong with that imho.

 

[Birker2020]

My biggest bugbear with him (and from my earlier post you will know I am also thankful for his and his teams interventions int he past) is that he doesn't discuss breeding or lack of health checks etc. He has a platform to do this and to educate anyone wanting to buy a puppy from a breeder about the pitfall of unchecked breeding. It is such a missed opportunity.

I agree, I think he could educate people better.

I watched an old episode of The Yorkshire Vet this morning about an elderly bitch being treated for Pyometra and if I'd have been filmed I would have explained what it was and said by spaying the dog this could have been prevented. Same with the brachycephalic breeds and the breathing issues that they encounter. Not enough education.

These people have the ideal platform in which to educate and they don't. Whether that's because it would seem like they are being critical of their clients or what I don't know. Maybe it doesn't fit the narrative that the programme director wants them to follow.

 

[HelenBack]

We are all different in terms of what we think are acceptable. I don't have any issue with dogs with wheels because they lead a very active life and are still able to run and have fun with other dogs and enjoy the freedom that this gives them. Others people are horrified.

I think Supervet is very forward thinking and clever and knowledgable and only does things for the benefit of the pet. I do agree that at times I have wondered at times when watching an episode if what he is doing is entirely ethical but when you see the dog running around and leading a fulfilling life after it has recovered I feel glad he has intervened and helped the dog and don't doubt him.

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The only thing with that is that a dog who can't walk also can't poo or pee for themselves so has to either wear a nappy or make a mess everywhere, which isn't very dignified for them. They can also only wear the wheels for a certain amount of time so the rest of the time have to drag themselves about or be dependent on their owners to move them. A lot of them give themselves sores from either dragging their back paws or lying in one place too long.

This isn't to have a go at you, I don't judge people either way on this and I think what suits one dog wouldn't work for another. It's just that not everybody realises the full extent of things when they see a dog out in wheels. If it is happy in the home too then that's fine but often I wonder if we just get a little snapshot when we see them out and about and don't really see the full picture.

 

[Birker2020]

If it is happy in the home too then that's fine but often I wonder if we just get a little snapshot when we see them out and about and don't really see the full picture.

Possibly right there Helen. I must admit I don't know a dog in wheels personally but have seen them out and about in town and they always look incredibly happy.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Someone I know had a GSD that had to use wheels. I never saw it but a mutual friend who did was not impressed. She said the dog was happy when out and about but at home had to drag itself about and she felt it just wasn't fair. I agree, couldn't do it to one of mine. I have had a hip replacement myself and if I could afford it and the dog wasn't elderly wouldn't hesitate about it for my dog. Equally the spinal surgery he does which seems to be almost routine now. There are a lot of treatments I am not at all sure about and wouldn't entertain for my dogs though particularly with cancer.

 

[P3LH]

It isn’t for me, and I’ve voiced similar here before so I know I’m a broken record. I could probably still have the dog I lost just over 12 months ago here with me today had I been willing to turn him into the bionic dog. I didn’t, as I knew he would have loathed every part of it.

For me the show has gone too far many times. One sticks out but I can’t recall the breed, elderly dog out through significant surgery due to bone cancer, with long recovery period etc as the owners just wanted as much time with him as possible. At the end of the show it said when the dog had died and it didn’t last much longer in the broader scheme of things. And this was allowed to happen. Too much for me

 

[CorvusCorax]

No dog of mine will ever be on wheels or have a prosthetic limb.

For dogs on wheels, how do they clean themselves or lie down when they feel like it? What is the damage to the remaining limbs, where they have to over-compensate?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Deleted, repeating myself.

 

[TPO]

Agree, it's solely for the human and not the animal. I do judge people who keep dogs/animals going in wheels and the likes and/or support it and "like" the shared propaganda on social media.

I must have liked too many cute animal pictures and videos on Instagram so the algorithm started suggesting animal accounts. I was getting a whack of "promote disabled animal" account where dogs and cats in nappies were dragging themselves about and people saying how "happy" the animals were. They did not look happy to me. All blocked but it's disgusting that there is such a big movement (based on account sizes) promoting keep animals like that and at all/any cost.

There needs to be some sort of licensing for all animals and there should be a section dedicated to the end of life be the animal and the owner responsibilities. How you'd police it I've no idea!

 

[skinnydipper]

If I had a dog diagnosed with osteosarcoma it would be euthanised, no messing.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I think the problem with the programme and the way it is edited, is that it makes regular Joe Bloggs thinks that there is ALWAYS a chance, and I am sorry, but there is not and some animals are definitely suffering because of the belief that life can be extended, whatever the monetary cost or the cost to the animal itself.
That poor, poor dog in my street that has no use of his back legs at all and gets held up with yoga bands and dragged around in a buggy makes me want to weep.

Fair enough if people think he is great, but as long as everyone knows what he is doing and has their eyes open. If he wasn't a charismatic cheeky TV chappy and some anonymous dude in a lab coat operating in an experimental way on people's pets to advance veterinary and human medicine, I'm not sure a lot of people would be so favourable.

 

[Birker2020]

https://www.handicappedpets.com/blog/5-need-to-know-dog-wheelchair-tips/
Apparently they can poop/wee in chairs.
Anyway each to his own I guess.

 

[CorvusCorax]

https://www.handicappedpets.com/blog/5-need-to-know-dog-wheelchair-tips/
Apparently they can poop/wee in chairs.
Anyway each to his own I guess.

Nah

 

[Birker2020]

I think the problem with the programme and the way it is edited, is that it makes regular Joe Blogs thinks that there is ALWAYS a chance, and I am sorry, but there is not and some animals are definitely suffering because of the belief that life can be extended, whatever the monetary cost or the cost to the animal itself.
.

I agree. We had our 14 year old beagle bitch booked in to be euthanised as the results of her blood test came back that she had acute kidney failure. We were just waiting on our vet giving us the results. She hadn't eaten for four days nor drunk for two or three and we were syringing water in her just until we got the results so the vets would know what was wrong with her and could treat her.

When they told us over the phone partner asked if we could keep her over the weekend and bring her in on the Monday. They said yes but I berated my partner as she was clearly suffering, and that would have been for us and not her.

When we went to the vets at the pre arranged time we'd booked to pts we had a vet give us, what would be to some people 'a lifeline'.

"We can extend the life of your dog by offering her kidney dialysis twice a week"

We both said no thank you, a dog who is 14, has come to the end of her life, that is exhausted as she is so weak from not eating or drinking. Clearly uncomfortable. Cage her for two days a week at a vets practice (she was terrified at being at the vets) just so she can have kidney dialysis at a cost of several hundred pounds I don't doubt. To give her a couple of weeks of 'life'. Nah.

That really upset and annoyed us.