Supervet

[skinnydipper]

https://www.handicappedpets.com/blog/5-need-to-know-dog-wheelchair-tips/
Apparently they can poop/wee in chairs.
Anyway each to his own I guess.

So that's a site selling dog wheels?

A quick glance and I see that I have had dogs with two of the conditions that they are recommending wheels for - degenerative myelopathy and hip dysplasia.

Wheels are a hard no from me for both of those conditions.

 

[Birker2020]

So that's a site selling dog wheels?

.

Agree its probably bias but then again they wouldn't be allowed to claim such a thing if they couldn't and didn't know where else to google it.
Thing is I know only too well that just because a dog is paralysed doesn't mean it will be paralysed forever.

I have seen first hand a situation where a daschund was paralysed and a friend who is a canine physio swam it in the owners bath and carried out limb movements (don't know what scientific name is) every other day for a month or more and it regained all function.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Having had several dogs go off their legs with DM I would never consider wheels. Yes I have seen dogs out and about looking happy in their wheels , but I have also seen dogs who when not in wheels can only drag themselves around and soil themselves. I didn't mind helping my dogs to stand occasionally if they were wobbly as long as they can potter round happily, but if they deteriorate much beyond that then I will let them go.

Back to Supervet, it is the complicated surgeries on older dogs that I really don't agree with, a lot of stress for maybe a few months more. In my view that is for the owner not the dog. I have to confess that my young Lancashire Heeler had orthopaedic surgery, he had a front leg deformity which caused lameness on and off from a few months old. There is a brilliant ortho guy up here, and I saw him and was so impressed with his approach. After scans (the 3d imaging was grim but fascinating) I had a 30 minute appointment to discuss options, and everything was explained so clearly. No pressure, he said some dogs manage without problems if they lead a quiet life but my pup was a running , leaping loon. Vet also said if I decided not to have surgery there would be no judgement. My biggest worry was keeping said bouncy pup on crate rest, complete for 2 weeks and then restricted, but after a week or two to think it through we went ahead. He sailed through the op, apparently spent the night post surgery watching films on the night nurses knee . He coped better than I hoped with the crate rest, it helped he was small and could be carried around a lot. Not quite 12 months after the op he will shortly enter his first agility show. So I am definitely not against all these advances just think each case should be considered on individual merits, and from what I have seen of the programme that is not always the case.

 

[Rowreach]

We are all different in terms of what we think are acceptable. I don't have any issue with dogs with wheels because they lead a very active life and are still able to run and have fun with other dogs and enjoy the freedom that this gives them. Others people are horrified.

I think Supervet is very forward thinking and clever and knowledgable and only does things for the benefit of the pet. I do agree that at times I have wondered at times when watching an episode if what he is doing is entirely ethical but when you see the dog running around and leading a fulfilling life after it has recovered I feel glad he has intervened and helped the dog and don't doubt him. He is like a modern day Nostradamus or HG Wells in that he can see into the future and thinks outside the box and there is nothing wrong with that imho.

View attachment 97711

Prefacing my reply to state that it wouldn’t matter who had posted the above (before I get accused of anything) but I could not disagree more ?

 

[twiggy2]

https://www.handicappedpets.com/blog/5-need-to-know-dog-wheelchair-tips/
Apparently they can poop/wee in chairs.
Anyway each to his own I guess.

An old dog that needs 4 wheels is most likely suffering from arthritis/joint degeneration of some type and as a result very likely to be in pain, why oh why would anyone want to pull the dog about to put it in a frame that removes any choice it has to lay down or rest?
Wrong on every level for me

 

[splashgirl45]

There is no way any pet of mine would have wheels. If it was a temporary fix I might consider it if the dog was young with a chance of full recovery , but even typing this I am feeling that I wouldn’t. They might look happy when charging about but that is a very small part of their day so what about the other 23 hours? It’s the major operations on old dogs that I can’t bear, my old lurcher went off her food and the vet thought it might be her teeth, I decided to let him put her under and sort out the teeth but told him if he found anything like cancer etc to not bring her round and to let her go. I collected her and she ate a little bit of chicken and ham then stopped eating again and I had her PTS after trying for a couple of days.. she was 14 and a half..and vet agreed with my decision, and I’ve never regretted it..

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I think Supervet is very forward thinking and clever and knowledgable and only does things for the benefit of the pet.

I have to disagree with the latter part of this statement. Unfortunately I do not believe for one minute that a quite high percentage of things he does are only for the benefit of the pet.

Far from it, they are mostly for the benefit of his overriding wish to be seen as a pioneering and world leading experimental vet and of course his television career and personal ego. I do not think he shows much natural empathy and care for some of the animals brought to him for treatment. He simply would not impose such pain, indignity and stress when he knows full well, at best it might increase their life span a very short while, but in many cases that minor increase in life span will be horrific for the pet.

I do wonder how many of his supposedly groundbreaking experimental surgeries actually achieve a successful outcome. That would be interesting statistics to read.

 

[splashgirl45]

Agree mrs j, he isn’t doing it for the pets but for the owners and the prestige…

 

[ycbm]

This dog doesn't look happy to me, it looks anxious.

 

[ycbm]

I'm a fan I must admit. I think he has done more for advancement of surgery in the vet world then most. He's bringing in a lot of new technology and is innovative enough to use it.

I've been to conferences where he's given talks and he's extremely passionate and was more then happy to go over time to try and discuss procedures and options to try and raise the bar for what vets can do. This was in Ireland several years ago. We aren't in his catchment for referral. He just wanted to let people know more is possible now...because some people do want that level of care for their pets.

Sure not everyone wants to spend that sort of money on a dog and not every dog will tolerate the hospitalisation aftercare etc...but the option is now there to fix things that were previously a death sentence/a life of chronic pain or amputation.
Some of his advanced surgeries have lower complications rates and better longterm outcomes then those done day to day in normal practices. They all get high standard pain relief etc.
Ethics absolutely come into it....but ethics are a challenge constantly in veterinary. He gets held to a higher standard then most because he's public about what he does....

He was millions in debt that will never be repaid in his lifetime when he was giving the talks I went to..I doubt thats changed much.
But the practices and change in standard and options he's introduced are a game changer. Even the show does let people know that high level intervention does exist for pets.
Love or hate him as a person theres no doubt he's showcased high level care and options to the world.

I also see it as a positive thing that the work he's done on canine bone tumours and prosthetics can be now used to help with treating children's bones cancers and giving options for limb sparing surgeries... I struggle to see that hes advanced human medicine as well as a bad thing. Dogs have been used to experiment on and research human surgery for a very long time. At least now some dogs are also benefiting not just humans.

I absolutely get what you are saying ARU but there are a number of times in this piece that you use the word "care" when I think you mean "treatment".

For example "some people do want that level of care for their pets." carries a fairly strong suggestion that others who turn down his treatments want less care for their animals. That isn't the case, they want less of the invasive treatment, not less care.
.

 

[Clodagh]

View attachment 97739

This dog doesn't look happy to me, it looks anxious.

I think that is cruelty on an enormous scale.

 

[ArklePig]

I don't know about anyone else but I've found this thread really upsetting, especially the wee white dog on wheels. I haven't watched the Supervet in many years but I don't think I could watch it now. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to grasp that a dog lives in the here and now- they're not laid up at home in their crates thinking 'oh I'm bored off my tits, stressed and anxious and can't exhibit any natural behaviour but at least I'll have my wheels on soon and be able to go for a walk'. We have a duty to them to balance treatment/care and quality of life, it's not about owners and what they want at all. Do I think Dr Fitzpatrick is a genius? Yes. Would I bring my pets to him? No.

Sorry that got a bit ranty.

 

[bonny]

I don't know about anyone else but I've found this thread really upsetting, especially the wee white dog on wheels. I haven't watched the Supervet in many years but I don't think I could watch it now. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to grasp that a dog lives in the here and now- they're not laid up at home in their crates thinking 'oh I'm bored off my tits, stressed and anxious and can't exhibit any natural behaviour but at least I'll have my wheels on soon and be able to go for a walk'. We have a duty to them to balance treatment/care and quality of life, it's not about owners and what they want at all. Do I think Dr Fitzpatrick is a genius? Yes. Would I bring my pets to him? No.

Sorry that got a bit ranty.

I’ve watched a lot of episodes of supervet and I’ve never seen a patient of his end up with wheels ?

 

[skinnydipper]

I absolutely get what you are saying ARU but there are a number of times in this piece that you use the word "care" when I think you mean "treatment".

For example "some people do want that level of care for their pets." carries a fairly strong suggestion that others who turn down his treatments want less care for their animals. That isn't the case, they want less of the invasive treatment, not less care.
.

It is because we love and care for our dogs that we can make a decision based on their best interests and not ours.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Talk of HG Wells and Noel Fitzpatrick in the same sentence is making me think of large metal tripod dogs blasting everything with heat rays and roaring ULLA!

Someone else can do a Nostradamus one.

 

[Clodagh]

I suspect people forget that dogs aren’t people. We love them, and they are part of our families, and it’s awful that they are only with us for such a short time.
If you look at a disabled person, eg my mum’s partner, who is now dead. He was in agony with his ankles and could no longer walk. They hurt even when he just sat there. The immobility caused him other problems. But he was still able to read, watch tv, engage and converse. He knew the alternative to pain was death. Dogs don’t know that.

 

[Aru]

I absolutely get what you are saying ARU but there are a number of times in this piece that you use the word "care" when I think you mean "treatment".

For example "some people do want that level of care for their pets." carries a fairly strong suggestion that others who turn down his treatments want less care for their animals. That isn't the case, they want less of the invasive treatment, not less care.
.

That wasn't the impression I was trying to get across at all. Apologies. Swap in treatment in those two spots. The written word catches me out a lot for these sort of things. I tend to just write what I would say in the same context.

Personally I don't feel think this level of specialist intervention is for everyone or suitable for every animal (i euthanised our older lab for a cruciate injury at 13 for context to that. While the surgery was possible I didnt think it was in her longterm best interests with her other health issues) ....but despite my stance being "better a day to early then a day to late", as medicine advances there are more options that I get to consider for my own pets and need to be able to mention to clients. Specialist centres like Fitzpatricks so have a different level of treatments availiable then gp.

Imo a vets job is to offer clients all their options. We don't get to screen and not offer all options just because it isn't something we personally would do or because we think the owner cannot afford or may not want to do it. It's a tricky situation sometimes.

The vet boards have made it clear(by sanctioning people in the complaints process) We must offer all options to clients for them to chose from and decline. Lovely world of liability that we live in.
Each person makes the medical and financial choices for their own pet to suit their own lives.

 

[ycbm]

That wasn't the impression I was trying to get across at all. Apologies. Swap in treatment in those two spots. The written word catches me out a lot for these sort of things. I tend to just write what I would say in the same context.

Personally I don't feel think this level of specialist intervention is for everyone or suitable for every animal (i euthanised our older lab for a cruciate injury at 13 for context to that. While the surgery was possible I didnt think it was in her longterm best interests with her other health issues) ....but despite my stance being "better a day to early then a day to late", as medicine advances there are more options that I get to consider for my own pets and need to be able to mention to clients. Specialist centres like Fitzpatricks so have a different level of treatments availiable then gp.

Imo a vets job is to offer clients all their options. We don't get to screen and not offer all options just because it isn't something we personally would do or because we think the owner cannot afford or may not want to do it. It's a tricky situation sometimes.

The vet boards have made it clear(by sanctioning people in the complaints process) We must offer all options to clients for them to chose from and decline. Lovely world of liability that we live in.
Each person makes the medical and financial choices for their own pet to suit their own lives.

Great response, thanks ARU. You have a very difficult job and it's not treating the animals that makes it so difficult!

 

[misst]

The only dog I knew on wheels was in them at home and out and about. He seemed very very happy. He had a spinal injury some years before and there was no surgery at that time. He did pee and poo but had a sort of atrophy of his hind limbs. He raced round the village green retrieving balls and interacted with others very happily. He could not do stairs (obviously) so was carried up at night to sleep on the owners bed. I am no vet or specialist but he was, to me, a happy chap. He was a small lightweight white dog not unlike the one shown.

 

[rabatsa]

The dog I knew that was on wheels was a dachshund, owned by an older gentleman.

Initially the dog was very happy. Then it started to lose its sparkle but still had interest in things. Finally it lost interest in everything, it would hang back at the end of the extendable lead as it followed its owner on walks. The owner was not brilliant on his pins and the walks were slow, he did not seem to notice that the dog was not enjoying them anymore. they both spent a lot of time sat watching tv together, the dog on the old mans knee.

When the gentleman had to go into hospital his daughter had the dog put down.