Tell me I'm Daft. . . . .

[dorsetladette]

A decent sized yard has come up for rent locally. It's got an indoor school which is a real rarity around here. There is a big/up and coming competition yard/centre in walking distance of the yard and its within easy commuting distance from a couple of big towns so within easy reach for potential liveries. It looks a bit sorry for itself as been empty for a few months. New surface in the outdoor school.

https://www.symondsandsampson.co.uk...-road-west-parley-ferndown-bh22-8sq/wia220024

I'm thinking, get a pro in with there own horses on site which will encourage liveries that follow/like that pro or sphere.

I've got a hay/straw supplier that would do consignment orders. As current one has already offered this on a smaller scale.

The ground over there gets wet in winter so I wouldn't want to offer 24/7/365 grass livery, but I think the land could hold up to a full yard ok (it has done in the past.)

Bridle way straight off the land with no road work.

A couple of offices on site have previously been used as a tack shop - I'd happy rent out these for the same purpose or similar.

I wouldn't intend to muck out 35 (or less depending on pro's requirements) stables myself so would need to employ a couple of yard staff. I wouldn't want DIY or Part livery. I also wouldn't want to exercise that many either, so would possibly approach either the potential onsite pro or work with another freelancer.

I don't think there would be enough time to hire out the schools externally, but maybe holding clinics would be an option.

Tell me I'm mad for considering it?

 

[peanutsmumma]

This is just up the road form me. I didn't realise it was empty!

 

[dorsetladette]

This is just up the road form me. I didn't realise it was empty!

No I didn't until we went for lunch at the Curlew (highly recommend by the way) and was puzzled by the lack of activity so did some digging.

Fancy going halves?

 

[reynold]

Check what the business rates are. Indoor schools are expensive in that respect.....

 

[peanutsmumma]

No I didn't until we went for lunch at the Curlew (highly recommend by the way) and was puzzled by the lack of activity so did some digging.

Fancy going halves?

I could be tempted

 

[SilverLinings]

I don't know the area at all, but looking at the site-plan it looks like the yard is on the edge of a built up area? If that is the case then are the owners just waiting until they get planning permission/an offer from a developer, because if so you could put a lot of work into establishing it as a yard and then be given notice when they want to cash the property in. It could be worth it if you guaranteed a decent length of tenancy though (and I may be completely wrong about the area of course!). I only say this as I had to leave a yard previously where the owner had said he'd never sell as it had been in the family for generations, and then he got a generous offer from a developer and we had 2wks to leave. It was on the edge of a village and within 12 months it was covered by a new 'luxury' housing estate.

I hope I am very wrong though as it is so sad to see yards built on, and this one looks like it could be lovely with a bit of TLC

 

[holeymoley]

It looks great, I don't think your mad at all. Why did it go bust in the first place though?

 

[ponynutz]

Don't think you're mad especially given how rare indoor schools are. If you can afford it I'd give it a go. Even if you put some money and work into it and it doesn't work out you could easily sell or rent it on for more than you originally got it for because you did it up a bit.

Why did it go bust in the first place though?

This I do think is important to find out if you can (locals will almost certainly know).

 

[Fraggle bells rock]

Another not far away that knows the yard.
It could be an amazing facility , but think it will need some money frown at it, as looks quite run down.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think the only thing you might struggle with is only offering full livery that's a lot of stables to fill on that basis.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Questions:

Would the tenant be expected to pay for initial repairs, fencing, paint, that would be needed before you could open?
Can you get a reduced rent for a few months while it's empty and being fenced etc & then gradually filling? (Work out how full it would need to be to break even.)
Is there a shortage of good livery in the area? What is the competition like?
Do you actually know a pro with their own horses who would be interested?
Tack shop (or cafe may be??) - do you know someone looking to move?
Have you looked into the insurance costs?
Being near a town can be a double-edged sword. Have you budgeted for security?
Would they agree to a long notice period if they ask you to leave?

That said, I like the look of it. It seems well laid out and a practical size

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Looks like it's been empty a while.

OP, we had a yard not far from me, similar acreage, no indoor but a fab 75 x 35 outdoor, 2 huge barns with indoor stabling plus 2 x accom on site.
The reason its failed twice over is they couldn't get enough staff and the last lessors ran themselves into the ground after being continually let down by staff. This was despite paying over the odds, being generally nice people etc.
25 part or full liveries need staffing. (Plus own 4 or 5 horses)

It's been empty for nearly 2 years now, owner is a speculator and leases were only granted for 18 months.

 

[dorsetladette]

It was a riding school which closed due to retirement. Then I think it was bought by a wealthy (ish) family that own an estate agents chain for their daughter who is an accomplished horse woman. I think she lost interest and here it is now.

Its very close to the airport. And land around it is being built on so you could be right in thinking they are holding onto it for development.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It was a riding school which closed due to retirement. Then I think it was bought by a wealthy (ish) family that own an estate agents chain for their daughter who is an accomplished horse woman. I think she lost interest and here it is now.

Its very close to the airport. And land around it is being built on so you could be right in thinking they are holding onto it for development.

Possibly yes it's an ideal site for it

 

[Abacus]

I expect you are doing this, but you will need to make a detailed business plan of the costs and expected income, remembering taxes, staff costs (salary, pension etc), insurance, and the financial arrangement with the pro. And as others have said, the likely size of the market. It would be easier to only offer full or part livery but that would depend on whether there are enough people locally willing to pay for this.

Do you have other income to see you through at least while you launch and are getting liveries in? - that sort of money is hard to find each month until you have the place full.

It's a shame it doesn't have accommodation as you might find a good couple of stable girls / riders willing to live there with their own horse and do the yard work and hacking, maybe schooling if they are good enough. Maybe a mobile home for them? Sounds like fun but also bloody hard work! Good luck, keep us posted!

 

[Xmasha]

It sounds a lot of work, for potentially a lot of agro and little return. So its a ' you're daft' comment from me.

It would be different if you where able to purchase it, but the state its in it needs money spending on it, would you get that back ? would the owners help with the renovations etc ?

 

[dorsetladette]

It sounds a lot of work, for potentially a lot of agro and little return. So its a ' you're daft' comment from me.

It would be different if you where able to purchase it, but the state its in it needs money spending on it, would you get that back ? would the owners help with the renovations etc ?

Thank you - I think I am too!

Especially heading into winter when I'm currently sat in a lovely warm office. But i just can't get it out of my head.

I probably wouldn't work and I'd end up filling it full of pity purchases and have no room for liveries anyway! And I don't really like people which could cause a bit of an issue.

Fencing looks a bit ropey looking at the photos again.

 

[Fraggle bells rock]

It has had several people try to run it successfully over the years. But has kept failling which is a pity. Late 80s and through the 90s it was a lovely competition yard. Always full of liveries. But the fields weren't great. Backing on to the common it also tended to get very muddy and poached in the winter. Alot of the hacking was very thick mud, although haven't ridden that common for alot of years now so they may of updated the bridleways.

 

[Dexter]

I think it would be insanity to take on a yard and try to fill it with 30+ full liveries when in this area at least, no one wants full livery now. Everyone is cutting back to part/assisted/DIY.

With the cost of the rent, insurance, staffing, repairs etc etc etc you will be lucky to break even and thats if your running at nearly full capacity. And thats without taking a wage for yourself which is sounds like your planning on doing.

Theres a reason people tend not to rent property to run livery yards without another income stream. They dont make money.

 

[dorsetladette]

Questions:



That said, I like the look of it. It seems well laid out and a practical size

Would the tenant be expected to pay for initial repairs, fencing, paint, that would be needed before you could open? would need to ask.
Can you get a reduced rent for a few months while it's empty and being fenced etc & then gradually filling? (Work out how full it would need to be to break even.) this is what I wanted to ask initially.
Is there a shortage of good livery in the area? What is the competition like? I'd say yes, but others my think differently. There is a few smaller DIY liveries but not good quality full livery I don't think. This is the competition yard a couple of hundred yards up the road.
https://www.parleyequestrian.co.uk/
Do you actually know a pro with their own horses who would be interested? I know of 1 I would approach straight away and a couple of others that work from smaller yards with no grazing and worn out old surfaces.
Tack shop (or cafe may be??) - do you know someone looking to move? Cafe could work. Or maybe a tea room with a coffee vending machine? 2 really good second hand tack shops have closed in that area in the last couple of years. it either has opened up the market or their isn't a market for that sort of thing any more.
Have you looked into the insurance costs? I've got a rough ball park figure for insurance, but would need to talk to someone properly.
Being near a town can be a double-edged sword. Have you budgeted for security? When it was a riding school the security was pretty hot, we have friends we call favours from for security systems.
Would they agree to a long notice period if they ask you to leave? again another question to ask.

 

[sbloom]

I've saddle fitted there but not been for about 5 years, the outdoor school was deep, the stables a bit dark but otherwise seemed okay. I think there used to be some kind of food business there, alongside the outdoor (ish). Much more than that I'd not know!

 

[Birker2020]

A decent sized yard has come up for rent locally. It's got an indoor school which is a real rarity around here. There is a big/up and coming competition yard/centre in walking distance of the yard and its within easy commuting distance from a couple of big towns so within easy reach for potential liveries. It looks a bit sorry for itself as been empty for a few months. New surface in the outdoor school.

https://www.symondsandsampson.co.uk...-road-west-parley-ferndown-bh22-8sq/wia220024

I'm thinking, get a pro in with there own horses on site which will encourage liveries that follow/like that pro or sphere.

I've got a hay/straw supplier that would do consignment orders. As current one has already offered this on a smaller scale.

The ground over there gets wet in winter so I wouldn't want to offer 24/7/365 grass livery, but I think the land could hold up to a full yard ok (it has done in the past.)

Bridle way straight off the land with no road work.

A couple of offices on site have previously been used as a tack shop - I'd happy rent out these for the same purpose or similar.

I wouldn't intend to muck out 35 (or less depending on pro's requirements) stables myself so would need to employ a couple of yard staff. I wouldn't want DIY or Part livery. I also wouldn't want to exercise that many either, so would possibly approach either the potential onsite pro or work with another freelancer.

I don't think there would be enough time to hire out the schools externally, but maybe holding clinics would be an option.

Tell me I'm mad for considering it?

Wow go for it! It looks amazing. This is the type of yard I know would be hugely popular in my neck of the woods.

I know you say you don't want DIY's but that is ruling out a huge percentage of trade and you can charge for extras (on an assisted DIY basis) like turnout, bring in, holding for vet, haying, trailer/lorry parking etc

You'd only need to charge £120 per week per horse for full livery and bring in £6250 a year. Times that by 20 horses and you have £125K a year and you would be 83K in profit before overheads. Muck shifting would be your major pay out, as would utilities and staffing costs. If you had half Assisted DIY and half full livery maybe you could manage that with yourself and one part time person and still bring in a profit. I don't know.

But I will say that staffing is a huge problem in our neck of the woods and its very hard to find good reliable staff, with the emphasis on reliable.

 

[Polos Mum]

With the current economic climate people will want to reduce costs and move away from full livery not into it.
finding sensible staff is a struggle in all sectors.

I would have a good think about what you could do to be different that wasn't super staff intensive -

rehab livery ? - but that's needing good staff
water treadmill?
retirement livery run in the barn in the winter so not trashing turnout / much out with tractor weekly?
track livery for fatties - hard work but lots of demand
Young stock livery - if fields would cope

Full (sensible) business plan is essential

Initial key questions
- what is the lease term and minimum notice they can give you? Would they agree to a longish period
- what is the capital commitment they are prepared to make (lump sum or nil rent) for you to do it up ?
- how much turn out can the land cope with - vague but the more turn out the less staff and the difference between 30 horses and 40 might be big in income terms.
- any restrictions on what you can / can do from a planning / council perspective
- what is the current / latest business rates bill
- any other financials they can share (electric bill x 200% for recent prices) would really help validate your plan
- water on a meter? if so last bill


I'd budget to spent £20k on fencing repairs to start - lots of baggy barbed wire in the brochure !!

 

[planete]

A yard came up for lease some years ago locally. I was tempted and had a word with the people who were leaving. They showed me the books, official, and unofficial. The reality was that without the revenue from the bed and breakfast rooms in the farmhouse and the fishing business from the lake they would have been bankrupt. I passed as I did not fancy doing B & B and they were keeping the fishing rights. I would have had to remortgage my house to raise the capital for the lease and any improvements and would have risked losing everything if it had not worked out. I too think you are mad, especially with the present economic situation. The rates on a commercial indoor school can also be horrendous.

 

[dorsetladette]

I think I'm going to have to look even if its just to write it off if nothing else. I can't get it out of my head. I grew up on a yard my parents ran. I'd have taken over their business in a heart beat if I'd had the opportunity (they divorced and sold up).

I'd love to do youngstock and/or retirement livery, but I don't think this is the yard for that. The land gets wet in winter and it wouldn't hold up to permanent grazing land.

 

[Birker2020]

I'd love to do youngstock and/or retirement livery, but I don't think this is the yard for that. The land gets wet in winter and it wouldn't hold up to permanent grazing land.

I was on a yard where we the land comprised mainly of peat. The horses only got turned out between May - Sept (if we had a good year) and the rest of the time they were taking in turns out for 2 hours a day on a sandpit. So if you were offering Full livery you need to take into account the time those horses will be stabled as a stable horse will eat into your profits (literally) and need extra forage/bedding/time.

 

[Polos Mum]

No harm in a good walk round and chat to them about what their long term plans are.

It looks on the plans like some fields (nearer) are drier than the ones listed as marshy.

Maybe build a business plan around say 8-10 full liveries with great turn out (it's always turn out that attracts people / makes people leave a yard) and see whether that made financial sense. Have a look on here at the description of the top class yards and see whether you could do that for a small number of people prepared to pay top whack for top service

The wet fields could be used to make your own forage saving ££'s

35 horses on 38 marshy acres is a disaster of bedding / staff / hay proportions.

I'm with you on DIY - endless moaning / broken stuff and stress for £30 a week and they wear the facilities really hard

 

[tda]

Nothing to stop you starting a business plan, but be very realistic with your cash flow forcast ! That's a lot of money per month in rent
I reckon if it all went well you'd get to keep your own horses there for free but that's about it.
But yes, go enquire !

 

[ester]

My main thought that for poss £ livery of 35 horses the schools both being only 20x40 might not be ideal but does depend on the area.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I also looked at this briefly as I have ridden there,used to be based at Parley and am still local-ish...then I remembered several people have tried to make a success of this place, the turnout was pants and the hacking is also rubbish in winter (and summer ?).

I don't think there is much call for Full in the ara anymore. The area already has Parley, Hurn and The Oaks within 10 min radius.