The 20% rule

[windseywoo]

My interest in this thread is that as horse owners, all of us seem pretty aware of what is fair for our horses to carry and what isn't. I worry about the poor horses that you see on programmes like You've been framed, were morbidly obese people think its funny to get on a horse and it carry them around with no balance and then they can't get off and fall off like some elephant seal. You can see the poor horse's look of horror when these people try to get on and yet the owners of these animals let them get on. They should be made to get on some scales and then stopped from getting on the horse whether they have paid or not. These horses I don't feel have the best of lives and are probably burnt out by 14.

 

[Cortez]

Out of interest, is this for all kinds of riding? would different saddles help overcome conformation 'defects' in the rider (like iberian saddles, western, stock etc etc?) I don't know - just wondered (ps I'm sort of the right conformation for riding except for overlong back but find modern dressage saddles the most uncomfortable things on earth, though that maybe due to muscle-memory from a childhood of dodgy ponies with equally dodgy showing saddles )

Nope, the style of saddle doesn't compensate for the rider's shape, although some are harder to fall out of than others If you haven't ridden a lot of dressage it may be that the different position the saddle puts you in is making you use different muscles, that are protesting. The same thing tends to happen when people who have always ridden with short leathers are asked to lengthen them. No pain, no gain....

 

[cobgoblin]

ALL of these people are too heavy to ride these horses if we use 15%

About a stone and a half over:

About 2 stone over:

this one by nearly 3 stone:

And this one by 3 stone again, probably more, plus the horse is carrying a fair amount of excess weight:

And yes, I do know what all of these people actually weigh stood on scales, so I'm not guesstimating anything, other than how overweight the chestnut was, he lost a lot of weight and I cant remember what he was at this point

The last two definitely look too heavy for their horses.
The first pic looks as though the rider has outgrown their pony.
Second pic is not clear enough to tell anything.

 

[FfionWinnie]

My horse is 106kgs more on the scales than that chart puts her at. She is in perfect fit condition.

 

[catkin]

Nope, the style of saddle doesn't compensate for the rider's shape, although some are harder to fall out of than others If you haven't ridden a lot of dressage it may be that the different position the saddle puts you in is making you use different muscles, that are protesting. The same thing tends to happen when people who have always ridden with short leathers are asked to lengthen them. No pain, no gain....

Thanks, I did wonder.

Funnily enough I've done quite a lot of riding in older style flat-seated dressage saddles and with legs long (hour upon hour on the lunge) and, shock horror, been moorland hunting in an especially comfortable old dressage saddle.

Which are the saddle styles that are hard to fall out of? Baby pony might quite like one of those as he gets more adventurous with his hacking !

 

[Pigeon]

But studies based on single or few sessions do not take into account the cumulative effect of weight bearing, do they?

Exactly, it's a different thing entirely when it's happening every day for a year, compared to one go round the arena for an hour.

 

[Cortez]

Sometimes not falling off is not the best thing! Traditional Portuguese saddles are best, and very comfortable for the horse as they have a large bearing surface. They can be heavy though...bearing in mind the subject of this post.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It is not just rider weight that needs to be taken into consideration. It is the horses conformation too.

In theory a Clydesdale would be able to carry a phenomenal amount of weight but in reality their power is in the front end for pulling. They have very weak back ends and hocks which is not great in a riding horse.

A Shetland on the other hand will be able to carry more weight for its height due to its compact build.

 

[Wagtail]

I think smaller horses in general have a better weight carrying capacity in relation to their size. But Shetlands particularly so.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I think you look perfect on the grey. He/she looks very light in front. You look a bit small on the dark brown, though you seem to be riding her very effectively. I think you look a bit on the heavy side for the small fine bay. Lovely horses.

Pretty much what I'd say, I'm generally around the 9.5 stone mark, grey is about 15.3hh, black is 15.2/3hh and bay 14.3hh.

Still feel a touch big on the grey but as she's only four she will probably end up making me look smaller than I do on the black!

Topaz makes me feel tiny sometimes, and is probably a touch wasted with me and mum weight wise as she is a good weight carrier for her height.

Doodle I'm very careful with and need to get my weight down a bit more for her really, but as she's semi retired these days she's going ok with the work load.

 

[Mongoose11]

Pretty much what I'd say, I'm generally around the 9.5 stone mark, grey is about 15.3hh, black is 15.2/3hh and bay 14.3hh.

Still feel a touch big on the grey but as she's only four she will probably end up making me look smaller than I do on the black!

Topaz makes me feel tiny sometimes, and is probably a touch wasted with me and mum weight wise as she is a good weight carrier for her height.

Doodle I'm very careful with and need to get my weight down a bit more for her really, but as she's semi retired these days she's going ok with the work load.

But earlier we had a slightly heavier rider (by half a stone) on a smaller horse (by almost a hand) told that they were absolutely fine on their horse despite the horse being 24 and arthritic. Go figure!

That poster hadn't provided a picture though 😂

 

[sasquatch]

I am 5"4, haven't weighed myself recently as it's a bit too scary but probably am around 11 stone at most.
B is a 15hh LW cob type, who when these photos were taken was in work 5/6 days a week. I'm well aware he is most likely hollow, he has massive shoulders and we are working on getting him engaged through his back more instead of being on his forehand as it is easier for him. He doesn't work to an outline and drop and tuck his nose in, however he is starting to feel more like he is lifting and pushing through his back, and looking more round through his back and hind end which is what I would rather encourage instead of a false outline. I'm not sure on his weight.

Conformation wise, he isn't too bad and his back is a bit long and he has tiny ears. As for rider conformation, I will be surprised if it's any good as I have scoliosis and one leg shorter than the other
We also both have the same problem of looking much taller/shorter than we actually are.

 

[ycbm]

It's no good any of us talking about single horses or multiple horses in short term studies.One horse was still in work at twenty five? Who knows, with a lighter rider it might still have been in work at thirty. A hundred horses carried 20% without any problem for two hours? Fine, show me x rays of their joints compared to 100 that didn't, after a ten year trial.

The only way we can answer this question is long term studies in large numbers of horses. Until we get that I will err on the side of gut feel and caution. That for me is 15% on a decently made horse for everything except a walk around the block. If other people have a different limit, fine, but that's mine.

 

[ycbm]

Sasquatch I think you need to knock off at least 20% for the tiny ears

 

[Wagtail]

I am 5"4, haven't weighed myself recently as it's a bit too scary but probably am around 11 stone at most.
B is a 15hh LW cob type, who when these photos were taken was in work 5/6 days a week. I'm well aware he is most likely hollow, he has massive shoulders and we are working on getting him engaged through his back more instead of being on his forehand as it is easier for him. He doesn't work to an outline and drop and tuck his nose in, however he is starting to feel more like he is lifting and pushing through his back, and looking more round through his back and hind end which is what I would rather encourage instead of a false outline. I'm not sure on his weight.

Conformation wise, he isn't too bad and his back is a bit long and he has tiny ears. As for rider conformation, I will be surprised if it's any good as I have scoliosis and one leg shorter than the other
We also both have the same problem of looking much taller/shorter than we actually are.

You say you are 5'4? No way do you look even close to 11 stone. Not to me in any case. You also look great on your horse.

 

[huskydamage]

But earlier we had a slightly heavier rider (by half a stone) on a smaller horse (by almost a hand) told that they were absolutely fine on their horse despite the horse being 24 and arthritic. Go figure!

That poster hadn't provided a picture though 😂

Dont know how to do a picture off my phone, done them before but it involved some faffy bbcode. There must be a simpler way?. I actually weigh 63kgish but am putting 65 for clothes and stuff. Is that enough? How much for the saddle ? I have a weigh tape so will attempt to work this out properly at some point,be interesting to know my percent!

 

[Mongoose11]

Dont know how to do a picture off my phone, done them before but it involved some faffy bbcode. There must be a simpler way?. I actually weigh 63kgish but am putting 65 for clothes and stuff. Is that enough? How much for the saddle ? I have a weigh tape so will attempt to work this out properly at some point,be interesting to know my percent!

Lighter saddles weigh around 8kg and your clothes/boots will be more than 2kg. I know that 'posters' have previously preferred to add 1.5 stone for tack/clothes as a minimum.

My point was that you were told you were fine to go ahead and crack on but a rider who was lighter, with a bigger horse was not - figure that one out?! It was merely because in the photo it 'appeared' that the rider 'may' have been too heavy. At 9.5 stone on a 14.3 animal - they most likely aren't 😂

Anyhoo, your horse could be 340kg or it could be 430kg so you'd need to know that bit first.

That chart won't work for everyone. Doesn't work for mine or FfionWinnie's super fit sports cob - it's out by 100kg.

 

[Wagtail]

Dont know how to do a picture off my phone, done them before but it involved some faffy bbcode. There must be a simpler way?. I actually weigh 63kgish but am putting 65 for clothes and stuff. Is that enough? How much for the saddle ? I have a weigh tape so will attempt to work this out properly at some point,be interesting to know my percent!

I weighed myself once without clothes and then got dressed and weighed myself dressed ready to ride (winter) including hat and held a saddle. It added just over two stone to my weight. I had riding boots, body protector and hat. Two stone is around 12 kg. If your horse is fit and muscled, with good conformation, then I would expect you personally would be well within 20%. I do believe that some horses, and especially ponies, are capable of comfortably carrying 20% of their weight. But that would be if they are an ideal weight for their height, fit, at peak age, have good conformation, tack fits very well and their rider is well balanced. IMO in the absence of this information, then I would rather err on the side of caution than just tell anyone who asks what weight their horse can take that it is 20% of the horse's weight.

 

[Leo Walker]

If your horse is fit and muscled, with good conformation, then I would expect you would be well within 20%.

which you think is too much?!

 

[Goldenstar]

Folks this thread makes my head ache .

 

[Wagtail]

which you think is too much?!

Read my whole post which was edited at the time you posted.

 

[Mongoose11]

I weighed myself once without clothes and then got dressed and weighed myself dressed ready to ride (winter) including hat and held a saddle. It added just over two stone to my weight. I had riding boots, body protector and hat. Two stone is around 12 kg. If your horse is fit and muscled, with good conformation, then I would expect you personally would be well within 20%. I do believe that some horses, and especially ponies, are capable of comfortably carrying 20% of their weight. But that would be if they are an ideal weight for their height, fit, at peak age, have good conformation, tack fits very well and their rider is well balanced. IMO in the absence of this information, then I would rather err on the side of caution than just tell anyone who asks what weight their horse can take that it is 20% of the horse's weight.

You've already estimated that the 14h 'skinny type', arthritic 24 year old weighs 400kg. At 400kg, a rider of 63kg tack plus rider gear of around 12kg, you are endorsing a rider who is 19% of this horses weight, riding it regularly and in hard work. You said earlier it was fine. This is despite knowing that the horse isn't in perfect condition and doing fast work. Now you're suggesting these weights are only ok when all else is in perfect condition/balance...or if it's a pony?

So which is it? Is 20% or close to it only for light work/walking round the block? Or does it really depend on how you look because you thought the other lovely poster who was only 7lbs lighter on a bigger horse was too heavy for it once you'd seen her.

I'm sure you'll just continue to ignore me - which is fine but come on 😂

 

[huskydamage]

https://youtu.be/3pNAP29A0-U

Here's a link of me riding my pony it's old, but there are recent photos of me online but they are on a photographers website and have other people in. Not sure if forums rules etc it's ok to post the link to those?
How accurate is the weigh tape? I remember using it once and thinking the weight it gave seemed a bit odd.
Definetly going to try to work this out though.
Was genuinely interested in this thread as it's something ive not of heard of, but does it have to get so ranty?! Lol

 

[Mongoose11]

https://youtu.be/3pNAP29A0-U

Here's a link of me riding my pony it's old, but there are recent photos of me online but they are on a photographers website and have other people in. Not sure if forums rules etc it's ok to post the link to those?
How accurate is the weigh tape? I remember using it once and thinking the weight it gave seemed a bit odd.
Definetly going to try to work this out though.
Was genuinely interested in this thread as it's something ive not of heard of, but does it have to get so ranty?! Lol

What a whizzy thing she is!

 

[Equi]

Has anyone weightaped themselves? Lol

 

[Mongoose11]

I am 5"4, haven't weighed myself recently as it's a bit too scary but probably am around 11 stone at most.
B is a 15hh LW cob type, who when these photos were taken was in work 5/6 days a week. I'm well aware he is most likely hollow, he has massive shoulders and we are working on getting him engaged through his back more instead of being on his forehand as it is easier for him. He doesn't work to an outline and drop and tuck his nose in, however he is starting to feel more like he is lifting and pushing through his back, and looking more round through his back and hind end which is what I would rather encourage instead of a false outline. I'm not sure on his weight.

Conformation wise, he isn't too bad and his back is a bit long and he has tiny ears. As for rider conformation, I will be surprised if it's any good as I have scoliosis and one leg shorter than the other
We also both have the same problem of looking much taller/shorter than we actually are.

Lovely boy! He's very handsome!

 

[ycbm]

"

https://youtu.be/3pNAP29A0-U

Here's a link of me riding my pony it's old, but there are recent photos of me online but they are on a photographers website and have other people in. Not sure if forums rules etc it's ok to post the link to those?
How accurate is the weigh tape? I remember using it once and thinking the weight it gave seemed a bit odd.
Definetly going to try to work this out though.
Was genuinely interested in this thread as it's something ive not of heard of, but does it have to get so ranty?! Lol

I don't know about how much you or the pony weigh, but (for me) s/he doesn't fit you, you are simply too big for him/her I can't get the resolution good enough, but does your bottom actually fit in that saddle? Does s/he zoom away from the leg as much if you ride with stirrups of a more normal length?

Weigh tapes are only of any use to check increases and decreases in weight, and sometimes not even then (ofy a horse is so thin it has dips on the side of its spine it will put on a lot of weight before it records on the tape). They are very, very inaccurate.

 

[Snowy Celandine]

If I believed everything I read on here I doubt that I'd allow myself or anyone else ever to get on a horse again!!! Maybe we should all be no more than 7st dripping wet and even then only ever ride 17.3 WBs?

 

[ycbm]

If I believed everything I read on here I doubt that I'd allow myself or anyone else ever to get on a horse again!!! Maybe we should all be no more than 7st dripping wet and even then only ever ride 17.3 WBs?

I'm puzzled. What have you read on this thread that would lead you to that conclusion?

 

[Snowy Celandine]

I'm puzzled. What have you read on this thread that would lead you to that conclusion?

No comment