Wagtail
Horse servant
Well done, equi. Nothing like a horsey target for getting the pounds off. I struggled for over a year to shed enough weight to back my mare.
The 20% rule
- Thread starter Wagtail
- Start date
Well done, equi. Nothing like a horsey target for getting the pounds off. I struggled for over a year to shed enough weight to back my mare.
Equi
Well-Known Member
I have too. I eventually gave up on one loan cause i just could not loose enough weight. He did have navicular, which was not noticed until i started riding him more than a hack, but i'm 100% certain i aggravated it and its something i felt very guilty about, but at the same time it is the reason he got retired cause i spent about a year complaining to owner and getting tests done - she thought i was just making excuses cause i was nervous rider. The fact he was morbidly obese and his owner did not think it was an issue did not help. He was MUCH better with the weight off, but i still never got down enough to where i felt comfortable going above a walk on the flat on him.
Will share some pics, cause i know what was wrong. Poor boy is now in my orchard under the trees along with my first pony.
TheHairyOne
Well-Known Member
I agree with those who are saying even the weight of the horse is very difficult to judge. This guy is just 16hh, does not have a lot of bone, is (was 4 weeks ago anyway!) fit and in full work, wb cross and weighed in at 630kg. Vets were astounded.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Great start
Can I recommend that you weigh yourself every day? It helps, because weight naturally fluctuates up and down a bit, and if one of the random up days is the same as a weighing day, you can become so demoralised that you give up.
You'll get that blast!
Equi
Well-Known Member
Great start
Can I recommend that you weigh yourself every day? It helps, because weight naturally fluctuates up and down a bit, and if one of the random up days is the same as a weighing day, you can become so demoralised that you give up.
You'll get that blast!
I did buy some weights a few weeks ago so i COULD. SW tell you not to cause if you have put on you think **** it, if you have lost you think well i have lost i can eat now hahah. I just need to cook proper meals again, i used to be SO good at SW but i really just got complacent and fell off the wagon and stopped doing it. But my shock to the system came when i was asked for the trek, and i weighed and found i was 9lbs too heavy. Last time, i will be totally honest, i felt the horse struggle. A strapping 16hh+ heavy cob type who is trekked several times a day.
LadySam
Well-Known Member
Second this, with a good digital scale. Once upon a time I'd never have done this but it's working out really well for me at the moment. I'm using a Fitbit and also logging everything I eat and do. If my weight fluctuates up I can look back at my food and activity and see if I need to tweak anything.
But we digress. Back to the internet nipping and kicking?
rachk89
Well-Known Member
Yeah 10% is a little too low. Only people who weigh 55kg could ride my horse then and that's just silly. He is a large horse with large and strong legs he could carry more than me really with ease but i wouldn't do that to him. Most he has probably carried was 14st that was a very capable rider and they were jumping very easily. Horse was happy as anything getting to jump with someone not terrified haha. I would be more worried if he had thin legs but they are massive and he is pretty solid all over (his quarters are solid muscle he is more toned than the eventer on the yard there haha). He has no issues with carrying heavier people like myself. But I still want to lose weight.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
I agree with those who are saying even the weight of the horse is very difficult to judge. This guy is just 16hh, does not have a lot of bone, is (was 4 weeks ago anyway!) fit and in full work, wb cross and weighed in at 630kg. Vets were astounded.
I do like him, hope the bandage isnt a big problem. I like the look in his eye .
Wagtail
Horse servant
I have too. I eventually gave up on one loan cause i just could not loose enough weight. He did have navicular, which was not noticed until i started riding him more than a hack, but i'm 100% certain i aggravated it and its something i felt very guilty about, but at the same time it is the reason he got retired cause i spent about a year complaining to owner and getting tests done - she thought i was just making excuses cause i was nervous rider. The fact he was morbidly obese and his owner did not think it was an issue did not help. He was MUCH better with the weight off, but i still never got down enough to where i felt comfortable going above a walk on the flat on him.
Will share some pics, cause i know what was wrong. Poor boy is now in my orchard under the trees along with my first pony.
He doesn't look the most comfortable of horses, does he equi? Especially in the top picture he looks like he's struggling behind. To be honest, I think he would have struggled with someone half your weight and retirement was the best option for him.
Wagtail
Horse servant
He certainly doesn't look over 600kg! Beautiful horse.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I'm pleased to see that this thread has taken a much more sensible turn and is back on track. Thank you for all the constructive replies. It seems that the majority of people would agree that 20% is too high a value, but that 10% would be completely impractical. Obviously common sense, experience and being a good judge of the horse's condition and conformation are the most important factors in making a decision about its weight carrying ability, but it is probably safe for simplicity's sake to advise people that normally 15% is a good safe limit for the majority of horses. Some may be able to cope with more, others with less, but telling people they are okay at 20% is potentially exposing their horse's to harm IMO.
hackedoff
Well-Known Member
I find the rule somewhat baffling and peoples take on it. My pony weighs 430kg and has 9 inchs of bone at 13.3 HH. I weigh 68 to 70kg (depending on time of day at the moment) and am overweight for my height and on a diet. In theory she is happy to carry me, yet aesthetically I don't look right. if I posted a picture here with me on her Im sure people would say I am too heavy yet in theory I am not and in practice she has no issue with carrying me. So overall I think the 20% rule is a load of tosh.
Equi
Well-Known Member
Yes his owner is feather light and after finally riding him herself she agreed he was "not right" so the only riding he got after that was her 8yo leading about the field.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Just having lunch and worked out J my TB can carry 19 stone 5 lbs if you do 20% that is clearly ridiculous .
At 15 % it is 14 stone 6lbs I think that an OK weight for him to carry he's a big strong fully adult horse with lots of bone .
At 10% it's just over 9 and a half stone ,common sense should tell us that all nine and a half stone people not need to ride and 620 kilo horse .
I took the wieght he is when he's fit .
At 15 % it is 14 stone 6lbs I think that an OK weight for him to carry he's a big strong fully adult horse with lots of bone .
At 10% it's just over 9 and a half stone ,common sense should tell us that all nine and a half stone people not need to ride and 620 kilo horse .
I took the wieght he is when he's fit .
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I hover just under 15% of my horses fit weight. It's fine but I am conscious that it would be better to be less. I'd love to be 13%, but realistically 14% is achieveable.
I couldn't imagine putting anywhere near 20% on her, as far as I'm concerned I'm about the max she should be carrying.
I couldn't imagine putting anywhere near 20% on her, as far as I'm concerned I'm about the max she should be carrying.
asterope
Well-Known Member
I agree with those who are saying even the weight of the horse is very difficult to judge. This guy is just 16hh, does not have a lot of bone, is (was 4 weeks ago anyway!) fit and in full work, wb cross and weighed in at 630kg. Vets were astounded.
What a lovely, lovely face your boy has! I do hope he makes a full recovery. And you're right, he certainly doesn't look anywhere near that weight!!
indie1282
Well-Known Member
20% of my WB weight is 18 stone - there's no way I would put that on him!
Agree that 15% is a good guideline to use.
BBP
Well-Known Member
With tack I am 15% of my ponys body weight. This is the absolute most I would put on him, not because of the body weight percentage but because he is a weak horse with a tendency to go hollow and have a weak back. He also has no bone at all to him, I can nearly touch my fingers together around them. Ideally I would be lighter.
Then we have a pony who is significantly smaller (about 11hh at a guess, Dartmoor X Shetland) but everything about him is strong, he has sturdy legs at each corner and his conformation makes him much stronger for his size than my pony. We recently took him to a fun ride with a rider only a little lighter than I am. The welfare organisation running it gave us the okay to take him having checked him over and approved the combination. The rider and tack were approximately 20% of ponys body weight but he happily hacks for hours and is a total energiser bunny.
Then we have a pony who is significantly smaller (about 11hh at a guess, Dartmoor X Shetland) but everything about him is strong, he has sturdy legs at each corner and his conformation makes him much stronger for his size than my pony. We recently took him to a fun ride with a rider only a little lighter than I am. The welfare organisation running it gave us the okay to take him having checked him over and approved the combination. The rider and tack were approximately 20% of ponys body weight but he happily hacks for hours and is a total energiser bunny.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I think mechanics and physics would support the idea that smaller horses can carry more. The horse is a series of levers, especially below the knee and hock when there is no muscle. My mechanic tells me that the power of a lever increases with its length (though it's a very complicated set of calculations in a horse!). So the longer the bones, the higher the forces.
So there's every reason to believe that a Shetland should be able to carry 20% of its own weight easilly, with that figure reducing as the horse increases in size.
So there's every reason to believe that a Shetland should be able to carry 20% of its own weight easilly, with that figure reducing as the horse increases in size.
TheHairyOne
Well-Known Member
Cow (the lump of lard!) says thanks to all his admirers.
Keeping my fingers crossed for him. He managed to chip his sesamoid in the field, but so far recovery is going as well as can be hoped for.
Sadly i cant really give him away atm as this was the othee pic i had the morning after the first one to show you his weight...
Horses!!
Keeping my fingers crossed for him. He managed to chip his sesamoid in the field, but so far recovery is going as well as can be hoped for.
Sadly i cant really give him away atm as this was the othee pic i had the morning after the first one to show you his weight...
Horses!!
Wagtail
Horse servant
Cow (the lump of lard!) says thanks to all his admirers.
Keeping my fingers crossed for him. He managed to chip his sesamoid in the field, but so far recovery is going as well as can be hoped for.
Sadly i cant really give him away atm as this was the othee pic i had the morning after the first one to show you his weight...
Horses!!
Oops!
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Went to Iceland about this time last year and rode an Icelandic Horse (they are horses, try calling them anything else in Iceland!).Typically they are between 13 and 14 hands and a bit like a light weight cob in build.They are said to be able to carry up to 18 stone although the trecking centre I went to had a weight limit of 15 stone.We had about 1 and a half hours bum on saddle time.Work was walk,tolt (amazing and something I have always wanted to try) and rest breaks while the guide told us something about the landscape and geology of the place.Very interesting.All seemed fit and well.They had some still working well into their late teens early 20s.After we had dismounted in the arena and the horses were unsaddled we were told to leave the arena so the horses could have a roll before being put away.The guide told us that it was like physiotherapy for their backs.The standard of care for the horses seemed very high.
As they had so many horses they were only used about once a day on average and on long day rides in the summer,about 4 to 6 hours 4 horses would be taken for each rider so wouldn't be ridden for mor than about 1 and a half hours.
As they had so many horses they were only used about once a day on average and on long day rides in the summer,about 4 to 6 hours 4 horses would be taken for each rider so wouldn't be ridden for mor than about 1 and a half hours.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Sounds amazing. I'd love to try that. I have always untacked my horse in the arena after work and allowed them to roll. Problem is, my current mare likes to dig huge holes before doing so. Good job it's me who levels it!
stormox
Well-Known Member
The bit I find inconsistant though is that a typical TB is said to be able to carrry up to 13 stone by thiis rule. So an hour at a show carrying 13 1/2 stone is too much, but the minimum weight in an open point to point is 12st 2lbs - which is over 3 miles and approx 25 jumps possibly in heavy mud. I would think this would be much tougher.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Yes. But how many ex point to pointers are still leading active lives? I have reschooled a few, the oldest of which was only 11. They all had physical problems. Bowed tendons, kissing spines, hock arthritis...
Annagain
Well-Known Member
Is that because you're only getting the ones that have been retired from racing though? The fit, healthy ones are probably still out there doing it.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I have friends who between them and me have had the following point to pointers and low level hurdlers:
1. Sold sound at auction at eleven.
2. Shot at five, sacroiliac strain.
3. Sold sound at five, refused to race.
4. Sold with two blown tendons at seven.
5. Sold to stud unsound at five.
6. Sold privately at five, completely unsafe on a racecourse, mental.
7. Two years off with unresolved splints, pin fired then sold from field at eleven.
8. Shot at five, joint infection from a nick on a point to point fence.
9. Sesamoid ligament tear ended racing career at three.
10. Sound but required tie back at five.
On top of those I've had a number of three year old flat racers who were all sound, those are just the jumpers owned by myself and two friends, and all of them, no sound ones left out.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Not alive now but my TB Ben raced from two to eight ran numerous times came to us and hunted and did all sorts of RC type stuff he was pts at 22.
My friends ex national hunt did p to p for fun and hunted into his twenties .
Another friends must be pushing 30 now was still hunting in his early twenties
I actually can think of lots older TB's in hunting homes who are strutting there stuff as teenagers .
be positive
Well-Known Member
I have one here, now 12, raced extensively in Ireland, won his first p2p as a 4 year old, ran over 30 times in total winning 9, retired 21/2 years ago having broken down returned to race but not enjoying it, he has had a tie back, he bled badly when in training, had various bits injected but is having a lovely time at low level RC stuff, he is sound, barefoot, living out 24/7 until the weather turns and is a thoroughly nice person, that he is small well put together and moves freely is contributing to him finding the change of life reasonably easy, he has a talent for dressage and is now getting decent %'s every time out.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I've retrained a few ex flat racers that have been as sound as any riding horse and gone on to have useful riding careers but they have tended to be ones that haven't raced much, if at all, and have not been over jumps or hurdles. But that's just my experience. I have found however, that even the flat racers tended to be more unsound generally than other horses (kissing spines - that kind of thing). Obviously, this can't be due to weight though as flat racers tend not to carry much.