The agility thread

I was out of area for this one in any case and no harm I think in saying it was Dylan Osborne. No shade intended to the guy at all, I really enjoyed the course and did well on it, the lines were perfectly safe and there were plenty of handling options, it was a fun challenge both to walk and to run it. I also enjoyed his course last year and got round it, although with time faults that time, so I knew what to expect; I say notorious as seems so did everyone else due to the number of spectators that gathered.

However, he runs a dachshund cross Devongem (very successfully, again intending no shade!) and it shows.

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Out of interest I've just calculated small dog's metres per second on some of the courses from last week, he's normally around 3.9, last week he averaged 4.3, topping out at 4.6. No idea what put a rocket up his arse.

Large dog doesn't often get a time on the board but when she does she hasn't been below a 4.9, averages 5.6 and has managed a 6.1 jumping run. 🫠

In fairness on the course time thing, I don't like to see dogs literally walking round because I'm concerned they're unsound, unfit or don't want to be there (see also displacement sniffing etc.) and there needs to be some sort of gentle safeguard that makes that apparent, which should be the course time matrix. However many of the time faults I'm seeing more recently are from dogs travelling at a perfectly respectable or even very good pace. I can't see choosing 10-12 seconds below the recommendation from the matrix as anything but deliberately exclusionary.

I'm not sure what the end goal is of the people choosing to do this though, I really don't see that numbers getting through to champ are a problem. Last week was a good entry, still finished mid afternoon, back to back finals well supported ringside, by and large the 'names' still won as they usually do. They might have a point if there were 300 in each height and they were still slogging it out at 9pm but we're nowhere near that.
 
blackcob knows my now retired heeler. Yes he wasn't the fastest but he didn't walk round as some seem to imply about the slower dogs. He successfully got to Grade 6 then had several wins but all with time faults so never won to 7. Younger lad is a lot faster, albeit hampered by me, but even so his times are annihilated by wcs, and some of those are so tiny they will no doubt still be in micro height if we get it.
 
Same as D who had wins with time faults in G6 - again, not the speediest but still far from walking, and often the only course clear. And now the goalposts are moving again, I can't believe a time fault on a dog moving at over 4MPS, and there were 10 others with time faults on that course too.

I don't think micro changes anything for me, mine is over 30cm and if there's no champ for micro then I imagine the majority in G7 will elect to continue in small height even if their dog would measure in - assuming they'll be allowed to? I can't quite remember how it worked when intermediate came in, I had obvious larges throughout that period.
 
This weekend at Point Zero really depressed me. The courses now are so spread out and with so many technicalities that people like me who are hampered by age or just plain can't run are really getting pushed out. It is also really disappointing nowadays how few clear rounds there are. A friend of mine competing in medium G1-2 agility, she is G1, won her class yesterday with 47.946 faults. Only two other G1's were both E'd. Is this a record?

Not sure if the lack of clear rounds is down to training or the courses. Long gone are the days when there were up to 300 in a class and out of that probably 30 or more clear rounds. Really wish they hadn't extended the distance between obstacles.

My dog works well away up to a point and that is where I come unstuck. The G2 agility I was in ended with a run right round the perimeter of the ring starting with a seesaw. I didn't make it to the end, my legs stopped working.

Oh well got a much nicer small show this Sat run by Luke Taylor. Hopefully I will feel more cheerful after that.
 
Errin Paddywack said:
This weekend at Point Zero really depressed me. The courses now are so spread out and with so many technicalities that people like me who are hampered by age or just plain can't run are really getting pushed out. It is also really disappointing nowadays how few clear rounds there are. A friend of mine competing in medium G1-2 agility, she is G1, won her class yesterday with 47.946 faults. Only two other G1's were both E'd. Is this a record?

Not sure if the lack of clear rounds is down to training or the courses. Long gone are the days when there were up to 300 in a class and out of that probably 30 or more clear rounds. Really wish they hadn't extended the distance between obstacles.

My dog works well away up to a point and that is where I come unstuck. The G2 agility I was in ended with a run right round the perimeter of the ring starting with a seesaw. I didn't make it to the end, my legs stopped working.

Oh well got a much nicer small show this Sat run by Luke Taylor. Hopefully I will feel more cheerful after that.
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I'm the same, I can feel my legs giving up on some of the courses, and then run out of breath so have to just point rather than give commands :) . Enjoy your show, Luke's dad Graham used to run some amazing shows in Jersey, we went on holiday there every year. He also did some brilliant qualifiers over here sponsored by Barbour, with the final at the Royal Show.
 
MurphysMinder said:
I'm the same, I can feel my legs giving up on some of the courses, and then run out of breath so have to just point rather than give commands :) . Enjoy your show, Luke's dad Graham used to run some amazing shows in Jersey, we went on holiday there every year. He also did some brilliant qualifiers over here sponsored by Barbour, with the final at the Royal Show.
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Glad I am not the only one. Graham did indeed run some super shows, very sad loss but Luke has picked up his mantle and run with it. This show is one of two he runs at his own home near Baginton, one of my closest shows at only 11 miles.
 
I will be there on Sunday (Summer showdown).
Desperately trying to get my blind crosses in so I don't keep slowing my dog down.
We went to Fab yesterday, trying to push my boundaries running the ifcs courses. It was also our first day in G6. We actually got clear and 2nd place in the ifcs jumping. 15 faults in ifcs agility because he was off his head and got those faults by jump 4. The rest was perfect.
I am definitely the weakest link and really getting frustrated with myself for not getting better with my blind crosses. I've even lost 19lb in weight and only 1lb from target, and I still can't do the blinds in the ring. I do them easily in training but I can't convert it to competition. My timing is off 😭
 
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Course running night, ran well and didn't lose him to the tunnels (a LOT of discrimination work later!)

Large one has skinned her hocks again so trying to preserve her this week, got Jo Gleed and Sam Lane training days coming up.

Nothing entered now until KCI and I was feeling regretful until I saw the weather forecast for this weekend.
 
blackcob said:
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Course running night, ran well and didn't lose him to the tunnels (a LOT of discrimination work later!)

Large one has skinned her hocks again so trying to preserve her this week, got Jo Gleed and Sam Lane training days coming up.

Nothing entered now until KCI and I was feeling regretful until I saw the weather forecast for this weekend.
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This is why I’m happy to stay at grade 3! We went to Agillidogz independent show today , fully prepared to not run , but fair play to the committee, they’d really made every effort to keep dogs comfortable. Paddling pools , water buckets and large event shelters at each ring , minimal queues and they started early . We’d finished our 3 runs by 11 am and I think all classes were completed by 1 pm .
 
Went to show yesterday and today. For some reason they wouldn't start early. Paddling pools and wind breaks and strategic lorries to provide shade. Girls did their best but for some reason both decided they could no longer weave 🙈The worst part was being stuck in traffic on way back due to an accident. It was truly awful I was dripping!

Today girls went better but we withdrew from later classes as had just had enough. Roll on winter 😂
 
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Jo had me running both dogs on the same course which will never not blow my mind, they have to be handled completely differently. Also always fun with a new trainer to put the big drivey dog away and bring out a tiny velcro one, they're always like WTF even is that combo. 😂 Big focus on layering and distance today which seems to be the way of things.
 
Quite a lot of meaty recommendations in there - limbo period reduced to 18 days, maximum number of graded classes per day down to 2.

I assumed they'd go 280mm not 300mm for micro. I don't think mine will squeak in, leaving him a small small and still beset by cockers!
 
blackcob said:
Quite a lot of meaty recommendations in there - limbo period reduced to 18 days, maximum number of graded classes per day down to 2.

I assumed they'd go 280mm not 300mm for micro. I don't think mine will squeak in, leaving him a small small and still beset by cockers!
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Yes quite a shake up. I was hoping they'd go 280 mm to hopefully exclude the cockers ! Seems a bit unfair that all smalls have to pay for another measure even if they have no intention of competing at micro.
 
Yeah I didn't appreciate their reasoning on that, a measure might not cost a lot (is it still £6?) but travelling to a venue to find a measurer that hasn't previously measured your dog can cost you half a day and £££ in fuel. Even if mine were borderline I wouldn't be giving up the opportunity for champ and qualifiers at this stage anyway. I imagine there will be plenty of robust discussion on these points to come. 😆
 
blackcob said:
Yeah I didn't appreciate their reasoning on that, a measure might not cost a lot (is it still £6?) but travelling to a venue to find a measurer that hasn't previously measured your dog can cost you half a day and £££ in fuel. Even if mine were borderline I wouldn't be giving up the opportunity for champ and qualifiers at this stage anyway. I imagine there will be plenty of robust discussion on these points to come. 😆
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I had a nightmare getting Zig's second measure as I don't do many KC shows, and the ones I do go to are local so will probably struggle again . Shame they won't take his A4A measure.
 
I've used up the usual local ones too, and one of those was still over an hour away (but a show I was competing at anyway).

Now you mention it, both of the other agility schipperkes of our acquaintance measured into 250 at A4A, so he might be closer to borderline than I assume.
 
blackcob said:
I've used up the usual local ones too, and one of those was still over an hour away (but a show I was competing at anyway).

Now you mention it, both of the other agility schipperkes of our acquaintance measured into 250 at A4A, so he might be closer to borderline than I assume.
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To give you a guide , Ziggy measured 276 . You might need to run the clippers over him first to get rid of the mane 😁
 
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blackcob said:
My highly scientific method of squashing against the wall with a wooden spoon over the withers gives me approx 32cm for him and 60cm for her, which sounds about right.
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blackcob said:
My highly scientific method of squashing against the wall with a wooden spoon over the withers gives me approx 32cm for him and 60cm for her, which sounds about right.
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I stopped measuring Zen when she got to 63 cm, at 10 months :oops:
 
I’ve read the minutes, and I’ve just been training. Our small club runs two indoor KC shows a year, and needs people to book three runs per dog to break even, they have thrown their hands up in despair at the two KC runs max change. If you only have one dog, and live a long way from show venues, two is a bit rubbish tbh.
 
Spotherisk said:
I’ve read the minutes, and I’ve just been training. Our small club runs two indoor KC shows a year, and needs people to book three runs per dog to break even, they have thrown their hands up in despair at the two KC runs max change. If you only have one dog, and live a long way from show venues, two is a bit rubbish tbh.
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It’s just 2 graded isn’t it , plus 1 or 2 combined .
 
Oh have I read it wrong? Pawsability (Somerset) does 4 x graded at their winter and summer shows, and SWAT does 4 x graded too through the summer, they are my closest bigger shows, both around 140 mile round trip. I try to avoid combined, as a G1 running against G3’s.
 
“Regulation H(1)(A) 5.


TO:


A maximum of four standard classes may be scheduled for any dog on an


individual day of competition including a maximum of two graded


classes. Any number of special classes may be scheduled.”

I think you have misread it . I often do better in combined classes , he won a 1-4 when grade 2 .
 
I can never understand avoiding combined classes. When I first started competing back in 2000 I went for any class available to me. Often they were Open classes which covered all grades. In my first season I think the third show I did was at Hinckley show and was a Novice class. Can't remember the rules back then as to how I was able to. I just regarded it as experience. A young friend of mine has just moved up to G2 and has been avoiding C1-3. We have pointed out that if/when she grades up she will be in G3 so might as well run against them now. Same courses after all.
 
Errin Paddywack said:
I can never understand avoiding combined classes. When I first started competing back in 2000 I went for any class available to me. Often they were Open classes which covered all grades. In my first season I think the third show I did was at Hinckley show and was a Novice class. Can't remember the rules back then as to how I was able to. I just regarded it as experience. A young friend of mine has just moved up to G2 and has been avoiding C1-3. We have pointed out that if/when she grades up she will be in G3 so might as well run against them now. Same courses after all.
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I do run in them but I’d prefer to run graded. G3 large dogs absolutely spank me and Rew, and that can be demoralising.

Edited to add that we are very unlikely to ever go G2, as he is unreliable on weaves, and at best walks through them, getting time faults.
 
I am pleased about Micro and hopefully my girls will measure in. My club has already confirmed they will be offering Micro classes at their shows from Jan. Let's hope this is agreed by KC. I wonder what will happen to any smalls that are remeasured and are medium? 🙊
 
There’s a dog at our club that had to have a third measure, every chance they would go medium again on a fourth.

I’m surprised clubs can afford to offer four graded runs in current circumstances where classes are very often in single figures, bit different back in the day when entries were much larger.

I’m a bit conflicted about any measures like this aimed at reducing progression numbers. A win is a win and you still have to beat the course, but it’s also true that you can easily now choose to attend shows with very low entry numbers in graded classes and win up as the only clear, when that same dog would be well outclassed at a big premier show. Nothing wrong with it at all except that I’ve known people be frustrated or upset when they hit a skills or speed gap at about G5.

Sort of counting myself in that before it sounds too judgeypants, I had one plateau on speed in G6 at the end of her career and my current G7 although holding his own in regular classes is usually about 8 seconds off winning pace in champ with no prospect of making that time up.
 
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