The art of deep littering

[Keira 8888]

Happy Friday darlings,

Hope you are all well.

I am contemplating Princes bed for the winter and am tempted between deep littering with shavings or a wood pellet bed that I skip out during the week and muck out at the wknds.

I’m really tempted by the deep litter option as I love him to have a good deep, warm bed. Only prob is, I’m not quite sure how to do it!

Is it just a matter of building and building with more shavings each week? I’m worried about his feet being in contact with a urine saturated base. Any tips from expert deep litterers wound be hugely appreciated!!!!

Thank you guys,
Keira and Prince x

 

[ycbm]

I just used to add more so the top was always dry. If they pee in one place you might need to do a partial hump removal, but I found taking the wet out every 6-8 weeks was fine except that if you leave it that long it's a big job to do.

I didn't find much difference between shavings and pellets for deep bedding.
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[Red-1]

I do the once a week full muck out but just skip out and tidy up during the week. To me, the key is to use enough bedding. If the bed is thick enough, and made so it doesn't slip around (so packed down and properly levelled) then I have had numerous horses like this with no issues.

I have used shavings, rape straw and hemp like this.

I also make a point of removing a whole bank each week. Basically, the wet middle gets taken out and replaced by a bank, then the new gets put into the bank and a bit of slightly older covers the bank so they don't find it and dig it.

If you don't do a different bank each week, the sides get full of fungus and can cause breathing issues.

I also poo pick regularly when they are in. If they stomp the poos round, the bed gets damp. We do last pooos at 8.30pm and then next at 6am. They are usually out in the day, but if in, they never go more than about 4 hours before being cleaned and squared off again.

If it is a brand new bed, it can help to lightly spray with water to help if form into an actual bed, as opposed to quick sand. I also keep all hay out of the bed, by using nets and trugs or a haybar. As .ong as the bed is tramped down flat, and it is thick enough, then it will last the week. If any wet patches come to the surface I take them out, whatever the day is, and know that the bed needs to be deeper still next time it is made.

My beds look pretty white, and you could sit down in them without getting a wet backside. If the bed feels generally wet and tired, I take more out than I think I need to at next muck out. It is usually because the bed wasn't packed down and made firm, so the poos mix in.

I generally use 3 bales a week on a horse that is in a lot, 2 if they are out a lot. Many people tall me that is too much, but that is what I find I need to use to keep my beds looking fresh.

 

[AmyMay]

You have to start off with a really good deep bed (so depending on the size of your stable, at least five bales of shaving). And then a minimum of one a week on top.

 

[smolmaus]

The rescue yard I'm on does what I think is semi-deep littering? It works well even for the horses we have who absolutely trash their beds and theoretically saves on shavings volume in the long run. Wet does get taken out every day (unless they are very short staffed) so there is no "big" muck out left for one poor sod to do once a week but usually it is only the wet that has "risen" to the top layer of the bed so it's minimal. The rest is dug through and mixed with fresh shavings.

The only picture I can find currently is in the background of Stan being disgusting so apologies but this is the standard depth of bed needed for it (massive).

 

[outdoor girl]

I deep litter 2 of my 3 and they're all on shavings. The boy wees in the same place all the time but he drags his feet through the rest of his bed so he's mucked out very easily every day and a fresh bale added once a week. The girls are dug out each week and a fresh bale put on if they need it. Their beds are relatively tidy, in fact one of them does all her poo at one end and uses the other end for her sleeping quarters. All the banks are shaken up every day, mainly because one of the girls insists on piling her bed in a bank and then lying on it and the other one just walks through hers. I do have a reputation for being a bit OTT about my beds though and I love big banks and lovely thick beds even though there is matting down as well.

 

[ihatework]

Wood pellets are great for this type of system.

Set the bed up with a good thick (2-3 inches) of soaked wood pellets and then a decent covering of your preferred bedding over the top (personally I find good straw the best).

Unless you have a complete and utter minger, the wet won’t come through in a week. So skip religiously in the week then on the weekend, pull the top bedding up the sides/bank it and dig out the solid wet pellets. Once you know where the main wet spots are you can just tip in a sack of unsoaked pellets before relaying the top bed.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I'm doing as Ihatework describes but with laysoft instead of straw. I've got a good thick covering of wood pellets then a nice dry layer of laysoft on top. The laysoft (like ethos) let's the wet drain through easily so the top of the bed always stays dry.

I find the laysoft really easy and simple to muck out. Just like the ethos but cheaper.

Each week I pull back the dry top on his wee spot, dig out the soaked wood pellets and replace that section, putting the dry laysoft back on top. I do a big proper dig out of the whole base twice a year. Just done the whole base this week and there were large sections where the pellet base wasn't completely used yet and would have lasted a bit longer.

 

[milliepops]

I also do what IHW has described, I use pellets and then a bale of bedmax thrown on the top.

 

[Keira 8888]

Fab! Thanks so much guys, lots to think about here. Luckily Prince has a very obvious wee spot so I will dig this out each week and replace with new pellets.

Only question I have now is about banks. I have never done them - is the primary purpose of them comfort? Is it just a matter of building up the sides?

 

[milliepops]

I haven't used banks for years and years now, they were supposed to be to stop a horse getting cast against the wall but to be effective they really need to be enormous and tightly packed so I just don't bother. I used to use a bank as "storage" of fresh bedding to pull down when needed but these days I just chuck a fresh bale in whenever it's needed and spread it all over.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Only question I have now is about banks. I have never done them - is the primary purpose of them comfort? Is it just a matter of building up the sides?

Controversial question alert!

I have banks but only on two walls and they are more 'storage of an emergency shavings supply' so I'm not concerned they arent there. Mine likes using one of them as a pillow (when he isnt using his poo) so that one is semi-permanent.

 

[cowgirl16]

What type of floor do you have? Coz I've found this doesn't work on rubber mats. Best deep litter I had was on a dirt (chalky) floor.

 

[meleeka]

Most people are describing semi-deep littering which is a happy compromise. Full keep litter only requires the wet to be taken out once or twice a year. We used to do this on straw on one of my years, but i’d only do it now if I had access to a mini digger! I did deep litter with pellets a couple of years ago and that worked really well. The base of the bed was like a huge biscuit, properly compacted and I just scraped the wee patch off the top when it started to come through .

To do any type of deep litter you need enough clean bed on the top to prevent the base getting disturbed. It’s more than you might use with mats normally, but it pays to have as deep a bed as you can.

 

[Keira 8888]

Most people are describing semi-deep littering which is a happy compromise. Full keep litter only requires the wet to be taken out once or twice a year. We used to do this on straw on one of my years, but i’d only do it now if I had access to a mini digger! I did deep litter with pellets a couple of years ago and that worked really well. The base of the bed was like a huge biscuit, properly compacted and I just scraped the wee patch off the top when it started to come through .

Now this is the kind of bed I’m looking for!!!! I want to create that “biscuit base” - if I were to lay a completely new pellet bed, to achieve the “biscuit” in time, how many bags of pellets do you think I should start with? I want to build a huge pellet mattress xx

To do any type of deep litter you need enough clean bed on the top to prevent the base getting disturbed. It’s more than you might use with mats normally, but it pays to have as deep a bed as you can.

 

[Cloball]

I've not done it with pellets or for a good few years it you need a fair amount of shavings to start off. Pack down and water in. I want to say 3 for the base and then 4 for the bed?
I used to use the banks as spare bedding and rotate. Chuck the top bed up and mix with new shavings to dry and pull down another bank to be the new top bed etc. Then the whole lot gets get out in spring and the floors dried and scrubbed.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

My mare has a “pee corner” so I would pop wood pellets down with shavings over the top then just shavings every where else. Then during the week I would just take out the poo and then take all wet out and put new down on the weekend. Saved me so much time and shavings.

 

[HorseMaid]

I did a proper deep litter bed for my old tb mare, using wood pellets. It was years ago, from memory I think I may have started off with about 12 bags (soaked). I skipped the poo off the top, left the rest and chucked a fresh bag of pellets in every week. If a patch got completely sodden I'd dig that tiny bit out and fill with fresh pellets, but the rest of it was undisturbed and sort of formed into what I can only describe as a wooden mattress - it held itself together and was firm but with a bit of bounce ?. It was down from about october/ November until february ish then I just barrowed the lot out which didn't actually take that long.

Timely post as ours are likely to be in a fair bit this winter for the first time in years and I'm deciding what to do!

 

[MuddyMonster]

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[MuddyMonster]

I use wood pellets and semi deep litter as I only skip out in the week. Swear by it! I wouldn't like to do a full deep litter system - seems far too much hard work to dig out at the end of winter

His bed is probably about half the stable & I do have rubber matting underneath the bedding but I don't do banks.

I think I used 10 bags to set it up & add one dry bag a week on average.

In the week I just skip out the poos and any obvious wet that has risen to the top, sweep the good bedding back & any dirty bedding that has gotten mixed in with hay or water on out, hang my haynets & do my waters. It takes 10-15 minutes maximum, most mornings.

On one of the weekend days I'll dig out the wet, relay the bed flat and add a new bag of dry pellets to the middle of the bed - which is his wet area.

I will admit, I'm not OCD about his bed - as long as its clean, dry & hygienic that'll do me I'm not bothered by the 'whiteness' of it, if its spirit level flat or picking up every little tiny poo particle ... I appreciate that's not everyone's liking though!

 

[PurBee]

Fab! Thanks so much guys, lots to think about here. Luckily Prince has a very obvious wee spot so I will dig this out each week and replace with new pellets.

Only question I have now is about banks. I have never done them - is the primary purpose of them comfort? Is it just a matter of building up the sides?

I used to do banks but i do a bed thats thicker at the back and thinner at the bottom - 10 inches compact deep at back to 4 inches compact st the front. The horses like this and dont cast themselves, like they can on a level bed.

I use pellets _ loads, 12 bags initial start with 3 bags shavings on top. (Larger stable 2 horses sharing open stable arrangement) Then dig out pee, regularly, replace with pellets, and keep building bed with pellets added then more shavings. Wee doesnt come through pellets like it did for shavings.
I use tractor and trailer and haul the base pee layer out every 5-8 weeks-ish, depending on season.

I accidentally started doing this bed as the horses always seems to end up pushing bedding further towards the back and thinning the front, creating a natural slope for sleeping on.

 

[SEL]

Just dug out 3 deep litter beds after moving my horses.
Mucky mare was on wood pellets. The back bank was her favourite wee spot and that was solid and needed a fork to loosen it off. All the wet had sunk to the bottom though and it didn't really smell. It was laid end of Sept 2020.

The other 2 were on Pro bed and there was a lot more volume to dig out but less heavy. Quite a mouldy smell on the bottom layers but not wet.

Poo taken out daily and the odd really bad wetspot dug out but that was it. Broadly 3 bags of bedding per fortnight

 

[atropa]

I tend to do deep litter for mine although once I've dug out this years I'm hoping to move to full muck out everyday.
The best ever deep litter bed I had was a mix of wood pellets and shavings on the bottom to create the base, then an additional deep layer of shavings on top. The top layer stayed clean and dry and I could physically sweep it back off the bottom layer when mucking out. The bottom layer was also deep enough that the pee never seemed to properly rise up through it. Dont think I've ever been able to replicate it since ?

 

[TwyfordM]

I do this year round. Wood pellet base, thicker in the areas she tends to pee, shavings on top.
Skip out poo with bucket and gloves and tidy up for most of the week. Then give a really thorough muck out one day a wee.

You do need a fairly deep bed but I don’t tend to find it ever looks or feels wet on top - and she has cushings so she does pee a lot

 

[Keira 8888]

I tend to do deep litter for mine although once I've dug out this years I'm hoping to move to full muck out everyday.
The best ever deep litter bed I had was a mix of wood pellets and shavings on the bottom to create the base, then an additional deep layer of shavings on top. The top layer stayed clean and dry and I could physically sweep it back off the bottom layer when mucking out. The bottom layer was also deep enough that the pee never seemed to properly rise up through it. Dont think I've ever been able to replicate it since ?

That sounds amazing!! Just what I want to do! Am going to try and replicate this at the wknd! X

 

[Keira 8888]

I do this year round. Wood pellet base, thicker in the areas she tends to pee, shavings on top.
Skip out poo with bucket and gloves and tidy up for most of the week. Then give a really thorough muck out one day a wee.

You do need a fairly deep bed but I don’t tend to find it ever looks or feels wet on top - and she has cushings so she does pee a lot

I’m so glad you use bucket and gloves! I do this too and it seems far more efficent than the fork! Strangely satisfying too!

 

[TwyfordM]

I’m so glad you use bucket and gloves! I do this too and it seems far more efficent than the fork! Strangely satisfying too!

Definitely quicker and saves lots of bedding too!

 

[palo1]

Such a useful and timely thread for me Thank you! I have 3 horses using a large open 'stable' (it's a 15x15 inside an open barn). Hay is in the barn which has a large open front onto a hard yard which then leads to a smallish winter turnout paddock. Sometimes if the mud is grim the turnout gate is shut and the horses are on the yard/barn for a day or so. They can trot and canter round the yard and do so quite happily so they have a fair bit of space. The stable is literally so that there is somewhere dry and comfortable if they want to lie down.

Of course, they all love to pee and poo in there...Previously we have had rape straw on the rubber matting and that has been horrible to deal with but ok. At the end of last year I turned to shavings which was much nicer and had a semi-deep litter but I don't think it was deep enough to start with and I appear to have 3 serial 'poo mashers' and horses that like to dig holes to deal with!! I guess that is a form of enrichment?

So this year I am considering my options...I want dust free and a bed that will be relatively quick morning and night to do as well as cope with 3 big horses who all seem to use it relentlessly as a loo. I don't want to have to worry about mould/ammonia or anything else that could cause a respiratory issue even though the stable is never closed and loads of air in the barn.

I could go 'bare' as it were as they do have a field (very muddy at times though) and the rubber mats 'should' be comfy enough without much bed. But I know that they don't really like sleeping directly on rubber mats and that if one wees in there it would be grim/smelly for anyone else wanting a snooze.

Usually the bed in the stable is the full width and about 1/2 the depth of the area - definitely big enough for our 16.3'' to lie down on.

Should I dig out what is left from last year - big flake shavings, take out the whole lot and start again with wood pellets or adopt an entirely different strategy?

I have heard that I should be looking at 1 bale of shavings per horse per week for a permanent bed but last year about 1 bale per week total was just about keeping things dry and clean. I want a bit better than that this year!!

 

[HashRouge]

Wood pellets are great for this type of system.

Set the bed up with a good thick (2-3 inches) of soaked wood pellets and then a decent covering of your preferred bedding over the top (personally I find good straw the best).

Unless you have a complete and utter minger, the wet won’t come through in a week. So skip religiously in the week then on the weekend, pull the top bedding up the sides/bank it and dig out the solid wet pellets. Once you know where the main wet spots are you can just tip in a sack of unsoaked pellets before relaying the top bed.

This is what I do and it is super easy and the beds stay nice and clean! My mare is a bit of a skank in the stable but she's pretty clean on this set up. I do a wood pellet base and a thick layer of straw over the top. I'm mucking out with a head torch in the week as we've no electric lights, so I really like this set up!

 

[HashRouge]

Such a useful and timely thread for me Thank you! I have 3 horses using a large open 'stable' (it's a 15x15 inside an open barn). Hay is in the barn which has a large open front onto a hard yard which then leads to a smallish winter turnout paddock. Sometimes if the mud is grim the turnout gate is shut and the horses are on the yard/barn for a day or so. They can trot and canter round the yard and do so quite happily so they have a fair bit of space. The stable is literally so that there is somewhere dry and comfortable if they want to lie down.

Of course, they all love to pee and poo in there...Previously we have had rape straw on the rubber matting and that has been horrible to deal with but ok. At the end of last year I turned to shavings which was much nicer and had a semi-deep litter but I don't think it was deep enough to start with and I appear to have 3 serial 'poo mashers' and horses that like to dig holes to deal with!! I guess that is a form of enrichment?

So this year I am considering my options...I want dust free and a bed that will be relatively quick morning and night to do as well as cope with 3 big horses who all seem to use it relentlessly as a loo. I don't want to have to worry about mould/ammonia or anything else that could cause a respiratory issue even though the stable is never closed and loads of air in the barn.

I could go 'bare' as it were as they do have a field (very muddy at times though) and the rubber mats 'should' be comfy enough without much bed. But I know that they don't really like sleeping directly on rubber mats and that if one wees in there it would be grim/smelly for anyone else wanting a snooze.

Usually the bed in the stable is the full width and about 1/2 the depth of the area - definitely big enough for our 16.3'' to lie down on.

Should I dig out what is left from last year - big flake shavings, take out the whole lot and start again with wood pellets or adopt an entirely different strategy?

I have heard that I should be looking at 1 bale of shavings per horse per week for a permanent bed but last year about 1 bale per week total was just about keeping things dry and clean. I want a bit better than that this year!!

I'd try wood pellet base, straw on top. Semi-deep litter should work pretty well I reckon. I've been very impressed with straw/ wood pellets combo.