The dealer that cannot be named

Abacus said:
I don’t think you are correct here. The sales agreement with her is that the horse is sold l, full amount paid and therefore is the possession of the owner, on the agreement that it can be returned if not suitable. I bought horses from her several years ago (both of which I kept) and this was definitely the agreement.

This is absolutely not a loan situation.
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Apizz2019 said:
I shouldn't feel as strongly as I do about this as I've not been directly affected, however, as previously noted (comments/threads closed/removed) I have seen this play out first hand with one individual who was on the same yard as me, and with a friend who had to wait weeks for a refund which was received in dribs and drabs - the usual I'm in hospital, bank account is frozen, transfer limit etc excuses nonsense.

I stated a former employee had publicly said she who shall not be named purchased cheap from across the sea and turned them around in a few days, despite claims of horses being owned from birth, full history known etc.

Yet, almost everything single comment I made, despite on one occasion having a screenshot of a message relating to monies owed (details blanked out), was refuted and removed.

She hasnt had employees, ever.
She hasn't ever not refunded a customer.
She has never willingly delayed refunds.
She has not sold dangerous horses.
She has not sold horses with undisclosed issues, physical and otherwise.
She has not used customers money to bankroll her business.
She doesn't import horses and turn around in a matter of days.

And yet here we are, countless individuals, all with the same stories that prove each and every point made by so many of us, some luckier than others, some not so lucky and left with lifelong injuries. And there's the horses to consider. Passed from pillar to post like a tub of sweets being passed around the dinner table.

No care for animal or human alike.

The saddest thing about this is every attempt to call out this appalling (and criminal) behaviour has been shut down, endless gaslighting of complainants, and of anyone who dared to utter a single word that wasn't blowing in the direction of being positive.

She who shall not be named has thrown the slander/libel/defamation card about and everyone with the power to do so has pandered to this manipulative behaviour, when in reality truth is an absolute defence and she wouldn't get a case off the ground on this alone, much less find 150k to take it all the way. A legal professional would laugh her out of the door in any case!


I'm mad, and upset, for every single horse and person who has been affected by her appalling behaviour.

I hope she suffers. I hope she never has the opportunity to set eyes on a horse again, and I hope this follows her like a nasty smell for the rest of her life.

I'm sorry to all her victims.
I'm sorry people didn't listen.
i'm sorry you were ridiculed and shut down.

We must do better!
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I could not have put this better myself. Thank you.
 
AdorableAlice said:
All it was is an equine base ponzi scheme.

Quite frankly anyone sending 13k over to an unknown third party for an unseen, unvetted and un tried horse, is bonkers in my view. Maybe I have been on the planet too long and don't understand modern horse buying, but the whole set up stinks, it is unbelievable the amounts of money that changed hands.
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She didn’t like you to view the horses. Just sent lots of videos and push buying to take them on trial. Don’t denigrate the people who have been done over or injured ☹️. Calling them or the situation bonkers isn’t helpful.
 
AdorableAlice said:
All it was is an equine base ponzi scheme.

Quite frankly anyone sending 13k over to an unknown third party for an unseen, unvetted and un tried horse, is bonkers in my view. Maybe I have been on the planet too long and don't understand modern horse buying, but the whole set up stinks, it is unbelievable the amounts of money that changed hands.
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Because she used to have a good reputation so was deemed as one of the very few trustworthy dealers anyway. Couple that with no negative reviews as any negative reviews on every platform were shut down/removed so this made her appear to be almost god-like to buyers.

She is a master manipulator and was at the top of her game. I've seen her game first hand and it was a good one.
 
Out of curiosity I just read back through my previous messages with her when I bought my two (2022). Totally different to the person we now see described. She was responsive, slightly pushy on the trial but not terrible, even got back in touch a while after I had each of them to see how things were going. There was quite a funny exchange about her own horse, and things like her asking for photos of one of mine to send to the previous owner who had asked after him. I'm not seeking to minimise anything she has done, but it seems to me that she has changed significantly from a decent dealer into a corrupt one. How terribly sad, primarily for the horses, buyers and owners, but also for her - she had a choice of paths and took the wrong one.
 
Abacus said:
Out of curiosity I just read back through my previous messages with her when I bought my two (2022). Totally different to the person we now see described. She was responsive, slightly pushy on the trial but not terrible, even got back in touch a while after I had each of them to see how things were going. There was quite a funny exchange about her own horse, and things like her asking for photos of one of mine to send to the previous owner who had asked after him. I'm not seeking to minimise anything she has done, but it seems to me that she has changed significantly from a decent dealer into a corrupt one. How terribly sad, primarily for the horses, buyers and owners, but also for her - she had a choice of paths and took the wrong one.
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I believe it's called the greed and arrogance path. She got too big for her boots. Simple as that.
 
For some reason, a lot of posts about her have started appearing on my Facebook feed. No idea why, I've never had anything to do with her.
 
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Apizz2019 said:
any
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Mollysmum said:
She didn’t like you to view the horses. Just sent lots of videos and push buying to take them on trial. Don’t denigrate the people who have been done over or injured ☹️. Calling them or the situation bonkers isn’t helpful.
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Well said. Really feeling quite over folk who's contribution to this awful situation is to congratulate themselves that they wouldn't have been caught out. It's pretty easy to be wise when the full picture is known.
 
Apizz2019 said:
I shouldn't feel as strongly as I do about this as I've not been directly affected, however, as previously noted (comments/threads closed/removed) I have seen this play out first hand with one individual who was on the same yard as me, and with a friend who had to wait weeks for a refund which was received in dribs and drabs - the usual I'm in hospital, bank account is frozen, transfer limit etc excuses nonsense.

I stated a former employee had publicly said she who shall not be named purchased cheap from across the sea and turned them around in a few days, despite claims of horses being owned from birth, full history known etc.

Yet, almost everything single comment I made, despite on one occasion having a screenshot of a message relating to monies owed (details blanked out), was refuted and removed.

She hasnt had employees, ever.
She hasn't ever not refunded a customer.
She has never willingly delayed refunds.
She has not sold dangerous horses.
She has not sold horses with undisclosed issues, physical and otherwise.
She has not used customers money to bankroll her business.
She doesn't import horses and turn around in a matter of days.

And yet here we are, countless individuals, all with the same stories that prove each and every point made by so many of us, some luckier than others, some not so lucky and left with lifelong injuries. And there's the horses to consider. Passed from pillar to post like a tub of sweets being passed around the dinner table.

No care for animal or human alike.

The saddest thing about this is every attempt to call out this appalling (and criminal) behaviour has been shut down, endless gaslighting of complainants, and of anyone who dared to utter a single word that wasn't blowing in the direction of being positive.

She who shall not be named has thrown the slander/libel/defamation card about and everyone with the power to do so has pandered to this manipulative behaviour, when in reality truth is an absolute defence and she wouldn't get a case off the ground on this alone, much less find 150k to take it all the way. A legal professional would laugh her out of the door in any case!


I'm mad, and upset, for every single horse and person who has been affected by her appalling behaviour.

I hope she suffers. I hope she never has the opportunity to set eyes on a horse again, and I hope this follows her like a nasty smell for the rest of her life.

I'm sorry to all her victims.
I'm sorry people didn't listen.
i'm sorry you were ridiculed and shut down.

We must do better!
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As another who had endless comments/threads deleted I’m with you all the way. Well said.
 
Mollysmum said:
She didn’t like you to view the horses. Just sent lots of videos and push buying to take them on trial. Don’t denigrate the people who have been done over or injured ☹️. Calling them or the situation bonkers isn’t helpful.
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I rest my case. Not allowed to see or try the horse but happy to pay vast sums for it. I sympathise for those caught up in the scam, but if her trading methods did not raise alarm bells from the outset they certainly should have.
 
Abacus said:
Out of curiosity I just read back through my previous messages with her when I bought my two (2022). Totally different to the person we now see described. She was responsive, slightly pushy on the trial but not terrible, even got back in touch a while after I had each of them to see how things were going. There was quite a funny exchange about her own horse, and things like her asking for photos of one of mine to send to the previous owner who had asked after him. I'm not seeking to minimise anything she has done, but it seems to me that she has changed significantly from a decent dealer into a corrupt one. How terribly sad, primarily for the horses, buyers and owners, but also for her - she had a choice of paths and took the wrong one.
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I had a horse on trial from her which was probably in 2020 or 2021, the horse was reasonably nice on the ground, but then it turned out to have an odd hormonal issue, and had been used as a broodmare extensively (according to vet). It definitely wasn’t the horse she described in the ad (been there, done it, etc, no mention of being a broodmare for an extensive period) and it all seemed a bit off, so we returned it next day. To her credit, we got a full refund same day, but evidently, the money got to her.

ETA: after the vetting, she insisted that the horse had never been used as a broodmare. It was just odd.
 
New Forests Rock said:
Passport came with pony on my trial, the poor boy had been through the Irish Horse Welfare Trust so the usual lies about "family home since a foal" continued my 🚩feelings.
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That is weird. They are a charity and wouldn't be selling on their rescues surely? I thought registered charities over here still retain ownership regardless if they are rehomed to suitable owners. :(
 
ester said:
Also a lot of these horses shes sending out on trial she's not the actual owner of at the time as she hasn't refunded the previous person (or person s
ester said:
Also a lot of these horses shes sending out on trial she's not the actual owner of at the time as she hasn't refunded the previous person (or person before that etc etc)
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Does she have them on sale and return from Ireland?
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Mollysmum said:
She didn’t like you to view the horses. Just sent lots of videos and push buying to take them on trial. Don’t denigrate the people who have been done over or injured ☹️. Calling them or the situation bonkers isn’t helpful.
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Well I'm sorry but the situation is bonkers!

Theres no other word to describe someone that money has gone to her head to this degree and has ripped off and manipulated this many people than absolutely bonkers TBF. She's a master manipulator for sure but to send over 10k to someone you've never even spoken to on the phone, for a horse you've never seen, is nuts.

I get people think they've got more protection under distance selling regs but they've also got more chance of getting something wildly unsuitable if they never see it. Videos and photos can be doctored so so easily as well. She never would have adopted this insane, cruel, deceptive, but admittedly apparently pretty lucrative, business model if people just said no to buying sight unseen. Transferring the whole cost of the horse means it's not really a trial so much as straight up purchasing it and it's so so risky

I know I'm going to get hate for this and don't get me wrong, I do feel sorry for the people who've lost money, but you don't treat living animals like Amazon returns, it's crazy.
 
I am neither novice nor bonkers but I bought Lottie unseen from Ireland because the dealer was widely reputed to be absolutely straightforward and honest. And indeed proved to be exactly that. There are no risk free ways to buy horses and I've been stung twice despite viewing and vetting. So I decided to buy based on good reputation instead. SWMNBN did not just have no bad reviews - she had many, many glowing ones. Including from the admin of the DD site who openly said her next horse would deffo come from there. And many others. That's the bit I actually can't get my head around. Were they taken in? Complicit? How was she so influential?
 
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Apizz2019 said:
As she's not a LTD Co, she is personally liable for this, so at least can't dissolve the company and write off the debts and start again like unscrupulous companies do.

Let's hope she has assets that can be seized and she's left high and dry.
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Has anyone been on the Land Registry and seen if she owns her house and stable yard?
 
AdorableAlice said:
I rest my case. Not allowed to see or try the horse but happy to pay vast sums for it. I sympathise for those caught up in the scam, but if her trading methods did not raise alarm bells from the outset they certainly should have.
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Sanctimonious at best. Let’s go for victim blaming. This was a well known dealer with a previously good reputation. Easy to stand on the sidelines stating what you would or would not have done. Basic human nature is to trust people.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Theres no other word to describe someone that money has gone to her head to this degree and has ripped off and manipulated this many people than absolutely bonkers TBF. She's a master manipulator for sure but to send over 10k to someone you've never even spoken to on the phone, for a horse you've never seen, is nuts.
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This I do take issue with. People buy unseen all the time - and yes, there can be issues with that but there are many stories on here that show it also works. Neither are all of these buyers novices. She has done things no one would honestly anticipate. As an example I have never come across someone who has sold the same horse 6 times over and only delivered it to one person. Neither do buyers imagine a horse will go from trial to trial to trial - because as an owner you would find that unacceptable. The stories from some of the sellers demonstrate that she simply didn't tell them their horse wasn't on the yard anymore, or how many trials it had been on.

Assuming buyers have never spoken to her is also a leap. Using my example, I've spoken to her on the phone, I've met her and some of her staff when I loaded the horse we took on trial. Like many con artists she is very personable. And has been noted elsewhere, there are no/few bad reviews and she is VERY good at getting any of those removed.

Victim blaming really doesn't help.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Well I'm sorry but the situation is bonkers!

Theres no other word to describe someone that money has gone to her head to this degree and has ripped off and manipulated this many people than absolutely bonkers TBF. She's a master manipulator for sure but to send over 10k to someone you've never even spoken to on the phone, for a horse you've never seen, is nuts.

I get people think they've got more protection under distance selling regs but they've also got more chance of getting something wildly unsuitable if they never see it. Videos and photos can be doctored so so easily as well. She never would have adopted this insane, cruel, deceptive, but admittedly apparently pretty lucrative, business model if people just said no to buying sight unseen. Transferring the whole cost of the horse means it's not really a trial so much as straight up purchasing it and it's so so risky

I know I'm going to get hate for this and don't get me wrong, I do feel sorry for the people who've lost money, but you don't treat living animals like Amazon returns, it's crazy.
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I’m not bonkers as you like to call us. I bought a horse from Ireland unseen, untried, asked 100’s of questions and got lots of videos. He’s almost perfect! I say almost because no horse is. He is exactly as described in his advertisement, unlike the ones from this person whose descriptions are a pack of lies.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Maybe it is time for BHS and other bodies to put together some education and advertising to help protect novice purchasers.
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Trouble is, and I have come across this with more than one species. People won't listen.

It wasn't that long ago since I spent considerable time and energy trying to persuade Mr and Mrs X not to buy said animal from Mrs Y. The ultimate irony was that I then got the "we can't cope with this animal and seller won't tale him back will you have him!!"
Needless to say in their opinion the whole thing was the animal's fault.
Yet another poor creature with an uncertain future because people have to have what they want,no matter what.
I am just so furious at all this.
 
Johnny's Star said:
She strongly deterred viewings, pushing the trial option. Extensive videos offered. Consumer rights for distance selling are quite robust, so most customers will have seen the trial as offering a chance to get to know the horse better than a one off trial viewing and ride, with a safety net of the return clearly agreed. Customers will have seen a glowing set of reviews and nothing on the dodgy dealers groups. It's now become evident that return from trial was commonplace and repeated, something customers genuinely didn't realise, let alone that simultaneous payments were taken and held from multiple individuals for the same horse. So yes, many buying without in person viewing. Having had some terrible experiences (and fractures) from trying horses from private sellers I'd suggest that there's no one right way to find a good horse to buy, people are just doing their best, following recommendations and reviews, and being wary. This dealer took in many experienced and sensible people. Please don't blame the victims! 😊
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I agree with this. There is only so much one can do to saeguard oneself when buying a horse.
 
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Littlest Hobo said:
Trouble is, and I have come across this with more than one species. People won't listen.

It wasn't that long ago since I spent considerable time and energy trying to persuade Mr and Mrs X not to buy said animal from Mrs Y. The ultimate irony was that I then got the "we can't cope with this animal and seller won't tale him back will you have him!!"
Needless to say in their opinion the whole thing was the animal's fault.
Yet another poor creature with an uncertain future because people have to have what they want,no matter what.
I am just so furious at all this.
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But people cant listen when there is nothing to listen to.

Every post on here was either shut down or heavily censored, the same with Facebook, her online reviews etc. She was promoted heavily by selling sites, Whickr being one of a few - in fact Whickr promoted her business 24 hours ago!

Those who do not understand, or want to understand, fall for the 'I'm going to sue' line, panic, and remove things that I believe in this case could have helped to shut this sleazy operation down long before now.

Censorship is great. Until it isn't.
 
Mollysmum said:
Sanctimonious at best. Let’s go for victim blaming. This was a well known dealer with a previously good reputation. Easy to stand on the sidelines stating what you would or would not have done. Basic human nature is to trust people.
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No it is not basic human nature to trust someone with huge sums of money for something you have no knowledge of, have not seen and do not know especially when it is a living breathing animal. I'm not bothered what you want to call me, I am not victim blaming either. The dealer is crooked and hopefully TS or the police will have enough evidence to take action.

There is a reason and meaning behind caveat emptor regardless of what you are buying. The only true victim in this unholy mess is the numerous horses that are suffering.
 
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